Mestari wrote:
Also people quoting the time they received their role pm is wild work.
Nah didn't really have any effect on the game. We all survived. Calm tf down lol
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
I wasn't going to modkill myself. Was waiting david to get mad and slip. Sometimes you fake behavior to get reactions
Sorry for being inactive, lot of real shit came up that week. It was a cool concept and it was fun to play anon. At least my DP1 reads were good lol. Mestari carried my slot hard.
Mikal wrote:
I wasn't going to modkill myself. Was waiting david to get mad and slip. Sometimes you fake behavior to get reactions
So you remind me of me when I first started playing mafia. I spent a lot of time pushing the boundaries of Mafia and was ripping on peoples emotions to get reads I could use to solve games.
At some point I had to step back and acknowledge that what I was doing was hurting peoples experience. That gaining a small edge in the game was not worth the harm I was causing to others.
This is how I see your move there. You were leveraging using rule breaks to get mod killed as a way to get an advantage in a game. Sure. Maybe such advantage existed but thats a pretty harmful way to get that potential advantage. In this game I hope you recognize that you harmed peoples experiences to the point both Town and Mafia players voiced they were willing to see the game shut down before ending because things had gone too far.
I hope you reach the same conclusion I did 15 years or so ago that certain things are not worth the harm caused even if they give advantage.
Nah didn't really have any effect on the game. We all survived. Calm tf down lol
But it could. There's no reason to ask for that information. It's outside the game of Mafia. The very desire to ask for it is an attempt to avoid conducting real behavioral analysis.
That part.
Helz wrote:
I have played 2 games on this site. Both games I was disgusted at the amount of OOG and angle shooting by players. Take that for what it is.
FWIW I completely agree. I’ll be making a thread about it soon. Our meta really needs to change
"Kohai, your entrance to the thread was legendary, you had a solve and a winning PoE right when you showed up, super impressive stuff, even more so considering it wasn't even your objective!!" - Zrein
Lunatic wrote:
Mestari wrote:
Also people quoting the time they received their role pm is wild work.
Nah didn't really have any effect on the game. We all survived. Calm tf down lol
No I agree. That was trash.
I stopped it early because yes, I PM’d people in the order in which they were signed up didn’t matter. So that wasn’t an issue
Exact time was an issue because PMing vanillas was piss-easy; there’s little delay. When there’s a rather large delay between two players it heavily implies they have different roles
Also, I don’t really regret allowing the anon thing. In hindsight I probably should’ve banned it immediately, but people were saying “I’m losing interest in the game” and shit. First time hosting on a new site, I did not want to be a prick and I thought people were actually annoyed with the anon/rules.
So, hopefully this game is a learning experience and people will try obeying the rules (especially for anonymous games). I personally was so frustrated this game that I don’t think I’m going to be hosting here again. Unless it’s extremely simple fully-open setups that are impossible to angleshoot.
Like the following:
Lazy Town Citizen x3
Lazy Town Sheriff x1
Lazy Mafia Mafioso x1
Lazy Mafia Godfather x1
^ none of the roles have any abilities; mafia has day chat, there are no nights
I’ve been playing mafia on this site since the early DDO era, around 2011, and the culture back then was already well‑established. Angle‑shooting, pressure tactics, and pushing behavioral reactions have always been part of the meta. That’s not new, and it’s not alignment‑indicative for me. The mod‑kill leverage thing is something I would’ve done as either town or scum. People who know my history know that’s just my playstyle.
The way I see it, you put rules in place for a reason. If the mod allows something, I’m going to use it. If the mod doesn’t allow it, I try not to. I’m not responsible for how other players emotionally respond to legal plays. If someone chooses to get frustrated, that’s their choice, not something I control. If the mod answers a dumb question thay affects the game, thats their choice. My job is to operate within the boundaries of the game, not manage other people’s reactions to pressure or plays that are allowed within the ruleset. I've never been one to care about intention. You have a framework for how the game functions and ill use anything I can to win. If you dont want that within the framework, adjust it in rules or in the game when it gets to much.
And honestly, this community has always had players who push limits and players who don’t. Anna is one of the kindest people here and still gets lynched every DP. Meanwhile, some of the strongest players on the site have always been the ones who test boundaries and apply pressure and stay alive to the end most of the time. Tone isn’t alignment indicative. Niceness isn’t alignment indicative. Effectiveness is what matters to me. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it blows up in my face. But ill use any resource I have.
At the end of the day, I’m playing the same way I’ve always played: within the rules, consistently across alignments, and in a style that’s been part of this site’s meta for over a decade. If someone doesn’t like that style, that’s fine, but it doesn’t make it unethical, or out of line. It just means we come from different metas.
David is a prime example of that. He was crashing out and i knew I could push his buttons until he slipped or got annoyed to the spot he would give up. I still could have got killed the last day phase as I was far from clear. But the out was for me to constantly badger him and get him to crash out. He could have chose to ignore that and mafia still had a good chance of winning. Prob 60/40. People will disagree with that. But its been around for as long as I've been here
Even tim was not sold i was town. I knew i was right so thats the way I had to get people to listen to me.
And I was right.
Mestari wrote:
Nah didn't really have any effect on the game. We all survived. Calm tf down lol
But it could. There's no reason to ask for that information. It's outside the game of Mafia. The very desire to ask for it is an attempt to avoid conducting real behavioral analysis.
Mafia could just lie about it. Also I wouldn't have lynched anyone outright for it. I am very aware people receiving info at different times could be a mod thing. It would maybe contribute a bit into a scum read but I will always factor behavior into lynching someone. Its like 90% of what I was arguing with pie about EOD. Also it was the beginning of the phase, at the very least I figure it could get people active and talking, which it did. So you are welcome for generating activity.
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Magoroth wrote:
So, hopefully this game is a learning experience and people will try obeying the rules
No one was breaking fucking rules, if you had applied inconsistent answers about rules. You can't expect people to not guess at people's identities, and factor them into analysis. Impossible. We do that every game. At most you can expect us to RP about it which I tried to do and just refer to people as their in game name but if someone asks me why I scum read someone, and a behavior from a past game indicates them being scum to me, I should be able to point that out. Forcing town to like and convolute reasons for scum reading people is retarded. Its why I identified caine having a different play style this time then last time. Dude didn't have to tell us he was kohai for it to be obvious he was kohai. Not to mention the fact he kept fucking up and posting from his other account despite crying about breaking the rules ever five seconds.
Yall need to get your panties out of a bunch about the "rule break" bull shit. Have less shitty rules if you want less rule breaks.
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
No I agree. That was trash.
Dont give a fuck you both can cry me a god damn river. Bitches.
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
And that's all I need to hear to give up on this community. It's been fun.
Honestly I think it’s unfair to place all the blame on either side.
Could Mag have been more strict? Sure. But the fact that’s a point of discussion reflects the disregard for rules.
Saying there was no rule break? Fuck no. The rules were clearly established and ignored. At some point he flatly gave direct warnings and threats of mod kills to get people in line. Even with that Mestari chose to ignore those standards and cut to referencing real identities over and over at the end game. Absolute overt rule breaking that put the host in a position of choosing to not act or destroy the game.
Then they had the balls to leverage the potential of them breaking rules to get mod killed for an in game advantage.
Lets not sit here and act like this is innocent behavior. Do you guys even understand how difficult it’s going to be for me to bring high quality players here with this kind of conduct?
The whole getting mod killed to solve the game doesn’t even mean anything. The solution to that is simple. Mod kills are treated as the lynch for the day.
As for the whole figuring out who people were, it’s hard not to factor that in your read. And Mago was leanient towards the beginning. It’s pretty obvious Kohai was Caine since the first page.
And it’s up to the mod to determine the ramifications of the questions they choose to answer. The player can asks questions as they please to try to catch people in inconsistencies
Lunatic wrote:
No I agree. That was trash.
Dont give a fuck you both can cry me a god damn river. Bitches.
Number 1. Interesting name calling. Seems all you and Mikal are capable of is trashtalking and bullying others or trying to see how much shit you two can get away with. Very sad because I actually had some amount of respect for you. I did for Mikal as well but I now see that respect was misplaced. Fucker literally has the audacity to say “no I’m going to count the game” after
Lunatic wrote:
Magoroth wrote:
So, hopefully this game is a learning experience and people will try obeying the rules
No one was breaking fucking rules, if you had applied inconsistent answers about rules. You can't expect people to not guess at people's identities, and factor them into analysis. Impossible. We do that every game. At most you can expect us to RP about it which I tried to do and just refer to people as their in game name but if someone asks me why I scum read someone, and a behavior from a past game indicates them being scum to me, I should be able to point that out. Forcing town to like and convolute reasons for scum reading people is retarded. Its why I identified caine having a different play style this time then last time. Dude didn't have to tell us he was kohai for it to be obvious he was kohai. Not to mention the fact he kept fucking up and posting from his other account despite crying about breaking the rules ever five seconds.
Yall need to get your panties out of a bunch about the "rule break" bull shit. Have less shitty rules if you want less rule breaks.
People did break the rules. Maybe stop being such a 4chan incel and using “retarded” lamguage like “getting your panties in a twist”. You sound like a 14 year old teenager with that kind of language
Also. Given the reactions on this thread. And how butthurt people are getting at me saying the rules were broken and Mikal’s audacity at saying he will count the game. Are you surprised that I was lenient? At least some players would’ve fucking left or gotten angry if I tried to enforce the rules.
Magoroth wrote:
Lunatic wrote:
Magoroth wrote:
So, hopefully this game is a learning experience and people will try obeying the rules
No one was breaking fucking rules, if you had applied inconsistent answers about rules. You can't expect people to not guess at people's identities, and factor them into analysis. Impossible. We do that every game. At most you can expect us to RP about it which I tried to do and just refer to people as their in game name but if someone asks me why I scum read someone, and a behavior from a past game indicates them being scum to me, I should be able to point that out. Forcing town to like and convolute reasons for scum reading people is retarded. Its why I identified caine having a different play style this time then last time. Dude didn't have to tell us he was kohai for it to be obvious he was kohai. Not to mention the fact he kept fucking up and posting from his other account despite crying about breaking the rules ever five seconds.
Yall need to get your panties out of a bunch about the "rule break" bull shit. Have less shitty rules if you want less rule breaks.
People did break the rules. Maybe stop being such a 4chan incel and using “retarded” lamguage like “getting your panties in a twist”. You sound like a 14 year old teenager with that kind of language
You sound like a cancel culture libtard, that’s probably worse homie
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Yes, thieves do tend to think the rules are for retards and people who obey them are just wusses.
Magoroth wrote:
Also. Given the reactions on this thread. And how butthurt people are getting at me saying the rules were broken and Mikal’s audacity at saying he will count the game. Are you surprised that I was lenient? At least some players would’ve fucking left or gotten angry if I tried to enforce the rules.
If people like Kohai want to blame their loss on that, it’s utterly bullshit. Scum played like shit that game independent of angleshooting on not.
If you want to do an anonymous game on a site this small, you have to accept the consequences like people are going to know who is who from post style. That’s just the way it is on a site this small.
And on top of that, the entire game was scumsided to begin with. You let Thoth get replaced while he was on the chopping block, and don’t give me the “He was sick bs.” That literally gave scum a major advantage on top of an already major structural advantage with the setup.
Yes yes, I admit to making hosting mistakes. There. I agree with you on that. Did not give people the right to take advantage of grey areas like the account claiming thing.
Yes yes, I admit to making hosting mistakes. There. I agree with you on that. Did not give people the right to take advantage of grey areas like the account claiming thing.
Well let’s please seperate the issue of “people will know who others are” and the overt rule breaks of people hunting and talking about who they think people are.
These are separate concepts
Number 1. Interesting name calling. Seems all you and Mikal are capable of is trashtalking and bullying others or trying to see how much shit you two can get away with. Very sad because I actually had some amount of respect for you.
You gonna flip out on me for something stupid don’t get mad when I call you out for it lol. I literally put more behavior analysis than any one in this god damn game, Carried the entire town on my back dp1, had accurate scum reads, and your gonna whine that I factored in people changing their profile before getting their role pms into the start of my play, when I just told you I wouldn’t have outright lynched anyone for it and it was mostly to get activity and reactions out of people. Yeah could care less.
Fucker literally has the audacity to say “no I’m going to count the game” after
If your gonna make a game with wierd ass rules and not going to consistently apply them, then that’s on you, or the people who signed up for your game and dedicated their free time to scum hunting and put hours of their lives into it.
Fucker literally has the audacity to say “no I’m going to count the game” after
As a host, a player having dumb reads should have no bearing on you or the game. Not sure what your point is. I am sorry you were deeply offended by Mikal’s reads?
Tried to bait information out of the host. I seriously wanted to modkill him or give scum a disguiser when he did that. Can’t believe none of you see any issue with this. And I say attempted to bait information because my reasoning why I even answered that question the way I did was, if these roles are in the game they can just privately tell they dont want ppl to use their actual accounts (because why the fuck would they?). So not only did he do something absurdly scummy where I basically have to play Mafia AS THE HOST to try to avoid slipping information, he was also straight up wrong. Good riddance!
If there is a question you don’t want to answer, don’t answer it. Simple problem simple solution. Middling should always be a last resort and for a serious rule violation not because you’re pissed off at a player. That’s a quick way to get people to never play your games.
Don’t fucking tell me what’s not possible in an anonymous game. I cut my teeth on a site where anonymous games were COMMON and people did not do any of the shit that was done this game, AND people wouldn’t reveal their own identities or try to hunt for others. One game - the second game I ever hosted - I even PM’d a player and asked him, have you figured out who anyone is yet? His response? I’m actually trying to ignore that as much as I can, but I know X and Y slots are A and B. Yes, you can actually play an anonymous game without being a douchebag. I habe done it. Please don’t try to sell that it’s not possinle because it’s a) boring and b) disprovable from my own experience.
I didn’t say it wasn’t possible, just that you can’t expect people to pretend like they don’t know who people are when the stick to the same posting styles, same posting schedules, and same behaviors. We are a small community that have played with each other for years, it’s pretty easy to tell who is who most of the time. But I was wrong on a few people still.
People did break the rules. They even stretched the rules with shit that should obviously not be okay, or that 99% I wouldn’t allow. Why the hell would I allow people to mass claik their account names and lynxh the liars? There is literally no way this isn’t angleshooting. If the rules changed midgamr, scum were operating on the assumption that the rules WOULD NOT change. So that literally creates information where there is none or should be none.
You had inconsistent answers in regards to your rules and I pointed them
out multiple times. You say one thing then immediately back track it. Again more dumb rules make more dumb rule breaks. Be consistent next time and have less arbitrary bull shit rules and it will be easier to follow them.
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Oh and also, this entire bitching is coming from one player, and that’s Kohai. That should tell you everything you need to know
Mag1cman wasn’t even trying and Casey was busy and had very little time.
Kohai always plays the victim card just like every liberal. He is a garbage player at this game. Literally a 5 year old could understand logic better than this guy, and his posts in DP3 should tell you that. It was so blatantly obvious he was scum that it was depressing to see people give him a pass for it until the very end. He can bitch and moan about angle shooting all he wants, but the reality here is that he’s a horrible player both as town and scum.
A-Llewella wrote:
Well let’s please seperate the issue of “people will know who others are” and the overt rule breaks of people hunting and talking about who they think people are.
These are separate concepts
The mod said this was okay lol. Can’t blame the player for doing what the mod allows just because they decided to change their mind later
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
