When you have an end of game with both town and mafia players saying the game should be shut down because of a players behavior there is obviously a big problem
I think that stems from Caine being salty he lost tbh magic and Casey seemed fine though
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
A-Llewella wrote:
I would challenge any person in this community to show me a game they have played where both town and scum players declared they wanted the game shut down due to rule breaks
Mago is not from the community until recently so his opinion is different if he comes from other sites
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
A-Llewella wrote:
I’m sorry but if you can not recognize how insane it is for both town and scum players to call to shut down a game because of angleshooting rule breaking behavior we will not find common ground.
It does not matter that some people did not care about it. It’s a huge deal that it happened. This site needs to get right with following rules, not using OOG info and listening when they are told “do not do this” if this community is going to grow.
Excusing this behavior is wrong imo. I don’t care what DDO was and accepted. We can either grow past that toxic meta and expand or we can die in it. This is not normal for a mafia community
It’s not that toxic. It’s being exaggerated like crazy and being made to be more toxic than it really is or should be.
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Imo the healthy thing is to acknowledge bad stuff happened and take corrective action so it does not happen again.
The unhealthy thing is to excuse what happened and ignore the problem allowing it to happen again.
Im not trying to sit around and point fingers at people. I do want to point fingers at a pattern of issues that’s harmful to the communities growth
A-Llewella wrote:
I would challenge any person in this community to show me a game they have played where both town and scum players declared they wanted the game shut down due to rule breaks
Who’s being the monkey now?
A-Llewella wrote:
Imo the healthy thing is to acknowledge bad stuff happened and take corrective action so it does not happen again.
The unhealthy thing is to excuse what happened and ignore the problem allowing it to happen again.
Im not trying to sit around and point fingers at people. I do want to point fingers at a pattern of issues that’s harmful to the communities growth
You have to take people who angle shoot with a massive grain of salt. I didn’t buy Mikal’s stance on Oberon for example but I don’t fault him for having it.
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Lunatic wrote:
A-Llewella wrote:
Imo the healthy thing is to acknowledge bad stuff happened and take corrective action so it does not happen again.
The unhealthy thing is to excuse what happened and ignore the problem allowing it to happen again.
Im not trying to sit around and point fingers at people. I do want to point fingers at a pattern of issues that’s harmful to the communities growth
You have to take people who angle shoot with a massive grain of salt. I didn’t buy Mikal’s stance on Oberon for example but I don’t fault him for having it.
Exactly. It’s not like it provided an advantage lmaoo. People use mod psyche all the time. And OGI is subject to WIFOM as well. Like Mikal is more than capable of doing what he did as scum as well.
But it did upset people to the point they called to shut down the game.
Regardless of how effective it was in game advantage can we just acknowledge that sucks and will prevent people from wanting to play here?
But it did upset people to the point they called to shut down the game.
Someone Being upset and wanting to cancel the game means every player who dedicated time and effort should be punished? Disgagree entirely.
Regardless of how effective it was in game advantage can we just acknowledge that sucks and will prevent people from wanting to play here?
They need to realize it’s not that deep. If they need a break after a heated game that’s cool.
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
ILikePie5 wrote:
Lunatic wrote:
A-Llewella wrote:
Imo the healthy thing is to acknowledge bad stuff happened and take corrective action so it does not happen again.
The unhealthy thing is to excuse what happened and ignore the problem allowing it to happen again.
Im not trying to sit around and point fingers at people. I do want to point fingers at a pattern of issues that’s harmful to the communities growth
You have to take people who angle shoot with a massive grain of salt. I didn’t buy Mikal’s stance on Oberon for example but I don’t fault him for having it.
Exactly. It’s not like it provided an advantage lmaoo. People use mod psyche all the time. And OGI is subject to WIFOM as well. Like Mikal is more than capable of doing what he did as scum as well.
Tbh there was so much angle-shooting from Random that the slot was borderline town-confirmed. Like, yeah scum could angleshoot but it would be such a weird strategy.
Just a reminder: https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/57/amber-mafia?page=31&comment_number=923
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
I did think it kind of sucked to go against the setup of a game you signed up for and try to deanonymize people. At the same time, its up to the mod to use robust game designs methods to punish bad behavior. Something like anticlaim. For example, let the scum team get power ups if a town player refers to them as the incorrect player. This would give scum incentive to roleplay and give town a strong disincentive to ever speculate about who is actually playing a slot. There are ways to build countermeasures into the game itself.
This conversation is just silly. I am not penalizing people who put time and effort into the game because the mod is salty. I have no issue with mag but this take is outright just silly. He explicitly allowed discussion about identities and answering a question to determine game balance is standard. I did not even start this, which is hilarious to me. Was done before I was even actively engaging in the game.
"I dont respect you because I didnt like the ramifications of a choice I made as a mod"
Then make a difference choice. The issue is their are two mafia cultures merging and people can have opinions. But one culture is not more wrong or right than the other. Its a preference for how the game functions.
Get helzs point but in the same light there are like 4 or 5 of us that have hundreds if not thousands of games each under us in the past 15 years and this has always been standard. Doesn't need to be this much salt. Clarify your rules better and think before you answer and if you fuck up then eat it and move on.
Why so serious.
That’s a good idea actually.
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Lunatic wrote:
When you have an end of game with both town and mafia players saying the game should be shut down because of a players behavior there is obviously a big problem
I think that stems from Caine being salty he lost tbh magic and Casey seemed fine though
Kohai was definitely much more upset about it than Magic and I, but none of us on the scum team were happy about the rule breaks. I agree that they definitely aren't why we lost the game, but I still wish they wouldn't have happened at all.
Also im not some asshat. I just have a low tolerance and threshold for grandstanding and playing the victim. You want to piss me off. Blame someone or victim feign when you are contributing makes my temper boil
Kohai had literally 0 issue posting from his account and saying who he was when he was townread. When he started playing like shit. It turned into an integrity issue and he wanted to blame the angleshooting and loss for doing the same shit he was participating in
Mod being mad when he allowed it after I took the time to ask before I even started angleshooting is also just as silly
The fact people are this pissed is just dumb. Yes the game will count. We will learn better and mods can structure rules better and learn from it.
There is no inherent rule breaking when the fucking mod confirms and allows it and every player in the game is fucking doing it, including mafia. Its only an issue when it backfires
Now we move on
What rule break specifically? Because I don’t see any. Mago told us we could do something and we did, then back tracked on it later.
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Lunatic wrote:
What rule break specifically? Because I don’t see any. Mago told us we could do something and we did, then back tracked on it later.
I mean, people were already dancing all over the line about maintaining anonymity, which is why Mag begrudgingly allowed it. I agree that allowing it, then backtracking was a... Questionable mod decision, but after he gave people strikes in-thread for not engaging with anonymity, I think it was reasonable for me to expect people to try and follow it. Mikal largely did not (and I'm not just referring to accidentally posting on his main).
Casey_Risk wrote:
Lunatic wrote:
What rule break specifically? Because I don’t see any. Mago told us we could do something and we did, then back tracked on it later.
I mean, people were already dancing all over the line about maintaining anonymity, which is why Mag begrudgingly allowed it. I agree that allowing it, then backtracking was a... Questionable mod decision, but after he gave people strikes in-thread for not engaging with anonymity, I think it was reasonable for me to expect people to try and follow it. Mikal largely did not (and I'm not just referring to accidentally posting on his main).
Your own clan mate was posting from his main, and not even once tried to hide or disguise who he was lol
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
You cant just allow discussion about identity, have discussions and reads about it [before i posted] then say you cant discuss it. You are just faking reads at that point and it almost got me lynched cus I was trying to bullshit reasons to read people. So yeah eventually I just stopped because it was silly.
The issue is you enforce it at the start or dont. After most of the game is done and people have structured thoughts based on identity. You can't just come in and say "now you cant do that" after it was already allowed. You either lie about your reads or you dont.
This is my issue. Not once did kohai care about this. Not one single time and was having reads based off who people were and was happy to be town read off the idea he was posting testing shit so much.
His tune only changed after people tracked his behavior to last game. Then its integrity. At least helz has a moral high ground. I still disagree that you can objectively ban angle shooting but he was at least honest about it. Kohai was not and did it until it bit him in the ass
The angle shooting wouldn’t have been a complaint if it worked out in scum’s favor and Mikal got mislynched, and he almost did. It’s only a problem because somehow it resulted in a mafia lynch
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Get fucked
Kick logic to the curb and do the impossible!
I think there is a conversation to be had about mafia and the player pool relating to skill gap. It’s 10x harder to learn mechanics here because there is no beginner series or anything that you can dip toes into. I remember when I first started back in 2017 I was in a scum team with Luna in a beginner game and I learned a lot about scum mechanics, etc. We just don’t have that which widens the skill gap between new players and veterans
Kick logic to the curb and do the impossible!
Also I’m glad I died early from a personal perspective. I had an untimely passing to my uncle that shook me, hence why I did not read much on this game once I died.
Kick logic to the curb and do the impossible!
Vader wrote:
Get fucked
Lol wym, we won
I was just playing lol
Kick logic to the curb and do the impossible!
Sorry about your uncle :/
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Vader wrote:
I think there is a conversation to be had about mafia and the player pool relating to skill gap. It’s 10x harder to learn mechanics here because there is no beginner series or anything that you can dip toes into. I remember when I first started back in 2017 I was in a scum team with Luna in a beginner game and I learned a lot about scum mechanics, etc. We just don’t have that which widens the skill gap between new players and veterans
I vaguely remember that
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Mikal wrote:
This is my issue. Not once did kohai care about this. Not one single time and was having reads based off who people were and was happy to be town read off the idea he was posting testing shit so much.
His tune only changed after people tracked his behavior to last game. Then its integrity. At least helz has a moral high ground. I still disagree that you can objectively ban angle shooting but he was at least honest about it. Kohai was not and did it until it bit him in the ass
Mikal wrote:
Also im not some asshat. I just have a low tolerance and threshold for grandstanding and playing the victim. You want to piss me off. Blame someone or victim feign when you are contributing makes my temper boil
Kohai had literally 0 issue posting from his account and saying who he was when he was townread. When he started playing like shit. It turned into an integrity issue and he wanted to blame the angleshooting and loss for doing the same shit he was participating in
Mod being mad when he allowed it after I took the time to ask before I even started angleshooting is also just as silly
The fact people are this pissed is just dumb. Yes the game will count. We will learn better and mods can structure rules better and learn from it.
There is no inherent rule breaking when the fucking mod confirms and allows it and every player in the game is fucking doing it, including mafia. Its only an issue when it backfires
Now we move on
My issue was with “whoever doesn’t claim who they really” are gets lynched. It looks really bad even knowing I allowed people to claim who they are. Like… lets say scum initially wanted to fake being someone else. Whats gonna happen when that rule changes? And then people are allowed to massclaim their actual identity?
It gives one side an unfair advantage. Yes, it’s my fault for allowing this, I hadn’t thought of that loophole.
And I overreacted when I attacked you so harshly, I am very sorry. When I get angry its like a flood of bullshit that I can’t control (just ask Helz).
With that being said. I still have issue with you asking me that question about anonymity then publicly declaring that you asked it to see if I would answer which would mean the two roles whatever weren’t in the game. I was very tempted to give Mafia a disguiser then and there.
