Apocalypse Mafia - Endgame | Mafia

#1

Mafia wins

DP1: https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/87/apocalypse-mafia---dp1

DP2: https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/88/apocalypse-mafia---dp2

DP3: https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/89/apocalypse-mafia---dp3

Town

Kohai - Zombie apocalypse - zombie apocalypses aren't actually that scary, Shaun of the Dead is the best depiction of zombies, they die so easy we'd probably make them pets. You are the stump. After you die you turn into a stump; as stump you may still talk, including at night, but you don't count toward the game and you can't vote.

Vader - Solar flare - Anomalous surface turbulence may cause massive quantities of high energy electromagnetic emissions to escape the sun and hit earth. While solar flares are unlikely to directly harm humans on earth, they could cause an EMP that fries all electronics on earth, which may cause economic and then societal collapse. You are the town 2x roleblocker.

Banana - Alien invasion - we'd like to think we can put up a fight against an alien invasion, but the fact is an alien civilization that can space travel can probably vaporize us like ants. Before aliens invade us they might probe us; but travelling back and forth takes a long time. For this reason you are the even-night follower - each even numbered night, you may visit a player, and learn the type of action they took; the possible results are: none, visiting, informational, protective, manipulative, killing, special.

Mag1cman - God turns out to be real - God turns out to be real, and we humans face their judgement and wrath. He grants powers to his most devout followers. During the pre-game phase, you may choose your patron god; your ability will be based on the patron god you choose. The ability will not be revealed to you until the end of DP1, you must take it on faith.

Your options:

Ra - (as the Lightbringer, you have power over the day, but you are preoccupied during the night. Once per game during the day, you may choose to govern a lynch, OR, in the case the town fails to reach a lynch target, choose a lynch.)

Jesus - (Jesus is known for curing lepers through miracles, but not for spotting traitors. You are the doctor.)

Athena - (Athena is known for her wisdom. If you choose Athena, you will be granted the wisdom to divine innocent from guilty. You are cop.)

Whiteflame - Ice-nine - Ice-IX is a fictional hypothetical polymorph of ice from Kurt Vonnegut's "Cat's Cradle", that has a higher melting temperature than regular ice. Ice-IX is a non-naturally forming but superstable crystal structure that acts as a seed against normal ice. When ice-IX contacts water or regular ice, it transforms it into ice-IX. Ice-IX is incompatible with life, and will freeze the oceans and destroy all life that it touches. Because of its seeding ability, you are the contact counter - each night, you may visit a player, you will receive a count of all players who are in your contact chain. For example, you visit player A, player A visits player B, your count will be 3. You visit yourself, player C visits you, your count will be 2.

Thoth - Sun transforming into a red giant - in a billion years, the sun will turn into a red giant and engulf earth in flames. However, this apocalypse is so far into the future it's unlikely to happen to humans as we know ourselves today. You are vanilla.

JenKiggans2026 [Vader (2)] - False vacuum decay - a false vacuum is a quantum state that is metastable, meaning it is stable, but not necessarily the most stable state. It's possible that since the big bang, pockets of our universe exists in a false vacuum. A true vacuum could fluctuate, nucleate, or propagate to where we are at the speed of light, fundamentally changing the laws of physics, making our existence impossible. The electroweak force is a candidate for a false vacuum force. Because you are "false", you are miller.

Mafia

ILikePie5 - Corpocracy - corporations finally gain more power than the government and we descend back into feudalism. The ultra rich owner's class can act without regard to law or morality. Because corporations have control of the government you are the lawyer. Each night you may choose to lawyer someone and make them investigate as innocent.

Lunatic - Nuclear war - MAD or mutually assured destruction is a cold war era doctrine that says if 1 party uses nukes, the other will retaliate in kind and both parties will be destroyed, MAD depended on credible threat of retaliation to maintain deterrence. The Soviets had an automated nuclear control system called the "Dead Hand", that will activate to destroy the United States in the case the US launched a preemptive strike that successfully decapitates Soviet leadership. For this reason you are the 1x strong-willed dead strongman. When you perform the night kill, your action will not be manipulated in any way; in addition, you may perform the night kill with this ability ONCE after you die.

FREE FAKE CLAIM: AI takeover - I for one welcome our AI overlords. AI have deep knowledge over everything digital but still ends up being confidently wrong sometimes. You are the dreamer, each night you receive a list of 3 names, AT LEAST 1 of which is scum; note that this ability IS AFFECTED BY MODIFERS such as miller or godfather; if you are visited at night you do not dream.

Theme: "I can change almost anything, but I cannot change human nature." You are both caused by human nature. Note that I'm distinguishing between man-caused and caused by human nature. In a man-made apocalypse, the method of destruction could be created by accident or used by rogue actors. In a human nature apocalypse, the destruction is caused by collective human behaviour. The theme may be somewhat obvious so claim your real chars at your own risk.

Actions

Pregame:

magic chooses Jesus

DP1:

lynch vader

NP1:

luna strongman NK banana - success

Pie lawyer pie

magic doc pie

whiteflame count kohai - count 2

DP2:

lynch Thoth

NP2:

Pie lawyer pie

luna NK magic

magic waive doc

whiteflame count vader - count 2

DP3:

lynch Kohai

Commentary

The RNG kind of worked out funny. The new player got miller, the science guy got the scifi character, the religious guy got the rapture, the admin at the dead poster, and the 2 recent scum players rolled mafia.

None of the actions hit ANYTHING. This might as well have been an all vanilla game.

Magic called out the theme split AND Athena's cop role DP2. If he didn't waive he would have lived to DP3.

Behaviour is always king. There wasn't enough focus on that compared to characters and roles.

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Mafia wins DP1: https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/87/apocalypse-mafia---dp1DP2: https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/88/apocalypse-mafia---dp2DP3: https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/89/apocalypse-mafia---dp3 <h2>Town</h2>Kohai - Zombie apocalypse - zombie apocalypses aren't actually that scary, Shaun of the Dead is the best depiction of zombies, they die so easy we'd probably make them pets. You are the stump. After you die you turn into a stump; as stump you may still talk, including at night, but you don't count toward the game and you can't vote. Vader - Solar flare - Anomalous surface turbulence may cause massive quantities of high energy electromagnetic emissions to escape the sun and hit earth. While solar flares are unlikely to directly harm humans on earth, they could cause an EMP that fries all electronics on earth, which may cause economic and then societal collapse. You are the town 2x roleblocker. Banana - Alien invasion - we'd like to think we can put up a fight against an alien invasion, but the fact is an alien civilization that can space travel can probably vaporize us like ants. Before aliens invade us they might probe us; but travelling back and forth takes a long time. For this reason you are the even-night follower - each even numbered night, you may visit a player, and learn the type of action they took; the possible results are: none, visiting, informational, protective, manipulative, killing, special. Mag1cman - God turns out to be real - God turns out to be real, and we humans face their judgement and wrath. He grants powers to his most devout followers. During the pre-game phase, you may choose your patron god; your ability will be based on the patron god you choose. The ability will not be revealed to you until the end of DP1, you must take it on faith. Your options: Ra - (as the Lightbringer, you have power over the day, but you are preoccupied during the night. Once per game during the day, you may choose to govern a lynch, OR, in the case the town fails to reach a lynch target, choose a lynch.) Jesus - (Jesus is known for curing lepers through miracles, but not for spotting traitors. You are the doctor.) Athena - (Athena is known for her wisdom. If you choose Athena, you will be granted the wisdom to divine innocent from guilty. You are cop.)Whiteflame - Ice-nine - Ice-IX is a fictional hypothetical polymorph of ice from Kurt Vonnegut's "Cat's Cradle", that has a higher melting temperature than regular ice. Ice-IX is a non-naturally forming but superstable crystal structure that acts as a seed against normal ice. When ice-IX contacts water or regular ice, it transforms it into ice-IX. Ice-IX is incompatible with life, and will freeze the oceans and destroy all life that it touches. Because of its seeding ability, you are the contact counter - each night, you may visit a player, you will receive a count of all players who are in your contact chain. For example, you visit player A, player A visits player B, your count will be 3. You visit yourself, player C visits you, your count will be 2. Thoth - Sun transforming into a red giant - in a billion years, the sun will turn into a red giant and engulf earth in flames. However, this apocalypse is so far into the future it's unlikely to happen to humans as we know ourselves today. You are vanilla. JenKiggans2026 [Vader (2)] - False vacuum decay - a false vacuum is a quantum state that is metastable, meaning it is stable, but not necessarily the most stable state. It's possible that since the big bang, pockets of our universe exists in a false vacuum. A true vacuum could fluctuate, nucleate, or propagate to where we are at the speed of light, fundamentally changing the laws of physics, making our existence impossible. The electroweak force is a candidate for a false vacuum force. Because you are "false", you are miller. <h2>Mafia</h2>ILikePie5 - Corpocracy - corporations finally gain more power than the government and we descend back into feudalism. The ultra rich owner's class can act without regard to law or morality. Because corporations have control of the government you are the lawyer. Each night you may choose to lawyer someone and make them investigate as innocent. Lunatic - Nuclear war - MAD or mutually assured destruction is a cold war era doctrine that says if 1 party uses nukes, the other will retaliate in kind and both parties will be destroyed, MAD depended on credible threat of retaliation to maintain deterrence. The Soviets had an automated nuclear control system called the "Dead Hand", that will activate to destroy the United States in the case the US launched a preemptive strike that successfully decapitates Soviet leadership. For this reason you are the 1x strong-willed dead strongman. When you perform the night kill, your action will not be manipulated in any way; in addition, you may perform the night kill with this ability ONCE after you die. FREE FAKE CLAIM: AI takeover - I for one welcome our AI overlords. AI have deep knowledge over everything digital but still ends up being confidently wrong sometimes. You are the dreamer, each night you receive a list of 3 names, AT LEAST 1 of which is scum; note that this ability IS AFFECTED BY MODIFERS such as miller or godfather; if you are visited at night you do not dream.   Theme: "I can change almost anything, but I cannot change human nature." You are both caused by human nature. Note that I'm distinguishing between man-caused and caused by human nature. In a man-made apocalypse, the method of destruction could be created by accident or used by rogue actors. In a human nature apocalypse, the destruction is caused by collective human behaviour. The theme may be somewhat obvious so claim your real chars at your own risk. <h2>Actions</h2>Pregame: magic chooses Jesus DP1: lynch vader NP1: luna strongman NK banana - success Pie lawyer pie magic doc pie whiteflame count kohai - count 2 DP2: lynch Thoth NP2: Pie lawyer pie luna NK magic magic waive doc whiteflame count vader - count 2 DP3: lynch Kohai <h2>Commentary</h2> The RNG kind of worked out funny. The new player got miller, the science guy got the scifi character, the religious guy got the rapture, the admin at the dead poster, and the 2 recent scum players rolled mafia. None of the actions hit ANYTHING. This might as well have been an all vanilla game. Magic called out the theme split AND Athena's cop role DP2. If he didn't waive he would have lived to DP3. Behaviour is always king. There wasn't enough focus on that compared to characters and roles.

#2

--> @Banana, @ILikePie5, @JenKiggans2026, @Kohai, @Lunatic, @Mag1cman, @Thoth, @Vader, @whiteflame

endgame

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#3

Yeah, I have two complaints with the setup.

The biggest one is having a Miller without a guaranteed role for it to affect. That necessarily either placed the Miller in the hot seat, or gave scum an opportunity to effectively use their Dreamer fake claim as almost necessary to justify the Miller even being here. It’s not so much that Athena didn’t flip (though that’s part of it), rather that the possibility of never even having an alignment investigative just raises red flags, essentially demanding the Miller’s lynch thus basically confirming the Dreamer. I get the idea you were going for, but this was built to be a mechanical clusterfuck for town. Even if I had intuited that Athena was the Cop and lynched Luna over it, I would have been forced to consider believing Pie or lynching Vader, and that’s in spite of a strong behavioral read against Pie.

Second problem, that theme split is wonky. Big fan of Cat’s Cradle, and it’s arguable whether that apocalypse was caused by man or human nature, depending on which drivers are your focus (the military supported the efforts to create Ice-IX and while the cause in book for the apocalypse was a rogue actor, the cause for the creation of the means was human nature). I’d argue that the Zombie Apocalypse could fit the same mold. It’s not that the theme split isn’t discernible, it’s that several town characters arguably could fall on either side of it.

I do agree that behavior should’ve directed more of our lynches and was a problem, particularly for Pie. Even mechanically, his explanation of his role was full of holes. That being said, with the above issues, I just would’ve had a near impossible time lynching Luna if I’d actually gotten Pie in DP3, and if we’d somehow gotten Luna, it still would’ve been an uphill climb to lynch Pie next. Maybe that’s just a me problem, but that Miller situation just threw me way too hard and theme didn’t appear to be helping at all.

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Yeah, I have two complaints with the setup. The biggest one is having a Miller without a guaranteed role for it to affect. That necessarily either placed the Miller in the hot seat, or gave scum an opportunity to effectively use their Dreamer fake claim as almost necessary to justify the Miller even being here. It’s not so much that Athena didn’t flip (though that’s part of it), rather that the possibility of never even having an alignment investigative just raises red flags, essentially demanding the Miller’s lynch thus basically confirming the Dreamer. I get the idea you were going for, but this was built to be a mechanical clusterfuck for town. Even if I had intuited that Athena was the Cop and lynched Luna over it, I would have been forced to consider believing Pie or lynching Vader, and that’s in spite of a strong behavioral read against Pie. Second problem, that theme split is wonky. Big fan of Cat’s Cradle, and it’s arguable whether that apocalypse was caused by man or human nature, depending on which drivers are your focus (the military supported the efforts to create Ice-IX and while the cause in book for the apocalypse was a rogue actor, the cause for the creation of the means was human nature). I’d argue that the Zombie Apocalypse could fit the same mold. It’s not that the theme split isn’t discernible, it’s that several town characters arguably could fall on either side of it. I do agree that behavior should’ve directed more of our lynches and was a problem, particularly for Pie. Even mechanically, his explanation of his role was full of holes. That being said, with the above issues, I just would’ve had a near impossible time lynching Luna if I’d actually gotten Pie in DP3, and if we’d somehow gotten Luna, it still would’ve been an uphill climb to lynch Pie next. Maybe that’s just a me problem, but that Miller situation just threw me way too hard and theme didn’t appear to be helping at all.

#4

Just to be clear, I still enjoyed this and appreciate the setup for the most part. It’s good to return to the game after a bit of a break.

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#5

--> @whiteflame

yeah the setup was something.

I was literally forced to lie about my justification because of how much of a stretch it is and no one would believe that we may keep zombies as pets.

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"Kohai, your entrance to the thread was legendary, you had a solve and a winning PoE right when you showed up, super impressive stuff, even more so considering it wasn't even your objective!!" - Zrein

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