Official Discussion / Poll: When does MyLo occur? | Mafia

#1

In a recent game, there was a big debate on when MyLo should officially be called. In summary, there are two competing definitions:

MyLo is the point in the game where if town mislynches during the day phase, then the mafia team is guaranteed to gain parity and meet their win condition during the subsequent night phase via their night kill.
MyLo is the point in the game where if town mislynches during the day phase, then town PRs must stop the night kill in the subsequent night phase or else the mafia team will gain parity and meet their win condition during the subsequent night phase via their night kill.

The crucial distinction between 1 and 2 is that in option 1 town has zero ways to stop the night kill, but in option 2 town will have some ways to stop the night kill.

The definition our community ultimately decides on is crucial for roles like hated and popular that are disabled in MyLo.

Regardless of which two options we go with, the subsequent night phase still needs to be played out - especially if town has a way to stop the night kill.

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In a recent game, there was a big debate on when MyLo should officially be called. In summary, there are two competing definitions:<ol><li>MyLo is the point in the game where if town mislynches during the day phase, then the mafia team is guaranteed to gain parity and meet their win condition during the subsequent night phase via their night kill. </li><li>MyLo is the point in the game where if town mislynches during the day phase, then town PRs must stop the night kill in the subsequent night phase or else the mafia team will gain parity and meet their win condition during the subsequent night phase via their night kill.</li></ol>The crucial distinction between 1 and 2 is that in option 1 town has zero ways to stop the night kill, but in option 2 town will have some ways to stop the night kill. The definition our community ultimately decides on is crucial for roles like hated and popular that are disabled in MyLo. Regardless of which two options we go with, the subsequent night phase still needs to be played out - especially if town has a way to stop the night kill.

"Kohai, your entrance to the thread was legendary, you had a solve and a winning PoE right when you showed up, super impressive stuff, even more so considering it wasn't even your objective!!" - Zrein

#2

I could possibly be persuaded otherwise, but I think the best definitions of MYLO and LYLO are (Town = Scum + 2) and (Town = Scum + 1), respectively, where third-parties are included as whatever alignment they count for the parity of, if any. My concern is that declaring MYLO/LYLO with consideration to extra kills, protectives, or other night actions could give too much insight into the setup, while effectively announcing the number of remaining scum only reveals what people probably guessed correctly anyway.

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Forum signatures are bullshit. Nobody wants to waste their time and bandwidth reading something they have read 29,998,559,671,349 times before.

(Last edited by Thoth on )

#3

My definition does mean that MYLO/LYLO could be misnomers, and I never liked the word lynch to begin with, so two changes in terminology may be overdue.

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Forum signatures are bullshit. Nobody wants to waste their time and bandwidth reading something they have read 29,998,559,671,349 times before.

(Last edited by whiteflame on )

#4

--> @Kohai

Going to have to quibble on this because, while that was a difference of opinion on MYLO and when it occurs, that was not the sole disagreement. Aside from a separate opinion given by Mag1c after the fact that involved fake claims, Luna and I have also argued that, to put it in a similar format to what you’ve described here:

MYLO is the point in the game where if town mislynches during the day phase, then a successful night kill would result in the mafia team gaining parity and meeting their win condition during the subsequent night phase.

In other words, MYLO is a descriptor of the DP that does not factor in night actions, whether those actions could prevent a loss or not. This definition is the one I believe we should use.

As for which of these two I believe is more accurate absent the above as an option, it’s the second because it at least acknowledges that the DP must be MYLO and lets the NP resolve separately from that, unless I’m misunderstanding something. I can argue the case, but I’d like to get others opinions in here first as I’ve already given mine extensively in the endgame.

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Going to have to quibble on this because, while that was a difference of opinion on MYLO and when it occurs, that was not the sole disagreement. Aside from a separate opinion given by Mag1c after the fact that involved fake claims, Luna and I have also argued that, to put it in a similar format to what you’ve described here: MYLO is the point in the game where if town mislynches during the day phase, then a successful night kill would result in the mafia team gaining parity and meeting their win condition during the subsequent night phase. In other words, MYLO is a descriptor of the DP that does not factor in night actions, whether those actions could prevent a loss or not. This definition is the one I believe we should use. As for which of these two I believe is more accurate absent the above as an option, it’s the second because it at least acknowledges that the DP must be MYLO and lets the NP resolve separately from that, unless I’m misunderstanding something. I can argue the case, but I’d like to get others opinions in here first as I’ve already given mine extensively in the endgame.

#5

--> @Thoth

Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/10/2026 at 12:31 AM (post #3)

My definition does mean that MYLO/LYLO could be misnomers, and I never liked the word lynch to begin with, so two changes in terminology may be overdue.

Regarding the word lynch: I understand why people do not like that word and everyone is free to use whatever word they see best.

That said unlike certain sites that will warn and ban you for saying lynch we will never moderate someone for simply using the word lynch.

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"Kohai, your entrance to the thread was legendary, you had a solve and a winning PoE right when you showed up, super impressive stuff, even more so considering it wasn't even your objective!!" - Zrein

#6

Simple, we just rename it Mislynch and Fail a Saving Throw.

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#7

--> @whiteflame

Would you count a day that starts with 2 scum versus 5 town as MYLO if scum had a second kill they could use that night?

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Forum signatures are bullshit. Nobody wants to waste their time and bandwidth reading something they have read 29,998,559,671,349 times before.

#8

In a recent game, there was a big debate on when MyLo should officially be called.

It wasn’t a “big debate” I can see why you’d frame it that way to save face though and make it look like this is something that’s never been encountered before so it can make your extremely odd decision seem less like a bad decision. The best argument it had going for it was magic claiming he was an unstoppable doctor, which turned out to mot even be the case meaning it was 100% just MYLO as their was no concievable way town could have won.

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In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.

#9

--> @Thoth

Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/10/2026 at 2:49 AM (post #7)

Would you count a day that starts with 2 scum versus 5 town as MYLO if scum had a second kill they could use that night?

No, I wouldn’t. It’s still factoring in some role that exists and could be used during the following NP, so it’s adding details that don’t affect the current status of parity in the DP.

And like you said, doing so would require the mod to effectively confirm (or at least strongly hint at) a possible extra kill during the NP.

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(Last edited by whiteflame on )

#10

I'm just going to summarize the reasons why I don't think we should factor night actions into the question of whether we've reached MYLO. I invite people to engage with this who disagree.

Mods would have to explain what night actions can affect the point at which MYLO would be achieved and almost certainly have to announce when MYLO occurs to provide full clarity. Doing so necessarily announces the existence of certain role types in the game. Looking at this past game, if Kohai had announced that it was not MYLO and had clarified what his standard for MYLO was, that would have verified that there was a protective role left in the game.
Those decisions could (and likely would) be arbitrary. Again, looking at this past game, Kohai only considered the existence of a remaining protective role in his decision. He did not consider that the scum team - who knew the identity of the player who had that protective role, knew what that role was and had a Redirector shot - could act in a way that would prevent said protective role from being effective, so his decision to say it was not MYLO functioned off of the faulty premise that the protective role could feasibly have prevented the NK.
Expanding on this, a fake claim was made by said protective role to indicate their action could not be affected by the Redirector shot. Kohai choosing to say that it is not MYLO lends credence to that fake claim expansion.
This renders MYLO as conditional based on specific circumstances that are almost entirely separate from the events of the DP. If night actions that could prevent the game-winning NK can affect the status of the prior DP, then it's never MYLO and it's never LYLO either, since the mod cannot presume a lynch will even happen. In effect, so long as a protective role remains in the game that does not sacrifice another player, MYLO and LYLO don't exist. That lends too much power to the existence of a specific role, effectively places an additional burden on the scum team to eliminate them, and creates broad confusion over parity.

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I'm just going to summarize the reasons why I don't think we should factor night actions into the question of whether we've reached MYLO. I invite people to engage with this who disagree. <ol><li>Mods would have to explain what night actions can affect the point at which MYLO would be achieved and almost certainly have to announce when MYLO occurs to provide full clarity. Doing so necessarily announces the existence of certain role types in the game. Looking at this past game, if Kohai had announced that it was not MYLO and had clarified what his standard for MYLO was, that would have verified that there was a protective role left in the game.</li><li>Those decisions could (and likely would) be arbitrary. Again, looking at this past game, Kohai only considered the existence of a remaining protective role in his decision. He did not consider that the scum team - who knew the identity of the player who had that protective role, knew what that role was and had a Redirector shot - could act in a way that would prevent said protective role from being effective, so his decision to say it was not MYLO functioned off of the faulty premise that the protective role could feasibly have prevented the NK.</li><li class="ql-indent-1">Expanding on this, a fake claim was made by said protective role to indicate their action could not be affected by the Redirector shot. Kohai choosing to say that it is not MYLO lends credence to that fake claim expansion.</li><li>This renders MYLO as conditional based on specific circumstances that are almost entirely separate from the events of the DP. If night actions that could prevent the game-winning NK can affect the status of the prior DP, then it's never MYLO and it's never LYLO either, since the mod cannot presume a lynch will even happen. In effect, so long as a protective role remains in the game that does not sacrifice another player, MYLO and LYLO don't exist. That lends too much power to the existence of a specific role, effectively places an additional burden on the scum team to eliminate them, and creates broad confusion over parity.</li></ol>

#11

I think Whiteflame’s argument is sound. I don’t think the answer back there was as obvious as Lunatic has said, so I support the draw.

But going forward, I support a definition that is purely based on the numbers.

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I still don’t know what to type!

#12

--> @Thoth

Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/10/2026 at 12:31 AM (post #3)

My definition does mean that MYLO/LYLO could be misnomers, and I never liked the word lynch to begin with, so two changes in terminology may be overdue.

Go pound some sand.

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I still don’t know what to type!

#13

--> @Mag1cman

I supported the draw when I believed you that your role was unstoppable. It's unusual, but so is two Vigs. Now? Yeah that was definitely MYLO by either definition up for debate here, not that it doesn't pain me to say so.

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#14

--> @Wryly

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/10/2026 at 2:27 PM (post #13)

I supported the draw when I believed you that your role was unstoppable. It's unusual, but so is two Vigs. Now? Yeah that was definitely MYLO by either definition up for debate here, not that it doesn't pain me to say so.

The vig was only 1 shot. They used it n2 otherwise it would no doubt be MyLo

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"Kohai, your entrance to the thread was legendary, you had a solve and a winning PoE right when you showed up, super impressive stuff, even more so considering it wasn't even your objective!!" - Zrein

#15

--> @Kohai

Doesn't matter, does it? We started last DP with 6. Mislynch takes us to 5. That night phase Mag1c can't doctor. NK makes it 4, 2-2, that's parity.

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#16

--> @Kohai

Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/10/2026 at 6:47 PM (post #14)

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/10/2026 at 2:27 PM (post #13)

I supported the draw when I believed you that your role was unstoppable. It's unusual, but so is two Vigs. Now? Yeah that was definitely MYLO by either definition up for debate here, not that it doesn't pain me to say so.

The vig was only 1 shot. They used it n2 otherwise it would no doubt be MyLo

This is part of the problem I have with your position on this: you're selecting two roles (Doc and Vig) that could have affected the outcome of the game, and ignoring another role (Redirector) that could have (and in this case, would have) affected that very same outcome. I get why Doc and Vig matter when it comes to your view of how MYLO should be defined, I just don't get why manipulative roles don't.

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<blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/Kohai" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Kohai</a> on 7/10/2026 at 6:47 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=14" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#14</a>)</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/Wryly" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Wryly</a> on 7/10/2026 at 2:27 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=13" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#13</a>)</blockquote><blockquote>I supported the draw when I believed you that your role was unstoppable. It's unusual, but so is two Vigs. Now? Yeah that was definitely MYLO by either definition up for debate here, not that it doesn't pain me to say so.</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>The vig was only 1 shot. They used it n2 otherwise it would no doubt be MyLo</blockquote> This is part of the problem I have with your position on this: you're selecting two roles (Doc and Vig) that could have affected the outcome of the game, and ignoring another role (Redirector) that could have (and in this case, would have) affected that very same outcome. I get why Doc and Vig matter when it comes to your view of how MYLO should be defined, I just don't get why manipulative roles don't.

#17

--> @whiteflame

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/10/2026 at 10:33 PM (post #16)

Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/10/2026 at 6:47 PM (post #14)

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/10/2026 at 2:27 PM (post #13)

I supported the draw when I believed you that your role was unstoppable. It's unusual, but so is two Vigs. Now? Yeah that was definitely MYLO by either definition up for debate here, not that it doesn't pain me to say so.

The vig was only 1 shot. They used it n2 otherwise it would no doubt be MyLo

This is part of the problem I have with your position on this: you're selecting two roles (Doc and Vig) that could have affected the outcome of the game, and ignoring another role (Redirector) that could have (and in this case, would have) affected that very same outcome. I get why Doc and Vig matter when it comes to your view of how MYLO should be defined, I just don't get why manipulative roles don't.

It really boils down to MyLo: Mislynch and lose. If it is possible for town to mislynch and not lose then it isn't MyLo. I think that's where I'm coming from.

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<blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/whiteflame" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">whiteflame</a> on 7/10/2026 at 10:33 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=16" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#16</a>)</blockquote><blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/Kohai" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Kohai</a> on 7/10/2026 at 6:47 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=14" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#14</a>)</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/Wryly" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Wryly</a> on 7/10/2026 at 2:27 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=13" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#13</a>)</blockquote><blockquote>I supported the draw when I believed you that your role was unstoppable. It's unusual, but so is two Vigs. Now? Yeah that was definitely MYLO by either definition up for debate here, not that it doesn't pain me to say so.</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>The vig was only 1 shot. They used it n2 otherwise it would no doubt be MyLo</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>This is part of the problem I have with your position on this: you're selecting two roles (Doc and Vig) that could have affected the outcome of the game, and ignoring another role (Redirector) that could have (and in this case, would have) affected that very same outcome. I get why Doc and Vig matter when it comes to your view of how MYLO should be defined, I just don't get why manipulative roles don't.</blockquote> It really boils down to MyLo: Mislynch and lose. If it is possible for town to mislynch and not lose then it isn't MyLo. I think that's where I'm coming from.

"Kohai, your entrance to the thread was legendary, you had a solve and a winning PoE right when you showed up, super impressive stuff, even more so considering it wasn't even your objective!!" - Zrein

#18

--> @Kohai

Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/11/2026 at 12:17 PM (post #17)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/10/2026 at 10:33 PM (post #16)

Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/10/2026 at 6:47 PM (post #14)

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/10/2026 at 2:27 PM (post #13)

I supported the draw when I believed you that your role was unstoppable. It's unusual, but so is two Vigs. Now? Yeah that was definitely MYLO by either definition up for debate here, not that it doesn't pain me to say so.

The vig was only 1 shot. They used it n2 otherwise it would no doubt be MyLo

This is part of the problem I have with your position on this: you're selecting two roles (Doc and Vig) that could have affected the outcome of the game, and ignoring another role (Redirector) that could have (and in this case, would have) affected that very same outcome. I get why Doc and Vig matter when it comes to your view of how MYLO should be defined, I just don't get why manipulative roles don't.

It really boils down to MyLo: Mislynch and lose. If it is possible for town to mislynch and not lose then it isn't MyLo. I think that's where I'm coming from.

But that’s circular logic when it comes to the Popular Townie. Also, in that case it would just be LYLO,

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<blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/Kohai" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Kohai</a> on 7/11/2026 at 12:17 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=17" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#17</a>)</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/whiteflame" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">whiteflame</a> on 7/10/2026 at 10:33 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=16" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#16</a>)</blockquote><blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/Kohai" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Kohai</a> on 7/10/2026 at 6:47 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=14" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#14</a>)</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/Wryly" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Wryly</a> on 7/10/2026 at 2:27 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=13" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#13</a>)</blockquote><blockquote>I supported the draw when I believed you that your role was unstoppable. It's unusual, but so is two Vigs. Now? Yeah that was definitely MYLO by either definition up for debate here, not that it doesn't pain me to say so.</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>The vig was only 1 shot. They used it n2 otherwise it would no doubt be MyLo</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>This is part of the problem I have with your position on this: you're selecting two roles (Doc and Vig) that could have affected the outcome of the game, and ignoring another role (Redirector) that could have (and in this case, would have) affected that very same outcome. I get why Doc and Vig matter when it comes to your view of how MYLO should be defined, I just don't get why manipulative roles don't.</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>It really boils down to MyLo: Mislynch and lose. If it is possible for town to mislynch and not lose then it isn't MyLo. I think that's where I'm coming from.</blockquote> But that’s circular logic when it comes to the Popular Townie. Also, in that case it would just be LYLO,

#19

--> @Banana, @Mikal, @RexFavilla, @Thoth, @wylted

Do yall support the draw? I think it’s only fair to give the win to scum. Wryly and I are in agreement and that makes 4 players out of 10. Need 2 more

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#20

--> @ILikePie5

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/11/2026 at 1:46 PM (post #18)

Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/11/2026 at 12:17 PM (post #17)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/10/2026 at 10:33 PM (post #16)

Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/10/2026 at 6:47 PM (post #14)

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/10/2026 at 2:27 PM (post #13)

I supported the draw when I believed you that your role was unstoppable. It's unusual, but so is two Vigs. Now? Yeah that was definitely MYLO by either definition up for debate here, not that it doesn't pain me to say so.

The vig was only 1 shot. They used it n2 otherwise it would no doubt be MyLo

This is part of the problem I have with your position on this: you're selecting two roles (Doc and Vig) that could have affected the outcome of the game, and ignoring another role (Redirector) that could have (and in this case, would have) affected that very same outcome. I get why Doc and Vig matter when it comes to your view of how MYLO should be defined, I just don't get why manipulative roles don't.

It really boils down to MyLo: Mislynch and lose. If it is possible for town to mislynch and not lose then it isn't MyLo. I think that's where I'm coming from.

But that’s circular logic when it comes to the Popular Townie. Also, in that case it would just be LYLO,

If it wasn’t for the popular townie and the doctor it would be objectively MyLo. This is one of the biggest challenges in designing roles that disable in MyLo is determining when MyLo actually begins.

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<blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/ILikePie5" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">ILikePie5</a> on 7/11/2026 at 1:46 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=18" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#18</a>)</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/Kohai" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Kohai</a> on 7/11/2026 at 12:17 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=17" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#17</a>)</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/whiteflame" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">whiteflame</a> on 7/10/2026 at 10:33 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=16" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#16</a>)</blockquote><blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/Kohai" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Kohai</a> on 7/10/2026 at 6:47 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=14" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#14</a>)</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/Wryly" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Wryly</a> on 7/10/2026 at 2:27 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=13" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#13</a>)</blockquote><blockquote>I supported the draw when I believed you that your role was unstoppable. It's unusual, but so is two Vigs. Now? Yeah that was definitely MYLO by either definition up for debate here, not that it doesn't pain me to say so.</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>The vig was only 1 shot. They used it n2 otherwise it would no doubt be MyLo</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>This is part of the problem I have with your position on this: you're selecting two roles (Doc and Vig) that could have affected the outcome of the game, and ignoring another role (Redirector) that could have (and in this case, would have) affected that very same outcome. I get why Doc and Vig matter when it comes to your view of how MYLO should be defined, I just don't get why manipulative roles don't.</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>It really boils down to MyLo: Mislynch and lose. If it is possible for town to mislynch and not lose then it isn't MyLo. I think that's where I'm coming from.</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>But that’s circular logic when it comes to the Popular Townie. Also, in that case it would just be LYLO,</blockquote> If it wasn’t for the popular townie and the doctor it would be objectively MyLo. This is one of the biggest challenges in designing roles that disable in MyLo is determining when MyLo actually begins.

"Kohai, your entrance to the thread was legendary, you had a solve and a winning PoE right when you showed up, super impressive stuff, even more so considering it wasn't even your objective!!" - Zrein

#21

--> @Kohai

Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/11/2026 at 12:50 PM (post #20)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/11/2026 at 1:46 PM (post #18)

Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/11/2026 at 12:17 PM (post #17)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/10/2026 at 10:33 PM (post #16)

Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/10/2026 at 6:47 PM (post #14)

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/10/2026 at 2:27 PM (post #13)

I supported the draw when I believed you that your role was unstoppable. It's unusual, but so is two Vigs. Now? Yeah that was definitely MYLO by either definition up for debate here, not that it doesn't pain me to say so.

The vig was only 1 shot. They used it n2 otherwise it would no doubt be MyLo

This is part of the problem I have with your position on this: you're selecting two roles (Doc and Vig) that could have affected the outcome of the game, and ignoring another role (Redirector) that could have (and in this case, would have) affected that very same outcome. I get why Doc and Vig matter when it comes to your view of how MYLO should be defined, I just don't get why manipulative roles don't.

It really boils down to MyLo: Mislynch and lose. If it is possible for town to mislynch and not lose then it isn't MyLo. I think that's where I'm coming from.

But that’s circular logic when it comes to the Popular Townie. Also, in that case it would just be LYLO,

If it wasn’t for the popular townie and the doctor it would be objectively MyLo. This is one of the biggest challenges in designing roles that disable in MyLo is determining when MyLo actually begins.

Okay, but it isn’t Mislynch and 100% lose. Scum have always had to recognize that protections can stop their win. As for Popular vs MYLO, that is by definition circular from your POV

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<blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/Kohai" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Kohai</a> on 7/11/2026 at 12:50 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=20" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#20</a>)</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/ILikePie5" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">ILikePie5</a> on 7/11/2026 at 1:46 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=18" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#18</a>)</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/Kohai" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Kohai</a> on 7/11/2026 at 12:17 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=17" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#17</a>)</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/whiteflame" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">whiteflame</a> on 7/10/2026 at 10:33 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=16" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#16</a>)</blockquote><blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/Kohai" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Kohai</a> on 7/10/2026 at 6:47 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=14" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#14</a>)</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/Wryly" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Wryly</a> on 7/10/2026 at 2:27 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=13" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#13</a>)</blockquote><blockquote>I supported the draw when I believed you that your role was unstoppable. It's unusual, but so is two Vigs. Now? Yeah that was definitely MYLO by either definition up for debate here, not that it doesn't pain me to say so.</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>The vig was only 1 shot. They used it n2 otherwise it would no doubt be MyLo</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>This is part of the problem I have with your position on this: you're selecting two roles (Doc and Vig) that could have affected the outcome of the game, and ignoring another role (Redirector) that could have (and in this case, would have) affected that very same outcome. I get why Doc and Vig matter when it comes to your view of how MYLO should be defined, I just don't get why manipulative roles don't.</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>It really boils down to MyLo: Mislynch and lose. If it is possible for town to mislynch and not lose then it isn't MyLo. I think that's where I'm coming from.</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>But that’s circular logic when it comes to the Popular Townie. Also, in that case it would just be LYLO,</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>If it wasn’t for the popular townie and the doctor it would be objectively MyLo. This is one of the biggest challenges in designing roles that disable in MyLo is determining when MyLo actually begins.</blockquote> Okay, but it isn’t Mislynch and 100% lose. Scum have always had to recognize that protections can stop their win. As for Popular vs MYLO, that is by definition circular from your POV

(Last edited by whiteflame on )

#22

--> @Kohai

Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/11/2026 at 1:17 PM (post #17)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/10/2026 at 10:33 PM (post #16)

Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/10/2026 at 6:47 PM (post #14)

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/10/2026 at 2:27 PM (post #13)

I supported the draw when I believed you that your role was unstoppable. It's unusual, but so is two Vigs. Now? Yeah that was definitely MYLO by either definition up for debate here, not that it doesn't pain me to say so.

The vig was only 1 shot. They used it n2 otherwise it would no doubt be MyLo

This is part of the problem I have with your position on this: you're selecting two roles (Doc and Vig) that could have affected the outcome of the game, and ignoring another role (Redirector) that could have (and in this case, would have) affected that very same outcome. I get why Doc and Vig matter when it comes to your view of how MYLO should be defined, I just don't get why manipulative roles don't.

It really boils down to MyLo: Mislynch and lose. If it is possible for town to mislynch and not lose then it isn't MyLo. I think that's where I'm coming from.

But that’s my point: with the Redirector in play, it wasn’t possible. Is your point that, since it was theoretically possible that we didn’t know there was a Doc or who the Doc was at that point in the game, that there was still a chance Mag1c could’ve successfully prevented the NK? I guess in that purely theoretical sense, sure, but again, that just seems to be excluding relevant information. And I recognize that including that info in evaluating when MYLO happens requires the mod to take a lot more into account, but that’s part of the problem with your perspective from where I’m sitting. You can’t just stop considering that info at some arbitrary point without inviting a lot of questions as to why you’re stopping there.

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<blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/Kohai" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Kohai</a> on 7/11/2026 at 1:17 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=17" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#17</a>)</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/whiteflame" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">whiteflame</a> on 7/10/2026 at 10:33 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=16" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#16</a>)</blockquote><blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/Kohai" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Kohai</a> on 7/10/2026 at 6:47 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=14" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#14</a>)</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>Originally Posted by <a href="/users/Wryly" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">Wryly</a> on 7/10/2026 at 2:27 PM (post <a href="https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/mafia-discussion/posts/7e/official-discussion-poll-when-does-mylo-occur?comment_number=13" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank">#13</a>)</blockquote><blockquote>I supported the draw when I believed you that your role was unstoppable. It's unusual, but so is two Vigs. Now? Yeah that was definitely MYLO by either definition up for debate here, not that it doesn't pain me to say so.</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>The vig was only 1 shot. They used it n2 otherwise it would no doubt be MyLo</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>This is part of the problem I have with your position on this: you're selecting two roles (Doc and Vig) that could have affected the outcome of the game, and ignoring another role (Redirector) that could have (and in this case, would have) affected that very same outcome. I get why Doc and Vig matter when it comes to your view of how MYLO should be defined, I just don't get why manipulative roles don't.</blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><blockquote>It really boils down to MyLo: Mislynch and lose. If it is possible for town to mislynch and not lose then it isn't MyLo. I think that's where I'm coming from.</blockquote> But that’s my point: with the Redirector in play, it wasn’t possible. Is your point that, since it was theoretically possible that we didn’t know there was a Doc or who the Doc was at that point in the game, that there was still a chance Mag1c could’ve successfully prevented the NK? I guess in that purely theoretical sense, sure, but again, that just seems to be excluding relevant information. And I recognize that including that info in evaluating when MYLO happens requires the mod to take a lot more into account, but that’s part of the problem with your perspective from where I’m sitting. You can’t just stop considering that info at some arbitrary point without inviting a lot of questions as to why you’re stopping there.

#23

--> @ILikePie5

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/11/2026 at 12:48 PM (post #19)

Do yall support the draw? I think it’s only fair to give the win to scum. Wryly and I are in agreement and that makes 4 players out of 10. Need 2 more

Is this a democratic procedure? Yes, I support the scum win.

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Forum signatures are bullshit. Nobody wants to waste their time and bandwidth reading something they have read 29,998,559,671,349 times before.

#24

--> @ILikePie5

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/11/2026 at 11:48 AM (post #19)

Do yall support the draw? I think it’s only fair to give the win to scum. Wryly and I are in agreement and that makes 4 players out of 10. Need 2 more

idc who wins, ya i messed up so it’s okay if maf win

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#25

--> @Kohai

Thats 6, you can give em the win

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#26

--> @ILikePie5

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/11/2026 at 8:02 PM (post #25)

Thats 6, you can give em the win

Ok it's decided. Mafia wins

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"Kohai, your entrance to the thread was legendary, you had a solve and a winning PoE right when you showed up, super impressive stuff, even more so considering it wasn't even your objective!!" - Zrein

#27

--> @ILikePie5

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/11/2026 at 1:48 PM (post #19)

Do yall support the draw? I think it’s only fair to give the win to scum. Wryly and I are in agreement and that makes 4 players out of 10. Need 2 more

Yeah the draw is weird

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