Two other pick up artists i used to follow
Marni Kinrys (often called “Marni the Wing Girl”) teaches a style of dating advice aimed mostly at men who feel they are too passive, too nervous, or stuck as “just friends.” Her approach combines confidence-building, flirting, communication, and understanding women’s perspectives. ([Fox Business][1])
Her main tactics can be summarized like this:
### 1. Stop acting like a “friend” when you want romance
* Don’t become the emotional support guy who listens endlessly to her relationship problems while hiding your attraction.
* Show romantic intent early through flirting, playful teasing, and creating chemistry.
* Her idea is that women categorize men partly based on behavior: if you act purely platonic, you reinforce a platonic role. ([Summarize.ing][2])
### 2. Confidence over approval-seeking
A major theme:
* Don’t try to “win” a woman’s approval.
* Express yourself instead of performing for her.
* Be comfortable with rejection.
She often contrasts a “nice guy” (passive, afraid of conflict, seeking validation) with a genuinely good man (confident, respectful, assertive). ([listennotes.com][3])
### 3. Flirt instead of interviewing
She argues many men make dates feel like job interviews:
* “What do you do?”
* “Where are you from?”
* “What are your hobbies?”
Instead:
* Use humor.
* Playfully challenge.
* Share stories.
* Create emotional experiences.
Example:
Instead of:
> “Do you like traveling?”
More like:
> “You seem like someone who would either love an adventure or secretly prefer a luxury hotel. Which one?”
### 4. Escalate gradually
Her method emphasizes avoiding two extremes:
* Never making a move → friend zone.
* Moving too aggressively → uncomfortable.
The idea:
1. Conversation
2. Playful flirting
3. More personal connection
4. Physical closeness if signals are positive
5. Date/romantic escalation
Her “F Formula” is built around combining flirting, psychology, and authentic personality rather than using rigid pickup lines. ([The Wing Girl Method][4])
### 5. Demonstrate social value
She teaches concepts like:
* Having your own life.
* Being socially connected.
* Not acting desperate.
* Being someone who chooses rather than someone begging to be chosen.
This overlaps with the psychological concept of being “preselected” — people often find someone more attractive when others value them.
### 6. Be playful and slightly challenging
Examples:
* Light teasing.
* Calling out funny behaviors.
* Not agreeing with everything.
Her philosophy is that attraction often requires some tension, not just kindness.
### 7. Lead interactions
She encourages men to:
* Suggest plans.
* Make decisions.
* Communicate intentions clearly.
Not controlling — more like:
> “I know what I want, but I respect your choice.”
### 8. Listen to women as individuals, not as a “code”
One of the stronger parts of her approach is that she tries to teach men to understand women’s experiences rather than treat dating as a mechanical trick system. ([The Wing Girl Method][5])
## My assessment:
The useful parts:
✅ Be confident
✅ Don’t hide attraction indefinitely
✅ Avoid neediness
✅ Develop social skills
✅ Flirt and create fun
The weaker parts:
⚠️ Some pickup-style concepts can oversimplify women into a formula.
⚠️ “High value” language can sometimes encourage performing rather than genuine self-development.
⚠️ Attraction is not just tactics; compatibility, timing, values, and emotional maturity matter.
A healthier summary of her method would be:
**Become a confident, interesting person; show interest clearly; create playful chemistry; respect boundaries; and don’t abandon your own dignity trying to be chosen.**
[1]: https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/wing-girl-makes-dating-her-business?utm_source=chatgpt.com "‘Wing Girl’ Makes Dating her Business | Fox Business"
[2]: https://summarize.ing/video-96837-Get-Her-To-See-You-As-A-LOVER-not-a-Friend-Female-Dating-Coach-Explains-HOW?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Summary of Get Her To See You As A LOVER not a \"Friend\" | Female Dating Coach Explains HOW"
[3]: https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-open-bedroom/ep219-why-women-dont-want-t0HDv-PCpVc/?utm_source=chatgpt.com "EP#219: Why Women Don't Want Nice Guys With Marni Kinrys | Listen Notes"
[4]: https://www.winggirlmethod.com/special/ff/fformula-g/?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Flirting Formula"
[5]: https://winggirlmethod.com/about/?utm_source=chatgpt.com "About Marni | The Dating Coach for Men"
David DeAngelo is best known for popularizing the **“Cocky & Funny” (C&F)** approach in the early 2000s pickup-artist community through his program *Double Your Dating*. The central idea was that attraction is created not only by being nice or impressive, but by projecting confidence, playfulness, and a willingness to challenge.
His main tactics:
### 1. Cocky + Funny = confidence without arrogance
The formula:
* **Cocky:** Show self-assurance, act like you value yourself, don’t seek approval.
* **Funny:** Use humor to make interactions enjoyable.
The goal was not literal arrogance, but a playful attitude of:
> “I like myself, I’m having fun, and I’m not trying to convince you to like me.”
Example:
Her: “I’m really picky about restaurants.”
Him: “Good, I was worried you were going to say you loved every chain restaurant. That would have been a dealbreaker.”
(The joke creates playful tension.)
### 2. Tease instead of praise
DeAngelo argued that many men over-compliment women too early:
* “You’re so beautiful.”
* “You’re amazing.”
* “I can’t believe someone like you would talk to me.”
Instead, he promoted playful teasing:
* Lightly challenge her.
* Joke about harmless quirks.
* Create a back-and-forth dynamic.
The underlying idea: **don’t put someone on a pedestal.**
### 3. Avoid seeking validation
A recurring theme:
* Don’t ask, “Do you like me?”
* Don’t over-explain yourself.
* Don’t try to prove your worth.
Instead:
* Assume you are someone worth knowing.
* Let attraction develop naturally.
### 4. Use “frames”
A major pickup concept he taught was controlling the “frame” of an interaction — the assumptions and emotional tone.
Example:
Less effective:
> “I hope you think I'm interesting.”
C&F frame:
> “Let’s see if we get along.”
The second implies both people are evaluating each other.
### 5. Create playful challenges
Instead of constant agreement:
* Have opinions.
* Disagree respectfully.
* Make conversation more dynamic.
Example:
Her: “I love reality TV.”
Him:
> “I knew there was something suspicious about you.”
The purpose is playful tension, not insulting.
### 6. Use humor as social proof
Humor signals:
* Comfort socially.
* Intelligence.
* Emotional control.
* Lack of desperation.
He argued that a man who can make a woman laugh while staying confident often creates stronger attraction.
### 7. Lead rather than chase
Similar to other pickup teachings:
* Suggest activities.
* Move interactions forward.
* Don’t wait passively.
Example:
Instead of:
> “Would you maybe want to hang out sometime?”
More:
> “You seem fun. Let’s grab coffee this week.”
### 8. The “freeze” concept
A controversial tactic associated with his school:
* If someone gives little effort or attention, don’t chase harder.
* Pull back and maintain your own value.
The healthier interpretation:
> Match investment; don’t beg for attention.
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## Criticism of the method
**What works:**
* Confidence is attractive.
* Humor creates connection.
* Not being needy improves dating.
* Playfulness is often a genuine part of flirting.
**Potential problems:**
* If used as a performance, it can come across as fake.
* “Negging” (backhanded insults disguised as teasing) can be disrespectful.
* Treating attraction as a set of tricks ignores personality, compatibility, and emotional intimacy.
A modern, healthier translation of David DeAngelo’s philosophy would be:
**Be comfortable with yourself, don’t pedestalize others, bring humor and energy, express interest clearly, and interact as an equal rather than as someone seeking approval.**
