Domestic wall of elite consensus breaks on trans issue

Started by bubbatheclown

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#1 •••

The American Society of Plastic Surgeons has issued new guidelines recommending that sex reassignment surgeries not be performed on children under the age of 19.


Previously, while there have been lone experts in the US and large institutions in non-US Western countries that have dissented from the current US oligarch consensus on the issue (that it's bigoted "misinformation" to so much as question the wisdom of sterilizing and castrating children), this marks the first full-scale rebellion by a medical professional association of that size (it employs more than 11,000 physicians globally) within the US itself. And it comes on the heels of a recent jury trial in New York of all places, where a teen girl who surgically transitioned into a trans man and subsequently regretted the decision and detransitioned was awarded $2 million in damages ($1.6 million for "past and future pain and suffering" and $400,000 to cover medical expenses, including therapy). This is the first time in American history that a lawsuit on said topic resulted in said outcome, and it'll most likely inspire a flurry of further lawsuits like it.

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#2 •••

Oh, and apparently the American Medical Association has just followed suit, declaring that sex reassignment surgery ought to be deferred until adulthood.

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#3 •••
@bubbatheclown

So much for that censorship campaign trying to exploit children for medical profit....

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#4 •••
@bubbatheclown

This might be the first thing the medical association got right. Gender changes should be an adult decision.

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#5 •••
@Debby

Interesting that The US declares 19 year olds, to not be adult.


Even when they would be deemed capable of military service at the age of 18.



Nonetheless a wise move by US Medical Associations....Which in my opinion should be extended to include a ban on medical intervention, as well as surgical.

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#6 •••

Ahh the entire medical profession chiming in to state the fucking obvious.

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#7 •••
@bubbatheclown
where a teen girl who surgically transitioned into a trans man and subsequently regretted the decision and detransitioned was awarded $2 million in damages


thats a good strategy to become a millionaire. So trans surgeries have economic benefit as well.

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#8 •••

I dont really see point in surgery of female to male.


Male to female is usually benefit in looks.


Female to male, you just get a dildo you have to carry. tho you can choose size of dildo, so its not all bad.

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#9 •••

"Penis size depends on patient preferences and the skin flap harvested from your body. Thinner patients with less fat on the skin flap will have a penis with less girth. Alternatively, patients with a greater amount of fat will have a thicker penis."



https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/treatment-tests-and-therapies/phalloplasty-for-gender-affirmation


Yeah, I can totally feel bad for anyone who ends up with thin penis. thats like the worst type of penis, superior only to 1 incher.

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#10 •••
@SatanLucy

Imagine waiting 19 years before you can make that decision.

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#11 •••
@Debby

I can say for sure, if you cant get thick long penis, dont transition to male. You will regret it.


Skinny penis is an abomination.

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#12 •••
@SatanLucy

Why would you want to carry more fat around? It can be concealed easily in public.

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#13 •••
@Debby

I have spent a lot of time watching hentai and studying penises. I know what I am talking about.

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#14 •••
@SatanLucy

You don’t need a penis for AI girlfriends. You need musical talent.

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#15 •••
@Debby

I have invented a very specific scientific method which is based around measuring my feelings more accurately.


Feelings can be scientifically observed as well, by observing something and then writing down a feeling.


You simply make a list of things, and then from that list, exclude things which are inferior in producing feelings when observed.


You keep reducing list until you are left with only the best feeling.


this scientific method is simply based around making a list and then comparing and excluding from list all the bad, and all the less good, until only best remains.


this scientific method converts amount of positive and negative feelings into a working list of data.

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#16 •••
@SatanLucy

Is your penis part of the list?

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#17 •••
@Debby

My penis isnt good enough.

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#18 •••

Sick ideologies exist on both wings.


We shall wait to see if the so scalled Christian Right bring Epstein friend rapist and trafficker Trump to justice.

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The US is a definitively secular nation, founded on complete separation of the State and religion. The Left Wing of US realise this but don't realise that pure freedom requires as low tax and free access to guns as possible. The Right Wing of US don't realise that secular pure freedom means the LGBTQ+ and abortion agendas both end up in line with US's liberty-first ethos.

It is left-wing to be pro-life. You are backing poor babies being born at the inconvenience of the already-born. Go figure.

#19 •••

Trump might have to refund the money he made from selling bibles.

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#20 •••
Sick ideologies exist on both wings.

We shall wait to see if the so scalled Christian Right bring Epstein friend rapist and trafficker Trump to justice.


I don't think we can count on the so-called Christian Right to bring Trump to justice; it was the far-right "Christian Nationalism" that put him in power and unleashed project 2026.


Of course, Christian Nationalism isn't Christian, it's just nationalism.


If you want to see a great documentary about it, watch "Bad Faith", it's a frightening, but important documentary.





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#21 •••
@Sidewalker

Your tribe is on life-support until your universal scapegoat is taken out to pasture after the 3 years he has left in office. Enjoy the temporary parole and reprieve.

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#22 •••
@Shoresy
Your tribe is on life-support until your universal scapegoat is taken out to pasture after the 3 years he has left in office. Enjoy the temporary parole and reprieve.


No way he lasts three more years.

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#23 •••
@Sidewalker

Trump looks healthier than Biden. He is already saving for his retirement.

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#24 •••

bot...and trump lover...

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#25 •••

Majority of Americans love Trump and re-elected him to a second term.

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#26 •••
@Debby

Trump 49.8%


Harris 48.3%


Other 1.9%


So:


49.8% voted Trump


50.2% didn't.


In fact, no majority.


There again, turn out was only 64%.


So 36% couldn't be arsed.


Not sure how all that equates to TRUMP LOVE.




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#27 •••
@SergeantLynch

Trump was elected twice as President by winning the most popular vote. And if the 2020 elections weren’t stole that would have made him 3 times president.

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#28 •••
@Debby

Like I said, 49.8% voted for him and 50.2% didn't.


And 36% couldn't be arsed to vote.



In fact in 2016, 46.1% voted Trump, 48.2% voted Clinton and 5.7% voted other, so 46.1% voted Trump and 53.9% didn't.


And 39.9 % couldn't be arsed to vote.


Clinton was actually the most popular in 2016.

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#29 •••
@SergeantLynch

First, when people say “majority support,” they usually mean more people favor X than any other single option. That’s not the same thing as saying “over half of everyone.” In the real world, especially in large populations, opinions fragment. When you have more than two choices, the winner is often just the largest slice, not half the pie.


Second, most voting systems don’t require 50.1% to function. They’re designed to produce a decision, not philosophical unanimity. If three or four options are on the table, demanding an absolute majority would mean constant reruns, paralysis, or backroom coalitions instead of outcomes.


Third, turnout matters more than people realize. “Majority of voters” is not the same as “majority of the population.” If 60% of eligible people don’t vote, then 40% turnout becomes the universe — and a “majority” of that group might represent 20–25% of everyone. That’s still legally valid, even if it feels unintuitive.


Fourth, preferences aren’t binary. Many people mildly support something, strongly oppose it, or don’t care at all. Voting systems usually flatten that complexity into a single checkbox. So what wins is often the option with the least resistance, not overwhelming enthusiasm.


Fifth, geography matters. In representative systems, votes are aggregated by districts, not poured into one national bucket. You can win more districts while losing the overall vote count, because the system prioritizes distribution over raw totals. That’s not a bug — it’s a design choice.


Sixth, coalition logic replaces raw majorities in many systems. Parties or candidates don’t need 50% on their own if they can assemble support across groups. That’s why phrases like “governing majority” often refer to alliances, not vote totals.


Seventh, historical systems evolved under scarcity and slow communication. Requiring absolute majorities made sense in small assemblies; it collapses at scale. Modern societies traded mathematical purity for stability and decisiveness.


Eighth, the idea that legitimacy equals 50.1% is mostly rhetorical. It sounds clean and fair, but it’s rarely how institutions actually operate. Legitimacy usually comes from rules agreed to in advance, not the emotional comfort of the margin.


Ninth, this is why phrases like “the will of the people” are always approximations. There is no single will — there’s a distribution of preferences, filtered through rules, turnout, districts, and constraints. The output is a result, not a moral census.


Tenth, once you see this, a lot of political outrage makes more sense. People argue past each other because one side is talking about procedural validity, while the other is talking about emotional legitimacy. Both feel real, but they’re not the same thing.


First, let’s get something straight right out of the gate: vote totals are not a census of public opinion. They’re a count of who bothered (or was able) to show up on a specific day, under specific rules, in specific locations. Treating raw vote totals as a perfect measure of “popular support” is like measuring national fitness by counting who went to the gym on Tuesday.


Second, this is why polls exist. Polls are explicitly designed to measure opinion, not participation. Good polls weight for age, income, education, region, race, and turnout likelihood. Voting does none of that. Voting just shrugs and says “hope the right people showed up.” If your goal is understanding what people think, polls are structurally better tools than ballots.


Third, turnout is never 100%, and that fact alone breaks a lot of people’s mental models. If only 60% of eligible voters vote, then 40% of the population has zero representation in the outcome. At that point, a “majority winner” could represent barely a third of the adult population — and that’s not a scandal, it’s just arithmetic.


Fourth, this is how minority rule happens without anyone cheating. Imagine 55% turnout, and the winner gets 51% of that vote. Congratulations: you now have a government chosen by about 28% of eligible adults. Perfectly legal. Perfectly procedural. And absolutely not “the will of everyone.”


Fifth, polls routinely capture opinions from people who don’t vote, can’t vote, or won’t vote. Those opinions don’t disappear just because they weren’t cast into a ballot box. Ignoring them because “they didn’t vote” is a moral argument, not a statistical one — and statistics do not care about scolding.


Sixth, this is why you’ll often see situations where a policy polls at 60–70% support but fails electorally. That doesn’t mean the polls were fake. It usually means the supporters were less motivated, less organized, younger, poorer, or geographically inefficient. Again: participation ≠ preference.


Seventh, voting systems are designed to produce decisions, not to measure sentiment with scientific precision. Elections answer “who governs?” Polls answer “what do people believe right now?” Confusing those two questions is how people end up yelling about legitimacy when the system is doing exactly what it was designed to do.


Eighth, when someone says “the people rejected this,” what they almost always mean is “the subset of people who voted, under these constraints, at this time, produced this outcome.” That sentence is just less emotionally satisfying, so it gets shortened into something misleading.


Ninth, none of this means elections are bad or polls are perfect. It means they do different jobs. Elections allocate power. Polls describe opinion. Treating elections as opinion surveys is like using a fire alarm as a thermometer.


Tenth, once you understand this, a lot of political outrage suddenly looks… confused. People argue as if low turnout magically grants moral authority, or as if 50.1% of voters equals unanimous consent. It doesn’t. It never has. And pretending otherwise is how adults manage to be shocked by math they were warned about in advance.


First, the United States is not a single political culture with a single set of preferences. It’s a federation of states, each with its own economic base, demographics, history, and priorities. Treating the country like one big opinion blob and demanding a single national popular majority misunderstands what the system is even trying to represent.


Second, the Electoral College exists precisely because states are the relevant political units in federal elections, not individuals floating in a national soup. The presidency is not the CEO of “America, Inc.” It’s the executive of a union of states that retain distinct identities and powers.


Third, a majority of electoral votes is more representative of competing state cultures because it forces a candidate to win across regions, not just pile up votes where people are densest. Winning California by five million doesn’t tell you anything about Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Arizona, or Georgia — and the system is deliberately designed to care about that.


Fourth, this is where district-level aggregation matters. Electoral votes reflect majority support within states, which themselves are internally diverse but politically coherent units. That means outcomes represent distributed consent, not just numerical dominance by a few megacities.


Fifth, without this structure, national elections would collapse into urban monoculture rule. Campaigns would rationally ignore rural states, interior regions, and minority political cultures entirely. The Electoral College forces candidates to acknowledge that the U.S. is geographically and culturally plural, not just statistically populous.


Sixth, critics often say “but someone can win without the popular vote,” as if that’s a flaw rather than the explicit tradeoff. The system prioritizes coalition breadth over raw headcount. You don’t win by exciting one giant bloc; you win by stitching together multiple state majorities.


Seventh, this matters especially in a federal system where states administer elections, set many policies, and retain sovereignty. A president who wins the Electoral College has demonstrated viability across governing jurisdictions, not just appeal to the largest population centers.


Eighth, calling this “minority rule” misses the point. It’s multi-majority rule: majorities in enough distinct states to form a governing mandate. That’s a different concept than “50.1% of individuals,” and pretending they’re interchangeable is a category error.


Ninth, the Electoral College also stabilizes the system. It localizes disputes, limits incentives for nationwide recount chaos, and prevents elections from hinging on razor-thin margins in a single dense region. Again: decisiveness over mathematical purity.


Tenth, once you stop thinking of the U.S. as a single crowd and start thinking of it as a coalition of semi-autonomous societies, the Electoral College makes sense. It doesn’t measure popularity. It measures federal legitimacy. And confusing those two is why people keep having the same argument every four years like it’s new.


First, let’s dispense with the comforting myth: Canada and the UK are not governed by majorities. They are governed by pluralities, often small ones, inflated into absolute power by parliamentary mechanics. This is not democratic subtlety; it’s mathematical sleight of hand.


Second, in Canada, the Prime Minister is not elected by the public at all. Canadians vote for local MPs. The PM emerges afterward, selected by party machinery. This already introduces distance between voter intent and executive authority — but it gets worse.


Third, because votes are split across multiple parties, the winning party routinely secures power with well under 40% of the national vote. In recent elections, governing parties have taken office with roughly one-third of voters supporting them. Two-thirds voted against them — yet the PM governs as if crowned.


Fourth, defenders say “that’s how parliamentary democracy works,” which is not an argument — it’s a shrug. The system converts fragmentation into dominance. The more divided the electorate becomes, the less consent is required to rule. This is the opposite of representative legitimacy.


Fifth, the UK has the same disease, merely wrapped in older furniture. A party wins a plurality, translates it into a commanding majority of seats, and then rules with unchecked legislative power. The Prime Minister can pass sweeping policy changes despite most voters preferring someone else entirely.


Sixth, this is what people carefully avoid saying out loud: parliamentary systems reward minority cohesion, not majority agreement. If your side is unified and everyone else is split, you win everything. Not because the country agrees — but because the system mistakes order for consent.


Seventh, contrast this with the U.S. Electoral College, which refuses to crown a leader unless they assemble multiple majorities across distinct states. You don’t get power by being the largest faction in a fractured room. You get power by persuading different societies with different priorities.


Eighth, Canada and the UK centralize power after fragmentation. The U.S. forces coalition-building before power. That single difference explains why parliamentary systems slide toward elite managerial rule while the Electoral College resists it.


Ninth, when Canadians or Brits say “the people voted for this government,” what they actually mean is: the system translated a minority preference into executive authority. That may be legal. It is not the same thing as majority support — and pretending otherwise is intellectual dishonesty.


Tenth, the uncomfortable truth is this: Canada and the UK are ruled by minorities wearing majorities as costumes. The Electoral College is blunt, unfashionable, and endlessly criticized precisely because it refuses to perform that illusion. It demands breadth. Parliamentary systems demand compliance.

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#30 •••
@Shoresy

Yes, but just pointing out to Debs that in both 2016 and 2020 Trump was not elected by a majority of those who bothered to turn out.


And yes pleasing all of the people all of the time is impossible because:


A. Some of the people all of the time do not want to be pleased as per the pleasurers requirements.


B. Some of the people all of the time are just plain contrary.


C. Most people all of the time always think that they know better and could do a better job...Even though they would never ever do so.



So we are left with those who do want a go, and some even get to have a go for a while, until everyone, especially media lobby groups decide it's time for a change


And let's face it, it's actually a shit job, trying to juggle cash and time to administer to the needs of the whimsical and overdemanding people, whilst simultaneously promoting and defending the peoples needs within a broader global context.


There is no perfect solution.



And in my opinion the role of the US President should be to represent all of the people all of the time, rather than some of the people all of the time, and not criticising and poking fun at all the rest all of the time.

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