Red flag in the US: one of three Democrats identifies as Socialist

Obama promised ACA wouldn't become socialist, that it was just extra welfare along capitalism, and that if you liked your choice of doctor or plan, you could keep it.

That promise was broken long ago.

Then make that argument.

I don’t need to, this isn’t a matter of opinion. Look up the definition of socialism, look up what the ACA actually does, note that there is no overlap whatsoever.

—> I would prefer a single payer system,

Oh, while you are at it, argue that this isn't socialism either.

It’s a lot closer to the socialism that the ACA, but under single payer all medical providers and drug makers are still privately owned, the only thing the government takes over is the insurance market. You can call me a socialist for that if you want to, it just makes your definition essentially meaningless which is why I’ve asked over and over and over again in this thread for you guys to start talking about the policies and underlying philosophy itself, but you all prefer to just talk about labels. Cause apparently that’s where you can own the libs, or so you seem to think.

Let me get that straight. Are you for the current Obamacare or the program Obama proposed initially?

My answer was not ambiguous.

I am for the ACA in that it was better than what we had before. When a politician passes legislation that *improves* our situation, that’s a good thing and I grade it as such.

I also said I (probably) prefer a single payer system. In other words, old system - bad, ACA - better, single payer - best.

I don’t think I can make that any clearer.

Because Obama proposed more taxes for the Obamacare. That proposal was refused but the current program operates in a similar way which is to force people to subsidize the medical insurance of the rest.

Yeah, that’s how every society under progressive taxation works. If that’s socialism, then every developed nation on earth is a socialist country.

I'm catching a whiff of socialism in your argument, to be honest. It's also possible that as the Democrat militant that you are, you don't want to make Obama look bad.

This is just stupid, and frankly pointless little quip to throw out there. I will say though, that what I would criticize Obama for is not going far enough. He had a democratic super majority and could have passed a single payer system, but he thought it was so important to bring republicans to the table.

He wanted this bill to have bipartisan support because he believed that the longevity of the law would be protected only if republicans joined in, so he did everything he could and made every concession he could get away with to court their votes, and ultimately passed what on paper republicans should have cheered - a free market system that forced everyone to pay into, only for them to all vote against it anyway and then go on to use their own unified opposition against him to claim he was the most divisive president ever. So pathetic.

Cause apparently that’s where you can own the libs, or so you seem to think.

Projection much? You are the ad-hom factory on this site.

 the only thing the government takes over is the insurance market.

Again, Obama promised this wouldn't happen with his 40+ televised lies defending ACA about keeping your capitalized health care choices.

Why do you want more of this?

Obamacare falls far short of universal healthcare.

Projection much? You are the ad-hom factory on this site.

It’s not projection when I’m explaining exactly why I’m making the point that I’m making. do you have a response to the actual point, or does the mindless retort of “projection” satisfy your need to feel like you sufficiently handled my post?

Again, Obama promised this wouldn't happen with his 40+ televised lies defending ACA about keeping your capitalized health care choices.

Why do you want more of this?

Want more of what? Healthcare for people who weren’t previously able to afford it? Please explain.

mindless

Thanks for proving my point. Everyone normal can clearly see your inability to perceive yourself. I hope you find all the shallowness you can owning people with your ad-homs.

Please explain

Nah, I'll pass. You seem to want to level up the definition of bad-faith discussions with repeated ad-homs. Every explanation will have diminishing chances of getting past that self-imposed barrier.

Double_R wrote:

Yeah, that’s how every society under progressive taxation works. If that’s socialism, then every developed nation on earth is a socialist country.

Well, that's all what I wanted to read. I have no more questions for you. It's pretty much clear to me that deep down you're a confused socialist who doesn't know where he stands.

Do you know who thought the same way? Yes, Marx and Engels. For them, progressive taxation was a double edged sword because on one hand high taxation can provide society with a fair welfare, but on the other hand it was a weapon to erode capitalism and transition to a socialist state. And it's true, progressive taxation can make a country reach a point in which capitalism is unsustainable and the economy wobbles because of the capital flight. No entrepreneur wants to stay in a place where the government clean them out with high taxes. Just see how people in California are fleeing to other states because an imbecilic lefty thought that progressive taxation was a good idea.

Don't bother answering me, I see the picture clearer.

Before Regan tax rates were between 70-80%

Well, that's all what I wanted to read. I have no more questions for you. It's pretty much clear to me that deep down you're a confused socialist who doesn't know where he stands.

What a perfect encapsulation of how unserious you are.

After starting a whole thread on the dangers socialism, you have yet to engage in a single substantive discussion about it, and after I point out the *fact* that every developed nation on earth has some form of progressive taxation you tell me that’s all you wanted to read. Exactly, that’s all you wanted. You didn’t want information, you didn’t want to understand an alternative viewpoint, you certainly didn’t want your world view challenged, you just wanted that little snippet that you could use to keep throwing around a label that you’ve been brainwashed to believe is bad with no apparent understanding of why.

—> or does the mindless retort of “projection” satisfy your need to feel like you sufficiently handled my post?

I hope you find all the shallowness you can owning people with your ad-homs.

So you don’t even know what an ad hom is, while appealing to it as an excuse to run away. Noted.

Try explaining it to him.

Try explaining it to him.

I did already. The chances of him understanding it… effectively 0%

an excuse to run away. Noted.

Confirmed: you are just here to "own" people. Thanks for admitting that every post from you comes from a bad-faith premise.

All you can do is keep trying till he gets it.

That’s up to the courts to decide.

Double_R wrote:

After starting a whole thread on the dangers socialism, you have yet to engage in a single substantive discussion about it, and after I point out the *fact* that every developed nation on earth has some form of progressive taxation you tell me that’s all you wanted to read. Exactly, that’s all you wanted. You didn’t want information, you didn’t want to understand an alternative viewpoint, you certainly didn’t want your world view challenged, you just wanted that little snippet that you could use to keep throwing around a label that you’ve been brainwashed to believe is bad with no apparent understanding of why.

Bullshit. You're putting all the developed countries in the same bag when this is not true. Taxation is very different in the US and Europe. Europe can fuck you up with high taxes while in the US you pay much less which allows you to accumulate more capital for your business. That explains why there are more technological development in the US than in Europe.

But, hey, if you say you're not socialist, then you aren't. But there is some truth in all of this, you're the useful idiot of the left.

So you don't have consistent principles then.

Left wing men identify as logical, but they're emotional. Monotonic people can still be emotional.

Americans pay lower taxes than Canada. That is why they don’t have universal healthcare.

Debby wrote:

Americans pay lower taxes than Canada. That is why they don’t have universal healthcare.

Noooooo shit!!

You've just discovered the powder, dear AI. Lol.

The majority of Americans don’t have universal healthcare just so billionaires pay lower taxes.

But they've got lots of other stuff, so just need to prioritise.

Meanwhile the national debt increases. It is currently 40 trillion dollars.

America has a pedophile and a sexual rapist as their president. They definitely need Carney as their prime minister.

You're putting all the developed countries in the same bag when this is not true. Taxation is very different in the US and Europe.

Stay with with me here.

You argued that I'm a socialist in part because I believe in progressive taxation system.

So I explained to you that every developed nation on earth has some form of progressive taxation.

The very clear implication there is not that every tax system is the same, the conclusion is that support for progressive taxation does not make one socialist unless you are defining socialism in such a way that it applies to every developed nation on earth, at which point your definition is useless.

Do you understand?

Europe can fuck you up with high taxes while in the US you pay much less which allows you to accumulate more capital for your business. That explains why there are more technological development in the US than in Europe.

There is a plethora of reasons to explain per technological advancements over other countries, you have done nothing to show how this one factor is decisive.

you're the useful idiot of the left

A statement I might find worth examining if I were talking to someone who actually understands how all this works beyond the ability to hurl them around as pejorative labels. Unfortunately that has yet to be demonstrated.

America has the largest national debt in the world exceeding 40 trillion dollars. The billionaires pay lower taxes than your average schoolteacher… quoted by Warren Buffet.