Given maga is more about dysfunction than conservatism, how much sense does it make for libertarians to favor maga than moderate or conservative dems

Im curious of yalls response

Dysfunction of a dysfunctional government is a function.

Kinda like a double negative is affirmative.

Dysfunction of a dysfunctional government is a function.

.. Long live the dysfunctional King and his most ardent dysfunctional MAGA supporters. Reversion back to olden times of the power hungry at any cost. Ex Januaruary 6th attacks on USA Capital. Thanks for nothing except unnecessary violence....

AI.. 'he function of a king is frequently compared to that of a dictator because both roles concentrate immense, often unchecked political power in a single individual. '..

Ukraine takes another hit --30 civilians killed-- as commuters board train. So much for those who think Putin is about peace, when he has USA giving him money for diesel fuel, because the King and Netan-yahoo went to war with Iran.

Unnecessary bombs away do not keep doctors away nor inflation, nor many many other woes for USA's melting pot of citizens.

..' Early Mentions: Writer J. Hector St. John de Crevecoeur used the concept in 1782, describing how individuals of all nations in America are melted into a new race of men '..

https://www.tenement.org/blog/adapting-to-america/

That might make sense as an abstract statement but it dont make sense applied to the specifics of our country or conservatism

Or do you think conservative values are by their nature dysfunctional ?

MAGA conservatives are dysfunctional.

Today's American conservative is Bill Clinton because of the window shift toward communism.

In 2016, the two major political parties gave me a choice between the last two people on earth that I would vote for. Since I couldn’t vote for either major party candidate without vomiting, I supported the Libertarian candidate, Gary Johnson (In retrospect, weird Gary John. Every single Trump supporter I knew told me I was voting for Clinton, and every single Clinton supporter said I was voting for Trump. I wasn’t, I was voting for Johnson specifically to not be voting for either Trump or Clinton. I hate that most everybody was voting against something, rather than for something.

But this election is different, I think it’s imperative that we join together to fight against what is happening under Trump and MAGA (MAGA is not the Republican Party btw) and the best way to do that is to vote Democrat. The only chance to minimize the damage Trump is doing to this country lies with Democratic control of Congress. The Republican congress has consistently failed to check his excesses and stand up for the American people and defend our democracy. 

So, in response to the question of “how much sense does it make for libertarians to favor maga than moderate or conservative dems”, I would say it makes no sense at all. As your title says, “maga is more about dysfunction than conservatism”, especially considering that MAGA has nothing whatsoever to do with conservatism, it is all about extremism. 

Under Trump’s influence the Republican party has become unrecognizable, Republican in name only, and all of the positive aspects of the Republican party that Libertarianism drew from, are gone from this thing MAGA misrepresents as “Republican”.  I was a Republican my entire adult life until Trump came along and destroyed all the good that was in the Republican party, I suppose that’s why I’m so bitter about it, it my party that he destroye, and my country he’s trying to destroy. 

Let’s look at the positive Republican values that Libertarians believe in, but that are no longer Republican values.

Primarily,

Libertarians hold “individual liberty and personal sovereignty” as its highest values.  Trump’s party is authoritarian to the core, demanding submission to authority, strict control over individual freedoms, and the concentration of power in a leader or ruling elite that is not constitutionally accountable to the people, as such, Trump’s MAGA movement is diametrically opposed to the Libertarian values of “individual liberty and personal sovereignty”.

The Libertarian Non-Aggression Principle claims no person or government has the right to initiate force, coercion, or fraud against anyone, Trump’s party is lawless, aggressive, and violent, it’s fair to say MAGA is primarily motivated by force, coercion, and fraud, transgressing everything Libertarians stand for.

Libertarians advocate for a Limited Government, and this is probably the worst thing about Trump’s corruption of the Republican party. Back when I was a Republican, we believed in smaller government, but it was about more than just fiscal responsibility, it was about the sacred line drawn between government and our personal lives, a smaller government meant the government had a smaller footprint in our lives, we control the government rather than the government controlling us. 

Personal Freedom is necessarily freedom from excessive government interference and control, at one time, the Republican party embodied those values in it's commitment to smaller government. The right to privacy guaranteed by the first, third, fourth, fifth, ninth, and fourteenth amendments was sacred, the message was that the government had to stay out of our personal lives, that our private lives are none of governments damn business. Narrowly defining the role government plays of our lives used to be a core American value, there is a reason the bill of rights was all about limiting the government’s power and influence over our lives. Freedom and liberty were understood to be a guarantee freedom from government involvement in our personal lives. 

The Republican party has completely violated that sacred demarcation, they have turned politics into a culture war, encroaching on our privacy and forcefully making our personal lives their business. They try to make LGBTQ the enemy despite the fact what we do in our bedroom is none of their business, they have replaced the polarity between the people and their government by polarizing the people against one another, making our private lives their business, and divisiveness their tactic.  In a relatively shott period of time, our gender, race, social standing, education, sexual preferences, religion, etc. went from none of their damn business, into a matter of defining our political identity. MAGA is attacking our solidarity as Americans, eliminating our privacy and freedoms, and trying to suppress democracy in favor of authoritarian control. This is where MAGA has completely betrayed the values that Republican’s once shared with Libertarians.

Libertarians support Non-Interventionist Foreign Policy, generally opposing "entangling alliances," foreign wars of choice, and high military spending, Trump courted libertarian voters with just this commitment, but it was just another Trump lie, Trump’s Iran war is unnecessary, and a betrayal of the trust voters put in him.

This is turning into a rant, and I could go one and on for days, but I think the point is made. 

libertarians stand outside of the standard left-right or Democratic-Republican traditions, but MAGA has become the common enemy of Democrats, Libertarians, Independents, and millions of Republicans like me. MAGA has made this election the most “us/them” election we’ve ever had, they have turned it into a culture war, and they have put all these groups into the “them” category of their opposition. We face a common threat and need to come together as a people to fight against this enemy within. This election is not just a political referendum, its about morality, ethics, and decency, it’s a matter of our identity as American people, and we need to act as one people and fight to take our country back.

"We must all hang together, or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately" -  Benjamin Franklin

George Washington and the Founders saw political parties as threats to national unity and stability, a view shaped by their experiences with the factional conflicts of 18th-century Great Britain. 

As a functioning democratic system, the somewhat corrupted US political system is currently dysfunctional.

I truly believe the fight against maga is mostly a fight between the informed versus uninformed. And 30 percent of the country still support him... well ten percent of the country is ignorant, ten percent are stupid, and ten percent is evil. Theres your 30 percent

FLRW wrote:

George Washington and the Founders saw political parties as threats to national unity and stability, a view shaped by their experiences with the factional conflicts of 18th-century Great Britain. 

And from the soil of wanton tyranny socialism and equality blossomed.

So every voter should pass a citizenship test before voting.

That will be tough on all the anti-American universities you have pumping out fresh communists. Nobody in this thread would pass one. They would fail at the first question about democracy or a republic.

Libertarians love government shutdowns. If anything, they're the only people for whom it makes sense to support dysfunction in the government. I actually think Trump's biggest problem is that he's a bit too effective at enacting policies harmful to the country.

"We only wish trump was less effective enacting harm to the country"

Said by some side show clown libertarian

I also think the 'smart' maga supporters and even those who merely vote for him and dont support him, are almost always, without fail, pseudo intellectuals. Thats rampant on this website for sure

"We only wish trump was less effective enacting harm to the country"

Said by some side show clown libertarian

There are people who want him to be more effective at harming the country? Aside from his supporters? Not sure if they count though, cause they wouldn't consider it harm.

Remember the civil war. Americans wishing harm on Americans while the world stood by.

linate wrote:

I also think the 'smart' maga supporters...

That's what you think of smart maga supporters? How about now you tell us what you think about the tooth fairy and unicorns.

Debby wrote:

Remember the civil war

Damn Debby, just how old are you.

Just better informed.

Im curious of yalls response

I share your instinct in that there’s a clear absurdity to supporting MAGA while calling oneself a libertarian.

One thing I will say, is that it’s not as bad so long as they are talking about MAGA in an ideological sense, in other words if they think of MAGA as what Trump sold it as. But if we think of the movement as tied to him and everything he’s done; starting unnecessary wars, across the board tariffs, the US government taking large shares of stocks in public companies… then it truly falls apart.

But even then, Trump has always talked about things like unleashing deportation forces into American cities, going after women who have abortions, using the power of the federal government to bully US companies, etc. so just because it’s more reasonable when compared to everything he’s actually done doesn’t make it coherent.

I think the problem here is the same problem republicans have always had; their entire appeal and ostensible political core is based on pushing for a set of principals they do not actually believe in. They talk about Christian values while being perfectly fine letting poor people starve. They talk about small government while being perfectly ok telling people who they can marry, what decisions parents and their doctors are allowed to make with regards to their own children, or what rules local sports leagues are allowed to enforce. They talk about fiscal responsibility while blowing up the federal deficit every single time one of their own gets into office. They talk about the value of merit while cheering as a reality TV star appoints a Fox News host to run the US military, a couple of podcasters to run the FBI, and his own personal defense attorney to run the DOJ. They don’t believe in the values they espouse, it’s all absurd.

November3rd will decide all the above. The time for making excuses is over.

The title of the thread mistakes libertarians for conservatives in the first place.

Islam is one of the most conservative religions of all time. It's hilarious that anyone thinks conservative Christians have a real party in USA, they have capitalist pig vs capitalist cow.

Yes, thank goodness for the second amendment...There's always a solution waiting in the cupboard.

Islam is one of the most conservative religions of all time. It's hilarious that anyone thinks conservative Christians have a real party in USA, they have capitalist pig vs capitalist cow.

I wouldn't be surprised to see an El-Sayeed type on the GOP ticket soon. Democrats are already ditching the Islamic candidates over LGBTBBQ issues.

American White Men have no choice but to align with Islam at this point.

Putin for peace? AI ..' Timeline: The temporary truce began on October 29, 2026, and expired on Sunday evening, November 2, 2026. '.. Duhh, MAGA ignores truth of invaded who. Why do MAGAs head-space live so much in a false narrative? Is it they fear the King of Royal { non-sense }?

Some aspects of MAGA is such a false narrative joke. Putin begins a war, Trumpet/MAGA choose Putin and Kim Ungh Pooh over Democracy of Ukraine.

USA! USA! jhas been Putin-Pooh! Putin-Pooh! Janurary 6th and much worse corruption and violence support for few years now.

Some of MAGA = Mental Association of Gorgonic Apes.

The rest are a single trillionarre and billionaire CEOs. Rich getting richer and poor getting poorer for some 40 plus years now.

GreatfulGoy wrote:

The title of the thread mistakes libertarians for conservatives in the first place.

Islam is one of the most conservative religions of all time. It's hilarious that anyone thinks conservative Christians have a real party in USA, they have capitalist pig vs capitalist cow.

This is technically true but why would anyone even want this?

There are degrees of conservatism, and in any event it is not clear what is meant by “conservative Christianity”. How conservative? Jehovah’s Witnesses?

Most people who practice Christianity don’t want this.

I’d actually ask you to explain what you mean by this since I can’t quite put it into words. It seems to me you’re misusing words here

ebuc wrote:

Putin for peace? AI ..' Timeline: The temporary truce began on October 29, 2026, and expired on Sunday evening, November 2, 2026. '.. Duhh, MAGA ignores truth of invaded who. Why do MAGAs head-space live so much in a false narrative? Is it they fear the King of Royal { non-sense }?

Some aspects of MAGA is such a false narrative joke. Putin begins a war, Trumpet/MAGA choose Putin and Kim Ungh Pooh over Democracy of Ukraine.

USA! USA! jhas been Putin-Pooh! Putin-Pooh! Janurary 6th and much worse corruption and violence support for few years now.

Some of MAGA = Mental Association of Gorgonic Apes.

The rest are a single trillionarre and billionaire CEOs. Rich getting richer and poor getting poorer for some 40 plus years now.

You barely speak English mate, I don’t think you have the right to tell people what MAGA is or isn’t, go to school first lol