A decent social safety net... as a means of preventing fascism

Most of America is fascist. Most of the places in America don't allow any private enterprise without government permission. And even then, they restrict what you’re allowed to produce while controlling the market in entire sectors of the economy. Obamacare produced state-sanctioned insurance monopolies and Covid regulations produced state-sanctioned vaccine monopolies as well.

those welfare states are reason why insane dictators take power. Masses of people are retarded, and if government makes their life difficult, they will elect whatever insane idiot who promises them good things and liberty.

Apparently, bad enough government makes even insane candidates look good in comparison.

It's basically extortion rebranded as "compassion and welfare."

They make a mess and then force you to clap when they pretend to fix it.

Government policy breaks the economy → people struggle → politicians offer welfare as the “solution” → voters become dependent on the same system that caused the problem.

But Trump isn’t even promising them good things, he is in fact taking things away from them like the safety net of healthcare.

That uniquely makes his rhetoric brutally honest. That there is no free lunch, only trade-offs. There is nothing "safe" about a complicated "net" of regulations, creating market monopolies with no mechanisms for health care efficiencies.

An honest take would admit that a real practical safety net comes from hard-won social capital based on a unified culture working in unison, and could never be simply legislated without that critical foundation, which America has very little of in 2025.

USA has GDP which is larger than entire EU combined. USA is lucky to have budget which is only 25% of GDP. But this doesnt mean they should fall for promises of welfare which will increase budget to GDP ratio and harm economy like EU did to its economy. USA is greatest economy by far exactly because it didnt increase its budget to save every possible person who is failure in life.

Resources are limited, especially resources to grow economy. You cant waste many resources on people who will be failures in life anyway. People in USA are smart enough to not repeat mistake which Europe did. Even Obamacare was a mistake, but good thing healthcare only costs budget 2 trillions now (5 to 7% of GDP). Could have been a lot worse because leftists were in power for long.

Trouble is there are also estimated to be 500 million civilian owned guns.

Ain't that what the 2nd Amendment is all about.

As of late 2024, the United States' debt-to-GDP ratio is approximately 124%, indicating that the national debt exceeds the country's total economic output.

Most US debt is to US.

Who Owns U.S. Debt?

1. Intragovernmental Holdings: The U.S. government itself owns a large chunk, primarily through programs like Social Security trust funds.
2. Domestic Investors: Mutual funds, pension funds, insurance companies, banks, and individual Americans hold the biggest share.
3. Foreign Investors: Countries like Japan, China, and the UK are major foreign holders, but their combined share is smaller than domestic holdings. 

Key Foreign Holders (as of late 2024/early 2025):

1. Japan: Largest foreign holder, over $1 trillion.
2. China: Second-largest foreign holder, around $750-$800 billion.
3. United Kingdom: Third-largest foreign holder, significant holdings.
4. Other Major Holders: Cayman Islands, Canada, Luxembourg, Ireland, Belgium, France, Switzerland. 

On the contrary. It was Otto Von Bismarck (founder of the German Empire of WW1 fame) who established the modern welfare state. Which served to legitimize the authoritarian status quo of the day, and half a century later would be co-opted by Nazi Germany to legitimize its own self.

In a virtuous society, you don't have to bribe people to retain their loyalty to the republic. And in a non-virtuous one, they can just as readily be bribed by a different master who offers them more. People must be taught that this mindset is unacceptable.

Like I said, the U.S has the virtue of the Second Amendment.

One 'would think countries that can afford armies of soldiers, could afford armies of healthcare and social workers.

But that's the problem with established laws and contracts.

And why people in my view should create new countries, 'or organizations within countries.

"If the Great Enemy comes with offers of power to a wretch, what reason does he have to refuse hell if he dwells in it already?"

Guilliman, Devastation of Baal by Guy Haley

I assume there's often a connection between poverty and crime.

. . . But crime is not Fascism. . .

Assumption perhaps is that unhappy desperate people vote in dictators?

Poor population. . . Vs Great Depression.

There is a difference perhaps. .

Depressions not always easy to stop or control.

The Nazis, wasn't only because of the Depression and poor people, I think.

. . . Hm, an irony,

Propaganda, Beliefs, WW1 Treaty anger, political instability.

. .

The irony is perhaps one suggests educating the masses with the 'right information.

By the mandate and power of government.

Yet what do Dictatorships do?

Indoctrinate, Re Educate, Condition, Influence.

Not that 'non Dictatorships 'can't.

People are 'often attempting power and sway, influence, to result in ends of people and society that they desire.

Preventing fascism requires a multi-faceted approach involving individual actions, community organizing, and structural safeguards. Historically and in contemporary analysis, the most effective strategies focus on early identification, collective resistance, and the preservation of democratic institutions.

1. Political Action and Coalitions

Fascist movements often gain power by exploiting divisions within the opposition. 

1. Form "Popular Fronts": Successful anti-fascist movements often involve "unlikely bedfellows"—alliances between the center-left, far-left, and traditional conservatives who prioritize the survival of democracy over their ideological differences.
2. Vote Consistently: Historically, fascist leaders like Hitler used the democratic process to gain an initial foothold. Engaging in every election, donating, and phone-banking are critical "unglamorous" acts of prevention.
3. Pressure the Center-Right: Traditional conservatives play a decisive role; if they enable fascists by viewing them as "merely different" rather than a systemic threat, they often find their own systems revolutionized from within. 

2. Community and Individual Resistance

Fascism relies on the "normalization" of its rhetoric and the compliance of the public. 

1. Refuse to "Obey in Advance": Much of authoritarian power is freely given by people who adjust their behavior before they are even asked. Maintaining your values and resisting early demands for conformity is vital.
2. Remove Propaganda: Communities should immediately remove fascist flyers or stickers and replace them with messages of inclusion. This signals to fascists that they do not have a foothold and reassures targeted groups of their safety.
3. Expose and Fact-Check: Avoid debating fascists in a way that legitimizes their lies. Instead, circulate rebuttals of common talking points ("dog-whistles") to give community members tools to win personal arguments.
4. Protect the Vulnerable: Direct support for those targeted—such as immigrants, LGBTQ+ individuals, and minority religious groups—is a moral and practical necessity. This includes creating "sanctuary" spaces and escorting those being threatened. 

3. Structural and Institutional Safeguards

Ensuring that power is distributed can prevent a single movement from capturing the state.

1. Defend Institutions: Protect the independence of the courts, a free press, and professional ethics. When leaders set a negative example, individual commitment to professional standards (e.g., in law enforcement or healthcare) becomes a critical barrier.
2. Promote Federalism: Distributing power vertically (states vs. federal government) and horizontally (checks and balances) prevents fascists from making comprehensive changes if they capture only one part of the system.
3. Hold Big Business Accountable: Business leaders must be reminded that while fascism may seem to offer stability, it ultimately destroys independent economic power and labor rights, making it "bad for business" in the long term. 

4. Counter-Narratives and Vision

Fascism often fills a void left by the failure of existing systems to provide security or purpose. 

1. Offer a Transformative Vision: Prevention is not just about what you are against; it is about offering a positive vision of genuine equality and democratic empowerment that can compete with fascist mythos.
2. Maintain "Revolutionary Optimism": Avoid falling into despair, as fascists thrive on the "bluff" that their victory is inevitable. Taking joy in community and maintaining hope are acts of resistance. 

Im not ready yet to call trump a fascist

I can help you with that if you like…

The safety net is unsustainable under the current levels of fraud.

I thought DOGE got rid of it all…

The present corruption spotlights a real cost to embracing tribalism and diversity like a religious cult. It's a ridiculous and completely avoidable cost.

Americas safety net are tariffs which the immigrants pay because they like consuming what their country of origin produces. Producing the same products in America will only encourage more immigration.

They were working on eliminating a significant portion of fraud, but for some reason, they faced push-back, which is as absurd as it is to face push-back for such a thing

They weren’t facing push back. They were facing backlash, not for “working on eliminating fraud”, but for lying about the amount of fraud that was taking place. It was classic propaganda - pretend there is rampant fraud, blame this non-existent rampant fraud on democrats, then paint yourself as the hero coming to save the day. This both elevates yourself as the real “man of the people” who dares to go against the grain for the good of honest working Americans, while pretending the democrats are the pro-fraud party working hard to screw you over. It’s nauseating, but with at least some it clearly works.

Many people working for DOGE, in fact, seem frustrated that it's a bit harder to cut wasteful spending in government than in the private sector

It frustrating because it turns out government spending isn’t as wasteful as they’ve been propagandized to believe. Like when they fired people over at the department of energy only to realize that whoops… turns out those are the people guarding our nukes. Or when they fired all those pointless government doctors, only to find out that those people were needed to fight back against the avian flu which was sending the price of poultry and eggs soaring.

Just because you don’t understand why we need something doesn’t mean we don’t, it just means you’re ignorant. And that’s ok, we all are. The problem with MAGA is their pervasive inability to tell the difference.

Anyone who actually cares about creating a social safety net, though, should be opposed to open borders

Actually, what you’re calling “open borders” it turns out strengthens the social safety net. The people here illegally pay into the system but are legally prohibited from pulling from it, so unlike Americans in their comparable income brackets they’re actually a net positive.

But sure, let’s get rid of them, cause you know, ew brown.

and want some due diligence when it comes to benefits, without added bureaucracy

Due diligence is done by people. There’s always a way to improve efficiency, but the idea that the way to increase due diligence is by slashing your work force is ridiculous.

The Trump Gold Card is a proposed type of investor visa leading to a residency permit for the United States, announced by United States president Donald Trump, that would allow investors a fast track path to residency and citizenship if they donate at least $1 million USD to the government.

American white ethnonationalism has a fatal flaw; they are on stolen land in which the natives are held against their will under the invasive immigrant regime. This leads to a deep hypocrisy in American white ethnonationalism.

There is the massive added problem of slaves brought over. This has led to a group called Foundational Blacks or something, whom themselves have huge claim to the land like the whites do and have differing culture and values at times.

You cannot justify deporting them when your own people brought them over against their will and treated them so badly that you owe them.

Any white American that is fully dedicated to live in a land of their ethnicity and is focused on helping that tribe, should maybe take a DNA test and return to their tribal homeland in Europe wherever it is.

If not, drop the ethnonationalism. Simple.

@GGoy

Anyone born in North America is native.

And everyone that resides in North America, either settled there or is the ancestor of earlier settlers.

The tribal homeland is likely to be in deepest Africa.

It's just that some people prefer to start ethnicity clocks sometime after the beginning.

I don't know about America, but First Peoples in Canada are a huge reason why nothing gets built in Canada anymore.

So what? They own the land under ethnonationalism.

It is as simple as that.

You are the invasive ethnicity. You cannot have it both ways. Either drop ethnonationalism or surrender the land to the indigenous natives.

Nonsense @sergeantlynch