Has the United States has become a “Rogue Nation”?

Undeniably.

The Current President and Administration are untrustworthy...Both Nationally and Internationally.

Undeniably.

The Current President and Administration are untrustworthy...Both Nationally and Internationally.

I know you aren't American (you lucky dog), but you and I have made quite a few trips around the sun, so we have a pretty good sense of how things are supposed to be, and how America always was, did you ever believe such a thing was possible, that the US could go down this path?

It feels like we are trapped in a Fellini movie.

I have never really understood how it happened in Germany in the 1930s, I have contemplated it quite a bit as a subject of philosophy, trying to understand what it is about the German people that is so different than American people that it could possibly have happened the way it did, always seeing the question in terms of "different", different people, different time, different place, but never would have believed in a million years it could happen here, today.

I'm walking around in shock 24/7 that it's not that those people were just different 80 years ago, it's traumatizing to some to terms with the fact, it wasn't "them", it is "us", it's not what the world was like 80 years ago, it's just people, it is some deep flaw in human nature and we just have to own it..

Fuck.

Trump is actually ethnically German via his Father's. His family name was Drumpf.

I don't know why he feels more American than European to the extent he does when on top of that his mother was a 1st generation Scottish immigrant to US.

Hmmmmm.

Yes, concerning times for folk like you and I.

That the sensibilities of a nation can be flipped, by the white nationalistic rantings of a paranoid megalomaniac.

Especially a nation that we came to rely upon for global stability.

The next elections will be crucial...Other than that there is the second amendment...And I'm not joking.

If Trump et al attempt to interrupt or deny the nation the right to vote, then I see even bigger trouble ahead.

Hmmmmm.

Yes, concerning times for folk like you and I.

We are old enough to know the way things are supposed to be, and we have lived long enough to have seen the steady progress towards a better future.

That the sensibilities of a nation can be flipped, by the white nationalistic rantings of a paranoid megalomaniac.

I still can't believe that resonated with a majority here, I always knew there were white supremacists, but really thought they were fringe, and there just weren't enough of them to matter, but holy crap, never in a million years did I believe that shit would go mainstream. I saw it with my own eyes, and I still don't believe it.

Especially a nation that we came to rely upon for global stability.

We were supposed to be the one that protected the world from Rogue Nations, not become one.

The next elections will be crucial...Other than that there is the second amendment...And I'm not joking.

I agree, no way Trump is going allow "next elections" at all, but given the way his health is deteriorating, and the rapid mental decline, may be a moot point, I really hope so. If it happens, we'll find out just how deep this American lethargy runs, I'd expect an uprising of biblical proportions, but I'm to the point of having lost faith in Americans to log off their phones long enough to do something about it.

Other than that there is the second amendment...And I'm not joking.

I completely agree with you, and no, it's not a joking matter. Trump isn't going to stop until we stop him, there are no checks and balances to this Presidency, he owns the courts and the congress, he owns the Justice Department, he owns the cabinet, all we have left are 25th and 2nd amendments and nobody seems to have the balls for the 25th amendment, but he absolutely must be stopped. Maybe we can hope the military does the right thing, but I don't think we can count on it. One way or another, I don't believe he survives the full term, between his declining health, rotting brain, and the prospect of sudden onset of "lead poisoning", no way he can serve his whole term.

If Trump et al attempt to interrupt or deny the nation the right to vote, then I see even bigger trouble ahead.

No doubt he will try, he's consistently been an election denier, his polls are in the toilet, we know what's coming, and I'm not sure any traditional checks can deal with it. I hope the American people are ready to burn the whole thing down if that happens.

accepted international norms....

There is not a single norm accepted internationally. Do you know how many nations exist?

Political labels are only useful for propaganda.

“Rogue nation” has been a U.S. geopolitical label weaponized to justify real international atrocities for decades, and certainly not a "legal" standard. It’s been used to delegitimize states outside American preferences long before Trump: think Iraq (’90s), Iran (post-’79), Libya (pre-2003), Cuba (Cold War), North Korea.

American people falling for their own propaganda is just the world correcting itself.

Everything looks like a Fellini movie when a habit forms of denying reality and accepting propaganda. Totally normal for an ethnocentrist in a bubble, although, that's a whole lot of American propaganda to swallow to completely forget what America has done internationally during the past 5 decades.

There’s nothing mysterious happening now. No cosmic decline. No sudden moral inversion. Just a bill coming due for believing your own advertising.

Americans won’t feel so isolated if Trump annexes Canada, Greenland, Venezuela, Panama andIceland as he has promised . This will maintain the global balance if Russia succeeds in winning Ukraine.

Has the United States has become a “Rogue Nation”?

No.

America has always been a rogue nation. Look at the wars it waged against Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and more….

Has the United States has become a “Rogue Nation”?

No.

Maybe not yet, but it's hard to argue that we should still be considered a "responsible stakeholder", and maybe we aren't a rogue nation yet, but we are clearly moving in that direction.

...and I doubt if the International Community will ever again trust us enough to be considered "Leader of the Free World".

While I have read 'some history,

I'm not very 'well read.

. . . Leader of the Free World. . .

I'm not very well read on that idea for instance, cooperation between nations, the UN, international currency.

I recall that the French still wanted Vietnam as their colony for a while after WW2, but it didn't work out for them,

Britain had that Falklands War,

Dollar is common world currency,

USSR fell at some point. . .

Countries helped us with out ill planned Iraq war after 911.

. . .

What 'makes/made us leader of the free world?

I assume lot of other power just receded a bit after WW2, felt like focusing more on themselves and rebuilding.

America not 'so much world leader, as just happen to be only person 'out there.

Countries shrug and use us as cats paw, fund us, support us, trade back and forth.

Big seat at UN with some other countries, Veto powers.

Hm, countries with nukes.

Lesser countries letting us 'lead, just because they are trying to catch up.

China succeeded in catching up.

Others like Middle East 'wanted to catch up, Shah of Iran, Gaddafi, Sadam.

. . . Just because countries let person 'speak, give him stuff, or watch them move about,

Does this mean they are leader?

I am unsure. Am relatively young, born 1993.

. . .

Sidewalker, what made US Leader of the Free World?

. . . Hm, Leader of the FREE World, eh, we've long had shady actions in opposing free societies for money and ideology against Communism, even Communism freely chosen.

False Flag Gulf of Tonkin.

(Shrug) America is still a free nation, perhaps many doomsayers will see this better when Trump finishes his second term and does not have a third.

America is still big on individual freedom,

The people vote freely.

USA has money and guns. Leadership of the world isn't a popularity contest.

USA has money and guns. Leadership of the world isn't a popularity contest.

International Leadership requires establishing a common goal and articulating it in a way that makes others want to follow, it's about collective action towards a common goal.

Money and guns don't provide leadership, they can force compliance, but that isn't "leadership" by any stretch of the imagination.

The vision this country is articulating is not shared by the international community, there are no common goal, and consequently, no leadership.

USA will never be in a position to force its culture and values on any other country, because it can't protect its own culture from decay within its own borders...

Maybe at one time it could do that, never again.

"USA has money and guns. Leadership of the world isn't a popularity contest." Shoresy

That is why USSR led it's satellite countries, yes,

Why America leads it's states and some outside countries. . . Though I'd argue a number of states and some controlled countries 'want to follow America for reasons other than America 'forcing them to.

Some nations though, I do not think America led by virtue of threat.

Europe 'freely let America have leading role I think?

. . . Course Leading is not 'same as Forcing.

If tiny weak country tried to lead, not force. It would not work out I think.

America has led (To a degree) not 'forced, because of power and influence, but that power and influence was not necessarily force.

. . .

Popularity 'is part of leadership, though not 'purely what makes up leadership.

A strict unliked teacher may control a classroom better than a nonstrict liked teacher.

But maybe a strict liked teacher controls classroom better than a strict unliked teacher.

Great generals sometimes inspired their soldiers by how much the soldiers loved their general.

. . But competence is important, maybe key.

. . .

Sometimes people liking you is due to what you can give them, what you gave them,

. . . Though is it the 'liking why they follow, or the trade?

Liking is result sometimes, of successful leadership.

To be 'disliked, sometimes implies failure in leadership.

Trump has turned America into a Rogue State. Trump wants to own Greenland, wants to make Canada the 51st state and has taken over Venezuela’s oil.

Trump is rogue.

Therefore the USA is rogue by association.

It only takes one charismatic ideologue to mesmerize the unthinking and subvert the system.

And your two has's, though unimportant, are nonetheless obvious.

Yes, hopefully he will die soon and hopefully US style neo-nazism will be nipped in the bud.

And the drooling foot soldiers will once again return to venting their hormonally inspired angst, on all the other unsuspecting critters that dare to show their faces.

And your two has's, though unimportant, are nonetheless obvious.

Yeah, it started out a statement, then I decided to make it a question and made the mistake in editing it.

But at least, but you understood what I was saying.

It only takes one charismatic ideologue to mesmerize the unthinking and subvert the system.

That would imply that all it takes is one person to fix a nation.

Total bollocks.

I don't consider Trump a rogue leader.

Not sure that he plays by the rules, either internationally or nationally.

He seems to make up his own rules as he goes along.

What are your views on the Minneapolis and Portland shootings?

What are your views on the invasion of the sovereign State of Venezuela?

And for sure, social media is prone to misinformation and propaganda, but that applies to both sides of the argument.

"Fix" Odd choice of word....Could mean fix or could mean fix.

Nonetheless, figureheads are as figureheads do, and figureheads are the ones whose names usually go down in history, irrespective of their own ability to fix anything.

And one scrotum and two testicles is the general rule, and constitutes ones load.

Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Grenada, Panama, Serbia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Iran, Yemen, Pakistan, Somalia, Sudan, Niger, Mali....

"What are your views on the Minneapolis and Portland shootings?"

Mostly puzzlement at the incompetence of ICE to shoot people.

I think people are right to protest ICE, as ICE's methods frequently seem to be extreme and incompetent.

There should be more transparency and oversight of ICE.

I don't see why ICE 'need guns on hand. They could always have a 'backup team with guns if there was 'proven gun violence by some individual.

'If ICE should exist at all.

I am more in favor of decreasing immigration, legal and illegal, than going after people already here.

I'm not sure it's cost effective to go after illegal immigrants already here.

"What are your views on the invasion of the sovereign State of Venezuela?"

That it did not seem to result in a war with Venezuela.

That the American state 'did create legal justification/pretext for capturing/kidnapping Maduro.

. . .

. . . What do I think would it take for Trump and/or America to be considered rogue?

If Trump took office for a third term without changing The 22nd amendment to our Constitution.

If America (Currently) invaded Mexico, Canada, and Greenland.

. . .

Rogue,

What does that even mean internationally?

International laws are a bit of a joke, still a newish idea maybe.

Maybe there 'is no international law, we are not one nation, not really, even with the UN I think.

Nations pursue their own interests, war as they like,

International law is soft law, soft suggestion, soft implication that other nations may hurt a nation for action other nation dislikes.

America is still on UN, yes?

Then how we be rogue.

And even if we were kicked out or removed from the UN, I don't think this would make us rogue.

What even 'is rogue?

Germany in WW2 is not rogue, simply enemy.

A rogue in real life is bandit, outside of laws, but there 'is no world order quite.

Rogue is vague buzzword.

. . . There are ways Trump 'could invade Mexico, Canada, or Greenland,

That could be legal per American law, certainly in the short,

Dependent on congress in the long.

. . .

Let's say America 'did invade Greenland,

Still not 'rogue maybe,

Enemy of Nato 'maybe, but not sure I'd say rogue nation.

International law is 'suggestion maybe.

. . .

SergeantLynch, What are some historical or now examples of Rogue Nations?

Mostly puzzlement at the incompetence of ICE to shoot people.

I'd say they are very competent. They don't hesitate to meet the Fuck Around part of FAFO with the Find Out part.

When more than a handful of people think the FA part of obstructing the law is a good idea, that's insurrection and a civil war.

That will be the FO part. 1st amendment isn't a right to aid and abet the criminal lawbreakers whom ICE is arresting. FA seems to stand for more accurately in this case:

"Felony Around."

History is clear on this point: when enough people convince themselves that laws are optional, the force of law doesn’t disappear. It arrives later, harsher, and with fewer choices. People in Minnesota are a direct threat to the democracy that voted to enforce laws even in the lawless cities in the USA.