Started by linate
They aren't very educated so they dont realize hes not doin much actually to improve these things, and overall hes actually making it worse. Hes mostly just a one trick pony givin fat tax cuts to the wealthy at the expense of basic social services. They probably think hes cutting everyone's taxes but its actually at this point only for the rich
What you have to remember about trump supporters is that theyre low information and not too educated
Trump knows how to communicate with the low information, low income voters. They elected him twice
Looks like you decided this belongs in politics, good point.
They aren't very educated so they dont realize hes not doin much actually to improve these things, and overall hes actually making it worse. Hes mostly just a one trick pony givin fat tax cuts to the wealthy at the expense of basic social services. They probably think hes cutting everyone's taxes but its actually at this point only for the rich
I don't think they "falsely think he is so great cause he gets rid of 'waste, fraud, and abuse'" at all, that's just one of the many justifications they use because they don't want to admit that racism is the attraction. They say, "Sure, he's a terrible person but I like his policies", but when you ask they can't really come up with a policy, they say "economy" when he has collapsed the economy twice, they say immigration, but what they really mean is he hates the same kind of people we hate, and he promised to get rid of them for us. They can't really tell you what they are "for", all they have is what they are "against", and they are even willing to sacrifice democracy if it means eliminating diversity. Election denial isn't about fraud, there is no evidence of fraud, at the bottom of it is the belief that those other people's votes shouldn't be counted, that's their real problem with democracy.
All he really has to offer is a "culture war", nothing more than a shared hatred of LGBTQ, people of color, libs, and my favorite, "wokeness", which is just a word for the people they hate because they don't share their bigotry, those they consider "traitors to the race".
None of the aforementioned things are "policies", when it comes down to it, all he really appeals to is white grievance, he is only president because white supremacism has grown mainstream.
What you have to remember about trump supporters is that theyre low information and not too educated.
Yes, and it's exacerbated by the fact that when white supremacists try to explain it without admitting he had them at "racism", they sound comically stupid.
And Donald Trump knows it.
"I love the poorly educated" - Donald Trump
"Smart people don't like me" - Donald Trump
The majority think Trump is the face of America. They will elect him a third time if they could to remain in office.
Funny how no one is running to trumps defense here. The ones who dont believe all the lies and hype about trump just find other ways to cope with their nonsensical support of the con man
Lol, you guys are in a cult, clearly running with the false premise that USA has no fraud, racism isn't just a slang word for something I don't like, and the USA has "the most secure election ever" whenever your cult leaders tell you it is so. That doesn't even happen in high fiction.
Nobody is going to entertain any argument based on such nonsensical premises. You might as well say, "I am God, now try and debunk me!"
Only Trump offered any chance for a devout Catholic voter to end these 2 crimes against humanity happening and being normalised in US.
Thus any serious Catholic no matter how vile he was, had basically no choice but to vote for him over Harris.
Despite this, tge Catholic Church opposes him vehemently. The issue is those 2 issues are non negotiable for any serious Christian.
The US is a definitively secular nation, founded on complete separation of the State and religion. The Left Wing of US realise this but don't realise that pure freedom requires as low tax and free access to guns as possible. The Right Wing of US don't realise that secular pure freedom means the LGBTQ+ and abortion agendas both end up in line with US's liberty-first ethos.
It is left-wing to be pro-life. You are backing poor babies being born at the inconvenience of the already-born. Go figure.
Why do all the experts disagree with you and say theres no significant fraud? Is my expert talk all conspiracy theories to you? Do you even use credible sources for your news ?
And what does fraud have to do with the waste fraud and abuse points?
"The experts," is that what you guys call your cult leaders? How metropolitan.
“The Ministry of "Experts" has unrolled the sacred scrolls and issued its decree. All dissenters shall report to the nearest cosmopolitan asylum.” /s
It's as ridiculous as saying, "I am God, now try and debunk me!"
Hes mostly just a one trick pony givin fat tax cuts to the wealthy at the expense of basic social services.
This is the fundamental problem with the Republican Party and why Trump was able to take it over so easily; they have no policy ideas for how to make the country better economically because their fundamental approach towards governance is that governance itself is the problem. This creates an unavoidable contradiction - stay true to your stated core principals means doing nothing at all in which case you have nothing to run on, or intervene to make life better for ordinary people which means embracing democratic policies.
When you have nothing to run on, your only option is to lie (tax cuts will fix everything!) and then change the subject. That’s why they focus on culture war BS, and it works because when people are struggling they are angry, and anger needs a target.
(tax cuts will fix everything!)
Right, because what struggling workers really need is more of their production stolen with empty promises of a return on that stolen investment.... Like the empty promises in New York City.... 18 people dead due to cold in the richest city on the planet could only happen under a modern 5-year plan like Stalin sold to his workers.
running with the false premise that USA has no fraud
This is what it looks like when you have no argument so you have to make shit up instead.
No one is claiming there is “no fraud”, we’re pointing out that the fraud is no where near the level Trump claims, and to the extent he’s claiming to have gotten rid of it he’s just lying, and the reason he lies is clear; see your own posts.
the USA has "the most secure election ever" whenever your cult leaders tell you it is so.
So now the officials who worked under Donald Trump are the cult leaders. The projection is remarkable, “I know you are not what am I?” worked in third grade.
"The experts," is that what you guys call your cult leaders? How metropolitan.
There is no greater exclamation point on the absurdity of MAGA than watching them type experts in scare quotes. Because in MAGAville, the people who know best are not the ones who have been practicing something their entire lives and demonstrated their knowledge through consistent results, but rather the guy who talks about it on his podcast.
The refunds will still get higher as well because the plan is to replace the income tax with tarrifs.
I thought the plan was to bring manufacturing back to the United States, or weren’t these tariffs supposed to be leverage to negotiate better trade deals?
You do know that all of these stated goals contradict each other right? As in accomplishing any one of them necessarily decapitates the other two… right?
Right, because what struggling workers really need is more of their production stolen with empty promises of a return on that stolen investment
What workers need is intervention in a system designed to benefit those who already have wealth, leading to the natural and inevitable outcome where the middle class disappears and the gap between the rich and poor reaches society destabilizing levels.
The only entity that can possibly offer that intervention is the government, which yes, is funded by taxation.
Thanks for agreeing with my point on 5-year plan systems.
Why do all the experts disagree with you and say there's no significant fraud?
I didn't make that claim; you are arguing with the air.
What workers need is intervention in a system designed to benefit those who already have wealth, leading to the natural and inevitable outcome where the middle class disappears and the gap between the rich and poor reaches society destabilizing levels.
How has that objectively worked out in your "progressive states" over the past 5 decades....
Over the last fifty years, the places most committed to redistribution, regulation, labor expansion, and public spending were places like California, New York, and Illinois. These are not laissez-faire playgrounds. They are heavily governed environments. And yet, they lead the country in cost of living inflation, housing scarcity, capital flight, and some of the widest income gaps in the nation between the rich and poor.
So either heavy government intervention does not function the way you claim… or concentrated power and regulatory capture happen inside progressive frameworks too.
In a lot of heavily governed states like California and New York, the problem isn’t a lack of taxes and regulations. It’s that certain well-intended interventions have created artificial distortions and scarcity in the marketplace. Strict zoning limits housing supply. Environmental review delays construction. Rent control discourages new building. Licensing requirements limit who can enter trades. Those policies are loudly passed with the intention of protecting workers or tenants. Great idea on paper, but when the market supply gets constrained while demand stays high, prices rise, services fail, and it's not the rich who pay.
Who benefits? People who already own scarce assets, property owners, equity holders, and investment corporations.
Who gets squeezed?
Renters.
First-time buyers.
New entrants.
The middle class.
That’s the result of distorted markets where centrally-planned government intervention rules based on helping the working class unintentionally protect the wealthy and lock out the working class because those market distortions provide a lever for those who can exploit those distortions. America still has strong rules protecting private property, so market distortions will show up with a growing class of wealthy people who know how to navigate those distortions far better than any government agency ever could. And the government will then claim that their market distortions are "creating wealth" in those states when all that is really happening is an artificial transfer of wealth to people who can game the regulations and market distortions from those who think they can come out ahead without high levels of financial planning and investment. What America objectively ends up with is 50 years of perpetual 5-year Stalinesque plans creating economic distortions in those "progressive" states. And what's even more wasteful is when the government takes the confiscated wealth from the working class and is forced to subsidize private industry to artificially fix the market distortions that they originally caused with the previous interventions! The classic "dig a hole, fill it up," and call that "progress."
You can Google it. I think this year is the last of the middle class tax cuts. The only ones trump by design made permanent was the ones for the wealthy. Never mind the fact and you can fact check this that the one move that could have prevented the mist the American empire from collapsing due to our debt levels, is preventing the Reagan, Bush, and trump tax cuts. Borrow money from our kids to give to the wealthy? What could possibly go wrong?
The Catholic Church teaches that intrinsic morals like abortion have highest value in politics but you also have to remember that the Popes have said 'proportionate reasons' justify not making that issue the highest. I think overall the will of the people is what it is and a framework similar to roe v wade is what most people want. Its fair to argue especially now that roe has been reversed that abortion has a chance at real change but its a never ending uphill battle. Plus there r all kinds of intrinsically disordered issues every president is guilty of so why not focus more on the ones that have realistic chance at change? And perhaps most of all is the fate of our republic, republicans keep borrowing money to fund tax cuts to the rich which factually speaking is the one thing that has been done in recent decades to seal the fate of the end of our empire. Our empire is more important that a never ending battle about abortion. Plus democrats are more in line with catholic social teaching. I tend to the abortion issue for Catholics as a cop out to not make difficult choices. Its a fair issue, I just as someone who could see myself identifying as a liberal catholic (probably no papal infallibility) fundamentally disagree
You can Google it. I think this year is the last of the middle class tax cuts. The only ones trump by design made permanent was the ones for the wealthy. Never mind the fact and you can fact check this that the one move that could have prevented the mist the American empire from collapsing due to our debt levels, is preventing the Reagan, Bush, and trump tax cuts. Borrow money from our kids to give to the wealthy? What could possibly go wrong?
Democratic-controlled Congresses that passed major bailout/subsidy legislation for private industry:
• 73rd Congress (1933–1935) – Emergency Banking Act
Stabilized and recapitalized private banks during the Great Depression.
• 96th Congress (1979–1981) – Chrysler Loan Guarantee Act
$1.5 billion federal loan guarantees to bail out Chrysler.
• 110th Congress (2007–2009) – Housing and Economic Recovery Act
Stabilized mortgage lenders and reinforced Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac.
• 111th Congress (2009–2011) – American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA)
~$800+ billion stimulus with major funding flowing to private businesses, energy companies, infrastructure contractors, and state-connected industries.
• 111th Congress (2009–2011) – Auto industry rescue funding continuation
GM and Chrysler restructuring financed and overseen under Democratic majorities.
• 117th Congress (2021–2023) – American Rescue Plan Act
Massive business relief, PPP expansions, industry-specific subsidies, and sector stabilization funds.
• 117th Congress (2021–2023) – CHIPS and Science Act
~$52 billion in semiconductor subsidies to private tech manufacturers.
• 117th Congress (2021–2023) – Inflation Reduction Act
Hundreds of billions in energy and manufacturing tax credits and corporate incentives.
If the argument is “only Republicans subsidize private industry,” history doesn’t cooperate with that narrative.
I think you might be creating a strawman otherwise I dont know why you are making your arguments
You just seem to have selective outrage when it comes to "breaks for the wealthy".
I just listed trillions of dollars placed directly into the rich's hands at the cost of the working poor under your tribe, and you have nothing to say. Is this more of what you say..."expert" conditioning?
The wealthy are a buffer against a third world takeover.
A lot of the examples you gave were for the public good so I have no reason to share your outrage. Free market is generally best but theres no reason to be dogmatic about it. Plus crony capitalism is way worse under republicans
I actually dont trust the sincerity of the people who think we should have let the system collapse during the great recession. I mean it ain't fair to bail them out and not everyone but we need a functioning economic system not letting the whole ship sink out of ideology. I mostly think the people who say to let the system burn are just bein hard asses who think theyre cool cause they sound tough. Even tho their position taken to the logical conclusion makes no sense
That sounds exactly like the kind of excuse your "experts" would give you to spread around. That it's only bad when the other tribe does it and only good when their tribe does the exact same thing.
A lot of the examples you gave were for the public good so I have no reason to share your outrage.
Free market is generally best but theres no reason to be dogmatic about it. Plus crony capitalism is way worse under republicans
That's an insanely dogmatic take, and you probably don't even see it that way. How could you possibly come to the conclusion that "a lot" of those examples were for the public good if you had the capacity to think for yourself? Most of the examples had zero reasons to be of any benefit for the working class, and even your cherry-picked minority example of propping up failing banks is massively detrimental to the working poor as it basically rewards rich people for screwing poor people over with risky financing knowing they will force the working class to pay them back with debt and taxes later while paying experts to brainwash them to say "it's for your own good"...ensuring it will happen again and again...
I mostly think the people who say to let the system burn are just bein hard asses who think theyre cool cause they sound tough. Even tho their position taken to the logical conclusion makes no sense
If it's a system that primarily benefits rich people, and unlike you, I don't have selective tribal outrages regarding rich people, then yes, that system needs to pay the price and fail, and not have working people pay the price for them.
The bailouts often to my knowledge required being paid back, but dont let practical wisdom get in the way of your ideology
My ideology is that rich people who screw over the working class shouldn't be rewarded with interest-free loans subsidized by the working class. Feel free to selectively support rich people when your tribal experts brainwash you.
HopeTrump wins his 10 billion lawsuit against the IRS. So he can get back to running the government without any distractions.
