The loyalty of the poor leading to the collapse of the empire

No, in 2021, it wasnt. And US levels of inflation werent present in most countries or in most advanced countries.

This isn’t even ignorance at this point, this is clearly disingenuous.

The first tell is that you continue to cherry pick 2021 because you think it makes your case look better, while ignoring that inflation was a 3 year period.

You also qualify your statement by saying “US level” inflation wasn’t present in most countries, which based on your prior arguments is clearly an attempt to exclude countries whose inflation was slightly better even if quantitatively no different from the US.

You also still do not acknowledge that even according to your own numbers, inflation was in fact extremely elevated in most advanced countries around the world demonstrating clearly that this wasn’t a problem unique to the US and therefore was clearly not caused by Joe Biden, undercutting the point that this entire conversation is actually about.

All of this together goes to show that you aren’t a serious person on this, you are doing the very thing you are accusing me of doing, starting with a position and refusing to budge no matter how clearly you are shown to be wrong.

but because real wages decreased under Biden in 2021, I dont see how including other parts of economic calculation helps your case.

The only case I have made in this case is that your arguments here are nonsense. I know that’s difficult to parse but try. What you’re doing is exactly the same as the juror who thinks not guilty means innocent. They’re different things.

I don’t have to argue that Joe Biden did a great job handling inflation in order to argue that you cannot rationally defend blaming him for inflation. Those are totally different things. You are conflating them because you can’t tell the difference. That’s on you, not me.

Bringing this back to your point here, simply citing that real wages increased under Trump is, without further support (like explaining what he actually did to accomplish this) meaningless. You are comparing the two presidents purely by their economic results while ignoring the fact that they inherited two totally different sets of circumstances. Trump inherited a strong, growing and stable economy. Biden inherited an economy shut down over a global pandemic that Trump flagrantly mismanaged. That’s as apples to oranges as it gets.

Getting back to business causes 5 times higher inflation? Where did you get this calculation from?

It’s your calculation, you tell me.

And then logically, US should have recovered from inflation first, but it didnt.

That’s not got global economies work.

My god dude, talk to an actual economist.

I see that you are dodging my arguments and seeking excuses for Biden, making this conversation really pointless. Nothing in the wall of text you wrote even addressed my arguments.

Half of what you wrote aren't even arguments or anything, but classical bot lines such as "talk to economist".

And I don't think talking to economists helped you much. It only made you unable to respond to arguments, and just repeat what your propaganda instructor told you.

C. trump's first term is better than Biden's term, and by extension, better than Kamala's possible term

Yeah, this one odd worth repeating/ diving deeper into because of how absurd this is.

Donald Trump inherited the economy Obama handed him, which has been growing for 7 straight years. More jobs were created under the final 3 years of Obama than the first 3 years under Trump, so under Trump job creation actually slowed down. Trump also exploded the deficit, so economic gains during that time are not impressive, that’s the expected result when you decide to rack up the credit card during times when it’s not needed.

Biden meanwhile inherited the greatest unemployment we have seen in our lifetimes, and had to figure out how to get a vaccine distributed because the previous administration literally sabotaged the vaccine roll out due to the baby-in-chiefs temper tantrum over losing the election. Then once that was handled, he had to deal with the fact that businesses and factories not just here but all over the world had been closed down permanently, so while demand was roaring back, there was no way for the supply to catch up.

Comparing these two things is laughable. Any halfway educated person knows that in order to compare two things you have to isolate for their variables, which is extremely difficult to do when dealing with something as massively complex as a country’s economy. But to you it’s all the same. That’s why you continue to make these ridiculous arguments. Do better.

I see that you are dodging my arguments and seeking excuses for Biden

Translation: “I do not read, I just inject into your arguments whatever I find convenient for me. So even though this conversation started with a very simple claim I made, I’m just going to pretend you’re arguing affirmatively for that which I disagree with cause I can’t support my own conclusions”

Noted.

Trump inherited a strong, growing and stable economy. Biden inherited an economy shut down over a global pandemic that Trump flagrantly mismanaged

This is a classical bot argument, repeated, after being refuted previously.

The question only remains, why are you repeating refuted arguments?

Just when I thought he was going to stop blaming trump for what Biden did...

Never once in this thread blamed Trump for anything Biden did. this is purely made up. Pay attention, that would help your reading comprehension quite a bit.

Just when I thought he was going to say "Yes, Biden didnt do a good job in 2021".

I have never once on this thread weighed in either way on whether Biden did a good job on inflation. You hear me saying this because you’re not reading, you’re just rehearsing your biases. Pay attention.

This is a classical bot argument, repeated, after being refuted previously.

So… January 20th 2017 the economy was essentially the same as January 20th 2021. That’s what you’re going with? Really?

Any halfway educated person knows that in order to compare two things you have to isolate for their variables, which is extremely difficult to do when dealing with something as massively complex as a country’s economy

Actually, you don't control for variables in comparison because the very variables you control for could be caused by one of things you compare.

For example, we are not going to control for war in Ukraine, for possibility of Biden's contribution.

We are not going to control for what Biden inherited, because that is impossible variable to control for and would just give excuse to all politicians who inherit anything bad to make it worse, but we will study who improved economy more during his rule because that is what reasonable competent people do.

Did economy improve in 2021? The answer is no. While other countries actually saw economic improvement, USA was one of rare countries who in 2021 saw a negative, and reduction in wealth of citizens, and this was not inherited at all, but in fact happening long after Biden took power.

January 20th 2017 the economy was essentially the same as January 20th 2021

Trump left real wages 8% higher than they were when he took over, and guess what? The pandemic was actually most severe under Trump, not Biden. So to control for pandemic (which you can't even do, but your bot programming isn't yet advanced) is silly when both leaders spent a lot of time under pandemic.

But again, this is for people who do advanced studies.

It's not for someone like you who thinks "pandemic happened = Biden had no any role in increasing inflation".

I have never once on this thread weighed in either way on whether Biden did a good job on inflation

Sadly, your argument entirely depends on Biden doing a good job on inflation.

Because you already conceded that by default, leaders get blamed for what happens under their rule, to ensure their competence.

So unless you can show that entire inflation (not part of it) was out of Biden's control for entire 4 years, Biden gets blamed for that inflation.

Even Trump blames Biden for the high inflation he inherited.

We are not going to control for what Biden inherited

You’re just fundamentally unserious.

Your position is that we judge presidents by their results, full stop. And you defined that further by saying we judge presidents for whether they improved things.

So let’s apply that standard. Trump inherited a strong growing economy and left an economy in collapse, meanwhile Biden inherited an economy in collapse and left behind a recovered growing economy. But you praise Trump as having handled the coming better.

You get there because you cherry pick Trump’s best years while fixating on Biden’s worst. You say you’re not defending Trump, yet you shift the goal posts based on whatever makes him look better than Biden.

That’s every bit the bot behavior you accuse me of. Turns out to be pure projection.

Trump inherited a strong growing economy and left an economy in collapse, meanwhile Biden inherited an economy in collapse and left behind a recovered growing economy

this isnt true. In fact, trump government saw bigger real wage increase in 2017 to start of 2021, than both previous Obama and next Biden combined. So trump in fact increased real wage in 4 years more than Biden and Obama did together in their 8 years.

But to show you that I am not supporting trump, I have made a new thread where I show attack on Iran is terrible mistake.

We still don’t know what that will do to the US economy. Too soon to tell.

this isnt true. In fact, trump government saw bigger real wage increase in 2017 to start of 2021, than both previous Obama and next Biden combined.

So what? This is exactly the kind of cherry picking I’m talking about. Economies are massively complex, yet in order to give Trump high grades you focus on single statistics that you can tout while ignoring the greater picture.

I don’t blame Trump for Covid (even though his handling of it was horrendous), but your stated standard does, so why are you telling me about real wages during his first 3 years while the economy had collapsed during the 4th?

All of this is to save face because your original claim (the one this entire conversation is about) - that “inflation” logically supports that Trump’s economy today is better than what Harris’s economy would have been - is nonsensical.

But to show you that I am not supporting trump, I have made a new thread where I show attack on Iran is terrible mistake.

Appreciate that… I guess? But my point here isn’t that you’re a “Trump supporter”, it’s that you’re bending over backwards here to argue for him, not because you love him, but because you made an original claim and you’ve become fixated on proving it rather than exploring it in good faith.

The support for that last point is the way you have mischaracterized my position all throughout this thread. I never weighed in either way on whether Biden did a good job on inflation, I never blamed Trump for anything Biden did, I clarified numerous times that global inflation doesn’t mean every country experiences inflation all at the same time, etc. etc. etc. but you kept going back to attacking those made up positions, because you couldn’t support your own.

Trump told 30573 lies in his first term. He is expected to break that record in his second term.