Why Rape is not as bad as DUI

Ah yes, the ol' "measure human suffering" contest.

Yes, that's the topic.

I measure how bad a traumatic event is by how often people go to the hospital over it.

This is not a good standard as trauma isn't limited to physical.

That being said, it's pretty disgusting to suggest an intentional act of stealing another person's 'self' is not as bad as negligently driving under the influence (which doesn't necessarily cause harm). Clearly, this is a poorly considered argument or something grossly unserious.

negligently driving under the influence (which doesn't necessarily cause harm)

Oh yeah, it only harms over 200,000 people in USA each year. No biggie.

Oh yeah, it only harms over 200,000 people in USA each year. No biggie.

There are nearly 500k victims of sexual violence in the US each year. Spare me your mock outrage. There is no comparison between DUI and rape. Rape is a much more heinous and harmful crime.

There are nearly 500k victims of sexual violence in the US each year.

Moving the goalpost, sexual assault isnt rape. Someone grabbing your butt would be sexual assault, but its still way better than entering a car with a drunk driver.

Moving the goalpost, sexual assault isnt rape. Someone grabbing your butt would be sexual assault, but its still way better than entering a car with a drunk driver.

You are conflating sexual violence to butt grabbing. Yikes. ...talk about moving the goalposts. Your argument can not be serious.

You are conflating sexual violence to butt grabbing.

You said 500k victims per year. those are numbers of sexual assaults, not rape, and yeah, grabbing butt without consent is considered sexual assault. I dont see what confuses you here.

You said 500k victims per year. those are numbers of sexual assaults, not rape, and yeah, grabbing butt without consent is considered sexual assault. I dont see what confuses you here.

Are you going on record stating inappropriate and unwanted touching is a minor thing? Again...yikes.

Non-consensual touching falls under the sexual assault label which itself is included under the sexual violence umbrella. That in no way equates half a million sexual violence cases to ~500k cases of butt grabbing. Not to mention, nonconsensual groping is a crime for good reason.

That in no way equates half a million sexual violence cases to ~500k cases of butt grabbing.

Oh sure, 400k cases of butt grabbing, titty slap, or trump's "grab by pussy" - none of that is rape, its sexual assault. If you look at number of rape cases, its about 128k, assuming no false reports of course.

assuming no false reports of course.

It should be noted, you continue to minimize inappropriate and unwanted touching which is a crime.

False reporting is statistically low (2-10%) while un-reported sexuall assault (which includes rape) is as high as 80%.

you continue to minimize inappropriate and unwanted touching

No, the topic is about drunk drivers vs rapists.

unwanted touching as a whole has nothing to do with topic, but lets say it did. I would rather be touched by women without my consent 1000 times than be hit and killed by a drunk driver, or hit and severely injured by a drunk driver.

False reporting is statistically low (2-10%) while un-reported sexuall assault (which includes rape) is as high as 80%.

this is an assumption, because if its unreported, then you dont even know if it happened.

"approximately 1 in 5 women (about 19.3% to 26.8%) in the U.S. report experiencing attempted or completed rape in their lifetime. This translates to roughly 17.7 million to 33.5 million American women."

How many do drunk drivers hurt?

"In the United States alone—where the most comprehensive long-term data is tracked—alcohol-impaired driving has claimed roughly 400,000 lives and caused millions of non-fatal injuries since the mid-1980s."

"That rate corresponds to roughly 260,000 injuries per year (525,600 minutes ÷ 2).

Over 40 years, that would amount to approximately 10.5 million injuries."

"About 1 million people have been killed in U.S. drunk-driving crashes since the mid-1960s. Using the injury estimate from the previous answer (roughly 12–24 million injured), drunk driving in the U.S. over the last 60 years has likely resulted in around 1 million deaths and tens of millions of injuries"

So drunk drivers injure more people than all murderers and suicides combined.

the rate of injuries from drunk driving is 76 per 100,000. this is higher than homicide rates, suicide rates and rape rates combined.

The yearly reported forcible rape rate in the United States is roughly 37.5 per 100,000 inhabitants.

So I am afraid drunk drivers still injure more people than rapists.

Next topic can be drug dealers vs. rapists.

Rapists are more hated than drug dealers, even tho drug dealers kill 80,000 people per year in USA.

So drunk drivers are next to drug dealers, and both are worse than rapists.

OP was comparing DUI and rape, not drunk driving incidents and rape. Rape is the act of violating another person and is a literal description of harm. On the other hand, while driving under the influence is always a bad idea, it doesn't always cause harm.

If some movie horror scenario forced a choice between driving under the influence or raping someone, the former should ALWAYS be chosen because of this.

Next topic can be drug dealers vs. rapists.

Feel free to state your case in a dedicated thread. I have some thoughts on this subject.

OP was comparing DUI and rape, not drunk driving incidents and rape.

Driving drunk causes drunk driving accidents, and thus harm.

while driving under the influence is always a bad idea, it doesn't always cause harm.

this point is irrelevant. Maybe some women arent harmed by rape, but we are not going to say that rape is never harmful.

If some movie horror scenario forced a choice between driving under the influence or raping someone, the former should ALWAYS be chosen because of this.

If entire US population chose former, result would be 500,000 deaths per year and 30 million injuries per year. In just 10 years, it would be 5 million deaths, and 300 million injuries, rendering entire population effectively harmed to the point that society can no longer function long term.

Driving drunk causes drunk driving accidents, and thus harm.

Drunk driving causes accidents *sometimes, and thus causes harm *sometimes. Drunk driving is not directly equated to harm. Irresponsible, stupid, selfish? 100%, but harm is not a given.

Maybe some women arent harmed by rape

Some people aren't harmed by being violated you say? Thats incoherent.

Rape = harm

If entire US population chose former, result would be 500,000 deaths per year and 30 million injuries per year.

1 The CDC cites 125 million instances of driving under the influence every year. Your numbers are vastly overstated. [1]

2. How do you rationalize the chance of hurting someone as being worse than hurting someone?

Drunk driving causes accidents *sometimes, and thus causes harm *sometimes. Drunk driving is not directly equated to harm. Irresponsible, stupid, selfish? 100%, but harm is not a given.

Sometimes causes harm = causes harm

Some people aren't harmed by being violated you say? Thats incoherent.

the degree of harm greatly varies. Some people are not affected by it later at all. Some women even send love letters to their rapists.

The CDC cites 125 million instances of driving under the influence every year. Your numbers are vastly overstated

that is per one ride. It doesnt mean 125 million Americans are constantly driving drunk. the numbers which I gave came from a simple statistic that driving when really drunk increases chances of fatal accident by over 12x. So all current US deaths and injuries from car accidents would be multiplied by at least 10, if everyone was constantly driving really drunk.

How do you rationalize the chance of hurting someone as being worse than hurting someone?

thats easy. If I was given choice between punching someone, or pressing button where that same someone has 10% chance to die, I would just punch them. Maybe punch always causes harm, but death rate of 10% is greater harm generally.

I measure how bad a traumatic event is by how often people go to the hospital over it.

That's not a comprehensive measure though. 13% of rape victims attempt suicide. Suicide attempts have about a 10% success rate. So rape has about a 1.3% chance of killing someone. A single instance of drunk driving is probably safer than that, though if you are limiting this to DUI arrests, then it's a 1-2% chance of involving a death. But the majority of the time the person killed is the driver themselves. So just in terms of deaths caused to other people, rape is more harmful. There's also the trauma from being violated, which happens in 100% of rape cases but not 100% of DUI cases. Most of the time, the driver doesn't hit anyone. But just the fact that 13% of rape victims are so unhappy at some point that they try to kill themselves indicates that rape causes significant trauma.

So rape has about a 1.3% chance of killing someone

Almost all victims of rape are women.

Women commit about 10,000 suicides per year.

Even if we were to blame all those suicides specifically on rapists, drunk drivers kill 12000 per year, severely injure over 14000, and injure 270,000 each year.

But many women who commit suicide have other reasons for it.

In fact, the suicide death rate is way higher among men, even tho men are less raped.

That's not per capita though. Drunk driving is much more common than rape.

Reported number of SA is 500k per year. If we assume 50% is reported, then it becomes 1 million per year.

Number of women who commit suicide per year is 10,000.

Even if we blamed all those suicides on rapists and SA, the death rate would be 1%. But most of those suicides arent due to SA, so the death rate falls under 0.5%.

As I provided before, the injury rate from drunk driving is 76 per 100,000.

Reported rape rates are 34 per 100,000, and SA rates are probably 295 per 100,000 when assuming unreported cases.

That's not per capita though. Drunk driving is much more common than rape.

If everyone in society was rapist or SA, death rates from suicides for women would be 855,000, and this is even assuming current suicide rates from victims, and not that suicide rates change because women adapt.

Even if we were to assume 1% suicide rate, deaths would still be 1.7 million.

If everyone was a drunk driver, there would be 5 million deaths, 5 million severe injuries and 30 million injuries per year, as driving when really drunk increases risk of fatality by over 12x.

Reported number of SA is 500k per year.

We're talking about rape specifically, not SA in general. Estimate for number of rapes is a quarter of that.

RemyBrown wrote:

->Drunk driving helps you improve a skill.

No; it gets you in car accidents. The best way to learn to drive is to drive sober (the only way you should be driving).

Incorrect, this doesn't address my argument at all. It stands to reason that a driver who learns how to drive well under any sort of impairment would drive even better once that impairment is removed. Simply asserting the contrary position is not an argument.

->Drunk driving is an American tradition. The Founding Fathers famously attended many wine-soaked gatherings and, after a night of revelry and heavy drinking, would ride their horses home. 

The founding fathers didn't even have cars. And raping enslaved women was tradition. As a matter of principle; who CARES if it's tradition or not?

It doesn't matter whether they had cars or not, the principle is the same. A horse can also trample someone. Raping enslaved women was also not an American tradition. Enslaving them was, I'll grant you that. The fact that bastard children born of such unions were often covered up and the occasion of deep shame puts the lie to that idea. Drunk driving by horseback, on the other hand, was a proud and open tradition.

->How many of those 'drunk driving fatalities' were caused by innocent intoxicated motorists being waylaid and ambushed by malicious, sober ones - fat white women watching Lilo and Stitch on their phone while they carelessly mow down innocent pedestrians before colliding with a perfectly competent, if tipsy, driver and ruining his life? 

If you drive drunk, then you are not innocent.

Incorrect. That's like saying that an escaped slave could never be innocent because it was against the law to escape. Unjust laws demand resistance.

->The venomous hatred of drunk drivers is a moral panic. 

It's a moral imperative to hate drunk drivers; they are dangerous on the roads.

Not necessarily. I never said it was wrong or irrational to arrest and punish drunk drivers who drove unsafely - those are the ones who are by definition unsafe on the road. But there are also plenty who are safe. It is the unsafeness of the driving which deserves criticism, whether someone is texting, getting road head, sleep-deprived, or intoxicated. A drunk driver who drives safely is in my mind MORE admirable than a sober person who does so because they are expending more mental effort to ensure the safety of those around them.

->The modern world hates fun, so drunk drivers are maligned and pilloried by a hypocritical and nasty shrews because they have fun before they get behind the wheel.

You can have a beer, but don't get behind the wheel afterwards.

Don't tell me what to do, bucko.

->Driving while sleep impaired has been shown to cause just as many issues as driving with a BAC above the legal limit

You cannot control how tired you are; you can control how much beer you've had recently. Although tired people shouldn't drive either, it's not the same.

You absolutely can control how tired you are, what an asinine statement. It's called sleeping. And it is the same.

->This is because America's sick Protestant work ethic sees overworking yourself before getting behind the wheel of a car as 'virtuous' compared to downing a few brews with the homies.

America's "sick" protestant work ethnic attracts millions of Indians to leave their streets filled with cow shit where virtually nobody owns a car and your nation is so poor that your low IQ people from 3rd world shitholes argue that THIS is a hotel:

The American Protestant Work Ethic is उत्कृष्ट.

Wow, what a great argument against the Protestant work ethic! Thanks, I don't even have to type anything for this one.

Reported number of rape cases is 128k per year.

If we account for unreported cases, it could be still as high as 500k because around 30 million women report experiencing attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.

If we were to assume 1% suicide death rate among those women, it would be 300,000 deaths among them, or about 5000 deaths per year over 60 year period.

But such suicide rates dont exist, because women in total, all women commit 10,000 suicides per year. Most of those have many different causes. Depression, violence in marriage, caregiving obligations, trans issues...ect.

the claim that rape has 1% chance to drive victim to suicide is only true if you assume no one among 30 million raped women would commit suicide if werent raped.

But with standard suicide rates of 5 per 100,000 for all population of women, it means the 30 million by default would have similar suicide rate anyway, which is about 1500 suicides per year.

So only 3500 suicides can be potentially blamed on rape when assuming 1% suicide rate among rape victims.

that is about 8 times lower than number of people killed or severely injured by drunk drivers.

And when we account for SA too, death rate becomes much lower. So the claim of 1% death rate caused purely by rape is not true.

1% of 500k is 5k. There are 10x that many suicides in the US per year.

no one among 30 million raped women would commit suicide if werent raped.

Suicide attempt rate is under a percent normally vs. 13% for rape victims. So most suicides by rape victims are due to the rape.

1% of 500k is 5k. There are 10x that many suicides in the US per year.

Not among women. Suicides among women are 10000 per year.

Suicide attempt rate is under a percent normally vs. 13% for rape victims. So most suicides by rape victims are due to the rape.

Actually, the suicide attempt rate varies greatly among different groups.

there are 1 million suicide attempts in USA by women per year, while about 500k rapes probably.

Even if we were to assume 13% number (which is incorrect), it would mean only 65k suicide attempts out of 1 million are purely done due to rape, which is less than 7% of all suicide attempts.

Further, the number is incorrect because it assumes suicide attempt rate is purely due to rape, which it is not.

It is well known that rape victims actually already have high suicide risk before even being raped, because they are more often addicts, depressed, lonely, experienced violence, alcoholics, from bad households... these are all high risks for suicide, before rape even happens.

So the suicide attempt rate cannot actually be fully blamed on rape either.

Also, one can recover from rape, with enough support. One cannot recover from being killed by a drunk driver, or being severely injured by drunk driver to the point of life ruining.