Buddhism seems to be the best fit for human progress

Started by Misterio

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#1 •••

My argument is very simple. Buddhism is the most peaceful phylosophy or spiritual ideology that ever existed. The other religions, in contrast, created wars and unrest in the name of their "God".


Buddhism promotes peace and love. Christianity too but, contrary to what people think, it hasn't been very tolerant along its existence, creating violence and suffering to millions. Buddhism has no "God" to worship nor a beast to blame for our bad deeds.


Original Buddhism then seems to be the desired lifestyle for human progress.

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#2 •••
@Misterio

What branch of Buddhism in particular are you advocating?

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#3 •••

There are forms of buddhism, and even buddah testified of Jesus Christ. Calling him the Holy one.

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#4 •••
@Misterio
My argument is very simple. Buddhism is the most peaceful phylosophy or spiritual ideology that ever existed. The other religions, in contrast, created wars and unrest in the name of their "God".


Buddhism has had its fair share of wars and violence too.

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#5 •••
@melcharaz
There are forms of buddhism, and even buddah testified of Jesus Christ. Calling him the Holy one.


How is that possible if Buddha lived 500 years before Jesus?


Don't start, please. I can get very impatient with you.

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#6 •••
@Sidewalker

as what?

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#7 •••
@Leaning
What branch of Buddhism in particular are you advocating?


Not a branch in particular but I advocate the original teachings of Buddha.

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#8 •••
@Misterio

Where did you learn of the original teachings of Buddha?

What documents or culture can I refer to for common understanding of what is being discussed?

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#9 •••

Yes, the Buddha is older than Jesus. The Buddha lived and taught around the 5th century BCE, while Jesus was born about five centuries later, around the 1st century CE.  

The Buddha died at the age of 80 and Jesus died at the age of 33.

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#10 •••
@Misterio

No worries, i got proof.

Buddah prophecies of jesus

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#11 •••

Buddhism is often described as both a philosophy and a religion because it can be practiced as a practical, ethical, and philosophical way of life, or as a more traditional religion with supernatural elements like rebirth and deities

. While its core teachings on suffering and enlightenment can be viewed through a philosophical lens, many of its followers and traditional practices also include religious aspects such as rituals, faith, and belief in concepts like rebirth and various celestial beings. Therefore, the classification often depends on the individual's interpretation and practice. 

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#12 •••
@Misterio
Buddhism is the most peaceful phylosophy


In a world based on "destroy or be destroyed" gameplay, being peaceful just means being destroyed.

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#13 •••
There are forms of buddhism, and even buddah testified of Jesus Christ. Calling him the Holy one.


Cool, do you know if he happened to also mention this week's winning MegaMillions numbers?

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#14 •••
@Misterio
What branch of Buddhism in particular are you advocating?


Not a branch in particular but I advocate the original teachings of Buddha.


You mean pure and uncontaminated Buddhism, as found in Wikipedia?



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#15 •••
@Sidewalker
You mean pure and uncontaminated Buddhism, as found in Wikipedia?


What I mean is that Buddhim is very clear about their teachings. There is no space for uncertainty as there is in Christianity. So, it's very difficult that a son of a bitch can convince buddhists that they need to go to war to defend their "faith".


Besides, the key of its success is that Buddhism doens't have a God which people can fight for as it is in the Islam which exhort explicitly to use violence against the enemies.

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#16 •••

You dont understand the bible if you believe we are called to be physically militant against others. Our warfare is spiritual, even the bible telling us to obey those that have rule over us, and, the weapons of our warfare are not carnal.

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#17 •••

Come on. There is no progress. What did it ever do?

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#18 •••

I literally knew understood what buddhism was. It’s like they believe in gods and don’t believe in them at the same time.

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#19 •••

Search Rohingya genocide, then look into how Buddhist govt and military in Sri Lanka treated predominantly Hindu Tamils once the Brits left Sri Lanka.

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The US is a definitively secular nation, founded on complete separation of the State and religion. The Left Wing of US realise this but don't realise that pure freedom requires as low tax and free access to guns as possible. The Right Wing of US don't realise that secular pure freedom means the LGBTQ+ and abortion agendas both end up in line with US's liberty-first ethos.

It is left-wing to be pro-life. You are backing poor babies being born at the inconvenience of the already-born. Go figure.

#20 •••
@Misterio

Also a couple instances in Japan.


Sengoku period,

"while not truly armour nor armament, a very common item wielded by the mobs of Ikkō-ikki priest warriors was a banner with a Buddhist slogan written upon it. Some of the more common slogans included the nenbutsu chant "Hail to Buddha Amida!" (Namu Amida Butsu; 南無阿弥陀仏) and "He who advances is sure of salvation, but he who retreats will go to hell".[4]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikkō-ikki


WW2, Zen at War by Brian Daizen Victoria

"The book meticulously documents Zen Buddhism's support of Japanese militarism from the time of the Meiji Restoration through the World War II and the post-War period. It describes the influence of state policy on Buddhism in Japan, and particularly the influence of Zen on the military of the Empire of Japan. A famous quote is from Harada Daiun Sogaku: "[If ordered to] march: tramp, tramp, or shoot: bang, bang. This is the manifestation of the highest Wisdom [of Enlightenment]. The unity of Zen and war of which I speak extends to the farthest reaches of the holy war [now under way]."[1][2]


The book also explores the actions of Japanese Buddhists who opposed the growth of militarism."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_at_War


But I'm not familiar with Buddhism or what it's texts say. Or which texts you'd consider core texts.

Or with the statistics of religion and war in history, or the variables during it's history.


. . . Course you 'could try arguing the violent incarnations are not 'real Buddhism.

And glancing at Reddit, some people think the WW2 book is heavily biased.

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#21 •••
@Misterio
is the most peaceful philosophy


Jesus said "blessed are the peacemakers" and "turn the other cheek", but you don't seem to judge Christianity by the ideals of its founder alone. Rather, what you're interested in is how a religion pans out in practice. So then, let's take a cursory glance at Buddhism history.


Premodern Japan had prominent Buddhist monasteries such as Enryaku-ji and Mii-dera, which were independent fiefdoms that collected rents from peasants and were backed by sohei (a caste of warrior monks). These sometimes waged wars of aggression against secular fiefdoms or against each other on account of theological differences.

The practical dynamics at play largely resembled those in Medieval Europe or the fire temples of Zoroastrian Iran, where pious nobles made donations of land to monastic institutions, which over the course of centuries often managed to accrue vast landholdings. Their power was only curbed by the warlord Oda Nobunaga at the end of a long struggle to unify the politically fractured country.

And if that was true in Japan, then we can assume it was probably true in other East Asian/Southeast Asian countries as well.


Indeed, we can assume Southeast Asia (where Theravada as opposed to Mahayana Buddhism dominated) was probably even less egalitarian-minded. The Theravadin suppose that only a small elect, not the laity, are sufficiently self-controlled to achieve salvation. All laypeople can really do is hope that they'll be reincarnated one day as somebody who becomes a monk, and tread water (re: not accrue more bad karma and end up in a non-human body) in the meantime by earning merit.

And how does a Theravada layperson earn merit? By supporting the livelihood of the elect. It is a feature, not a bug, of Theravada societies that the many live to serve the privileged few. This takes the form of public, socially sanctioned rituals.


Finally, let's examine Tibetan (or Vajrayana) Buddhism, the most well-known Buddhist school in the West. Prior to its annexation by communist China, Tibet was a stratified society with rigid social boundaries where the large majority of the population consisted of serfs whose land was owned by a small, often clerical elite. Live dismemberment was practiced as a form of (ostensibly non-lethal) punishment until 1913.


spiritual ideology


Also a rather subjective claim. If you measured spirituality by such metrics as the intensity of one's devotion and willingness to discard worldly vices, the intensity/frequency of religious experience, general personality traits (e.g. sense of tranquility) outside of moments of religious experience, etc., you will find both spiritual and not so spiritual people in all religious traditions. For example, I hardly think you would claim some hard drinking Chinese guy with a Buddha figurine on his shelf is more spiritual than, say, a Benedictine monk.

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#22 •••
@Misterio

Buddhists are about as spiritually enlightened as a Banana in a pudding factory.


Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


But look good in Orange.


And are good for tourism.



Atheism would be the best way forwards.


Though I'm guessing that A I will be the way forwards, and will reject all nonsense.

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#23 •••
@Leaning

I speak of results. Japan is one of the most advanced countries in the world, I'd say thanks to Buddhism.

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#24 •••
@bubbatheclown
Also a rather subjective claim. If you measured spirituality by such metrics as the intensity of one's devotion and willingness to discard worldly vices, the intensity/frequency of religious experience, general personality traits (e.g. sense of tranquility) outside of moments of religious experience, etc., you will find both spiritual and not so spiritual people in all religious traditions. For example, I hardly think you would claim some hard drinking Chinese guy with a Buddha figurine on his shelf is more spiritual than, say, a Benedictine monk.


Spirituality is nothing subjective. The problem is that you're looking at it from a Christian perspective.


Buddhism is very clear about it. Spirituality is about training one's mind and state of being in order to reach peace among people. Isn't it in the end the goal of our species or any other that gained a bit of consciousness?


This is the main argument of this thread. Buddhism has everything we need to progress because in order to progress we need at least not to kill one another. In contrast, other relgions put "Gods" to worship and fight for. The religions that have "Gods" divide us. The term "God" as we know it hasn't been useful at all. The concept of "God" not only divided the world but also put countries against one another.


So, don't take spiritually as something supernatural because it's not. Spiritually is about the mind. You can call it mindfullness too.

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#25 •••
@Misterio
I speak of results. Japan is one of the most advanced countries in the world, I'd say thanks to Buddhism.


Well, Shinto too!!!

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#26 •••
The problem is that you're looking at it from a Christian perspective.


No, I'm explicitly not looking at it from a Christian perspective. If I did, I'd call all non-Christian spirituality either fake or demonic. I gave a secular description of spirituality that maps onto Buddhism and Christianity alike.


Buddhism is very clear about it. Spirituality is about training one's mind and state of being in order to reach peace among people.


"We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."


-2 Corinthians 10:5


"Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice. Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand; do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is an excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me -- practice these things, and the peace of God will be with you."


-Philippians 4:4-9


"For this is the message you heard from the beginning: we should love one another...Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him. This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters."


-1 John 3:11-16


This is the main argument of this thread. Buddhism has everything we need to progress because in order to progress we need at least not to kill one another. 


Given that the Christian West voluntarily stopped killing people in the name of religion around the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries without these values being imposed on them by an outside force, why do you think this is unique to Buddhism? And do you think violent Buddhist fundamentalists aren't a thing?

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#27 •••

Buddhism promotes ideals like compassion, non-violence (ahimsa) and reducing suffering, which are central to achieving world peace. Many Buddhists believe that true peace starts with inner peace, achieved through practices like meditation and ethical conduct, but historical instances of violence have also occurred in the name of Buddhist ideals. 

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#28 •••
@Misterio

A "religion," or a "philosophy," which Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Wiccan, etc, are, are separate entities than the people who espouse them, and there are good and poor examples of people in all of them. The effectiveness of any of them to achieve peace of mind and body is laudable, however, the ability of people to likewise destroy the principles they, themselves, claim to espouse is likewise evident, and unfortunate. But to judge all members of any of these organizations, and the organizations, themselves, by the thoughts and actions of any number of their memebership, or their detractors, is disingenuous in the extreme. It is notable that every one of the examples I gave, and about 20 others of which I am personally aware, espouse in various words, the essentials of the so-called golden rule: "Do unto others..." which tells me me that, at the core, it a universal truth. Any complaints about that?

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#29 •••
@bubbatheclown
Given that the Christian West voluntarily stopped killing people in the name of religion around the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries without these values being imposed on them by an outside force, why do you think this is unique to Buddhism? And do you think violent Buddhist fundamentalists aren't a thing?


Christianity has stopped being an issue for the West since the age of Enlightment which was a prolific time for knowledge, reason and creativity. It didn't have anything to do with the will, people just awoke from ignorance and stopped believing in bullshit. So, no surprise to see more people considered as non-religious.


https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/least-religious-countries


Buddhism, on the other hand, didn't change over time. The fact that some people used Buddhism to justify violence doesn't make it less useful. And if you dive a bit deeper you'll realize that more and more Westerners are participating in some movements that resemble Buddhism, like the new age movement.


In general, you'll see a decline of Christianity over different kind of movements that call themselves "spritual" and, as I said, are all about mental peace. It's an unstoppable trend that started since the age of Illustration. People find in these movements not only reasonable arguments to progress but also a reason of being, something that religions can't fulfill anymore.

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#30 •••
@fauxlaw

I'll tell you the same I told to @Leaning, I speak of results.


To me it's quite clear that Christianity is enough ambiguos and subjective to create zealots that fight against any cause you want. An explanation for it is the concept of "God". If you have a "God", you can convince people to go against anything that is considered an enemy to that "God". It's not that evident in the West because there are not many Christians as in the past, but you can see it in the Islam. I don't know any serious case in which you can say that Buddhism was an evil force of destruction and backwardness as it was in Christianity and still in Islam.


So, the problem was and still is the "God" these religious people believe in. We cancel this "God" out and humanity will be fine. Well, at least in terms of religions, because in politics we have a lot to solve.

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