Why Do Christians Believe God Became Flesh?

Started by Stephen

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#31 •••
@Debby

Christian theology teaches Jesus had to be fully human and fully divine (God), the "God-man,


Bollocks! Nowhere does anyone including Jesus call himself or ever refers to himself as a "god-man" regardless of what "Christian theology teaches".

Off you go now.

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#32 •••
@Stephen

the Bible teaches that Jesus is the "God-man," meaning He is both fully divine (God) and fully human, a concept known as the Incarnation, where God became flesh without losing His deity, as seen in verses like John 1:14 ("The Word became flesh") and passages describing Him as both God (Titus 2:13) and man (Romans 1:3-4). Early Christian councils, like the Council of Chalcedon (AD 451), affirmed this, stating He is one person with two distinct natures, God and man, inseparable but not mixed. 

Evidence for Jesus as God:

  1. Claimed Divinity: Jesus accepted worship and claimed equality with God (John 10:30, John 20:28).
  2. Divine Titles: Called "God with us" (Emmanuel) in Matthew 1:23, "Mighty God" in Isaiah 9:6.
  3. Divine Attributes: Described as eternal (John 17:5) and the Creator (John 1:3). 

Evidence for Jesus as Man:

  1. Born Human: Born of Mary, experienced human life, emotions (sorrow, joy), and physical needs (hunger, tiredness).
  2. "Son of Man": Referred to as the "Son of Man" many times, affirming His humanity (Luke 19:41).
  3. Human Limitations: Had a human mind and will, learning and experiencing human limitations (e.g., not knowing the day of His return). 

The Mystery of the God-Man:

  1. The concept is that God added humanity to His divine nature, not that His divine nature became human or mixed, but remained distinct yet united in one person.
  2. He is like us in every way (humanity) but without sin (Hebrews 4:15). 


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#33 •••

Nothing in Christianity is Torah based and most elements can be found in Greco-Roman polytheism. The most notable is higher beings mating with humans is strictly forbidden but it was ok to get Mary pregnant to give birth to the son of God? Demigods are a staple of Roman mythology. That alone shows it's not a Judeo based faith and therefore a complete lie.

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#34 •••
@Polytheistwitch
Nothing in Christianity is Torah based


Nonsense, that is an over-generalization based on emotion rather than informed consideration. Christianity is deeply rooted in Torah, it provides the foundational narratives and laws (like the Ten Commandments) that Christians accept as scripture, the Torah’s core moral principles remain. Christianity’s point of departure is the belief that Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law, fulfilling its prophecies and upholding its moral commands, but it is uninformed nonsense to claim that “Nothing in Christianity is Torah based”.


 and most elements can be found in Greco-Roman polytheism.


So what, Christianity is Hellenized Judaism, why is that a problem for you. 


As societies evolve, religions evolve, all Religions have developed over time though borrowings and exchange, mutual help, and cross-fertilizations, that results in strong hybrids adapted to the society’s needs in a way that spiritually enriches the culture. 


The most notable is higher beings mating with humans is strictly forbidden but it was ok to get Mary pregnant to give birth to the son of God? Demigods are a staple of Roman mythology.


Christianity arose at a time when both Roman and Jewish culture had become overly patriarchal, characterized by denial and repression of the soul’s feminine aspect. For many people, balance was restored by a Christianity that gives us a Savior that was born of a divine union between God the Father and a Mother of the earth. Why is that a problem for you?


That alone shows it's not a Judeo based faith


No, it doesn’t, it shows it’s a faith that originated in Judaism and adapted to a changing cultural context until it became a separate religion.


and therefore a complete lie.


It’s your stagnant and literalistic view of religion that is a complete lie. It’s uninformed, pointless, and most importantly, it eliminates any possibility of spiritual awareness while arresting religion’s power to effect creative transformation in our lives.


It’s always been about religion alive.


If true intelligence involves the ability to view and understanding widely different phenomena from multiple different perspectives, an aptitude for grasping a wide range of truths, relationships, and meanings, and the capacity for abstract and symbolic thought, then it follows logically that the contention that one can reduce spiritual reality to a stagnant and surface level literalism, to know it in only one of its forms, is an unintelligent claim.

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#35 •••

The answer is really basic. Immortality means there is no lasting mortality, therefore, in layman terms, immortality means no death. No death, no reason to resurrect. No resurrection, no eternal life, because immortality with God is not a possible outcome without first being born into mortality. The necessity of a Savior was to redeem man from death, which would, without redemption, be everlasting death once mortal life ended. Our entire reason for existence at all is to ultimately live with God in his realm, which is immortal. A Savior was necessary to defeat death, and that sacrifice had to be by one who was totally sinless over his entire lifetime to fully meet the demands of eternal justice. We were never, and will never be capable of performing that ultimate sacrifice, even for ourselves.

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#36 •••
@Polytheistwitch
Nothing in Christianity is Torah based


Nothing but the entire foundation of Christian dogma. The Torah, however, on its own, is incapable of performing the redemption of man from death. It was never meant to perform that act. The Torah is a preparatory step on the path to achieve redemption from pain and suffering and death; to be redeemed from these limiting principles that would otherwise end our existence at death. That redemption comes only be acceptance that Jesus is the Christ, the Redeemer, the Messiah. Those tied to the Torah were always looking for the Messiah, but came to look upon him as a savior from Babylonian, and, ultimately, Roman rule over them. They miss the point t that the Messiah has come, and has performed so much more than redemption from merely human politically oppressive empires.

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#37 •••
@fauxlaw

All religions are naive creation and existence ideas born of ignorance...Which became the basis of socio-economic and political power.


The fact that we still believe such non-sense, is a testament to the clever stupid organic data transfer and processing systems that we are.


Judaism, Christianity, Islam...All based upon the same ideas, but with differing ritualism in an attempt to make a religious club appear more attractive and special than it's rivals.


And Judaic ideas were based upon previous regional ideas, largely centred around the concept of humanesque space magicians.


Nonetheless, strip away the human inspired ritual, drama and fantasy and a Universal Super-Intelligence is a reasonable hypothesis.


Though people have come to love ritual drama and fantasy, as well as inter-club argy-bargy.



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#38 •••
@SergeantLynch

As if there is not ritual in such mundane human activity as conducting business transactions and presentation of works of art, let alone development of educational institutions and all its cloth-and-daggers.


Or even the military, Sergeant. Talk about ritual! Hooyah!

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#39 •••
@fauxlaw

Well, I was specifically talking about religions and the development and machinations thereof.


But for sure, you're correct...Society in general is likely to function and perform in a similar fashion.


I'm guessing that Og and Ug were always trying to outdo each others caves and fashions.

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#40 •••
@SergeantLynch

Certainly, Og and Ug were all about that, but then along came Ziggy, to decide if Og was robbing Ug, or vice versa, and it really was a larger question because we don't really know what Ziggy's motivation was in trying to play cop. Was he merely thinking he could rob from both, and set himself up as administrator? That's politics, and why politics alone should not rule the world.

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#41 •••
@fauxlaw

My wife was a David Bowie fan, so we had a cat named Ziggy...My wife is a cat woman...Whereas I am not so keen on cats as pets.


I am a dog man, and was more of and Ozzy person back in the day...Though I have never named a dog Ozzy.



I would say that political ambition stems from natural human inequality. There will always be Og's, Ug's and Ziggy's

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#42 •••
@SergeantLynch, @Stephen

.....Why Do Christians Believe God Became Flesh?......


Maybe it is because humans are flesh eating Zombies, who will believe any nonsense irrespective of how illogical, lacking common sense critical thinking, as long as their given their daily ration of brains?


(^ v ^) Hi, im a fleshing eating Zombie, what do you want me to believe today?


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#43 •••
@ebuc

Yep, naive humans decided that the GOD of their thoughts and nightmares, was a special human...And illogical, lacking common sense critical thinking has force fed such illogical, lacking common sense critical thinking into the brains of zombie kids ever since.

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#44 •••

He was trans-species

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#45 •••
@Stephen
"During his lifetime Jesus himself didn't call himself god and didn't consider himself to be god. And none of his disciples had even an inkling at all that he was god". [citation from a YouTube video]


I do not take an ad hoc YouTube video to be authoritative to the extent of knowing what a god is in order to justify claiming that Jesus was not a god. That said, in answer to the YouTube claim, John 18: 36, Jesus speaking to Pontius Pilate, "My kingdom is not of this world." This implies that Jesus is not merely a mortal human, though born of a mortal, human woman. John 19: 11 [also Jesus to Pilate] Thou couldest have no power at all against me except it were given thee from above." This implies that Jesus has access to power greater than that of Pilate, a Roman governor, that is in excess of mortal human possibility; that of a god. Matthew 16: 16 [Peter responding to Christ, who asked who the apostles say Jesus is] "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." That declaration is learned by Peter from God directly by revelation, as Jesus declares in response, thus confirming by Christ's own word who and what he is. Therefore, the YouTube video creators simply cannot read and interpret the English language. Jesus Christ is a god.

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#46 •••

transdeified

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#47 •••

To fulfill the Bible prophesies about the sacrifice of Jesus, Jesus has to come in the flesh so he could be sacrificed and his blood spilled during the sacrifice. Or it would not be accepted as sacrifice.

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#48 •••
Stephen wrote: "During his lifetime Jesus himself didn't call himself god and didn't consider himself to be god. And none of his disciples had even an inkling at all that he was god". [citation from a YouTube video]

fauxlaw wrote:I do not take an ad hoc YouTube video to be authoritative to the extent of knowing what a god is in order to justify claiming that Jesus was not a god. . Therefore, the YouTube video creators simply cannot read and interpret the English language. Jesus Christ is a god.

So you are telling us that you dismiss the opinions and views of(the speaker in the YouTube video) the distinguished

Professor Bart Ehrman, author of some 30 books on religion and who is more than qualified to speak on such matters ?



Therefore, the YouTube video creators simply cannot read and interpret the English language. Jesus Christ is a god.


Neither can you. But the person in the YT video Professor and scholar Bart Ehrman, can, and very will too.

Interesting bio>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman and a lot more interesting than those children's books you claim to author.


As is the video in question>>>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C96FPHRTuQU




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#49 •••
@Stephen

Bart Ehrman accepts the validity of Jesus as a historical fact. But lacks the faith to accept Jesus as God. But we know the disciples who were with a Jesus all pronounced Jesus as God and continued his mission even after his death. They went to their deaths believing Jesus was God. That is how Christianity replaces Judaism.

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#50 •••
@Debby
Bart Ehrman accepts the validity of Jesus as a historical fact. 

I have no problem believing a man named Jesus existed when he did. What's your point.

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#51 •••
@fauxlaw
Stephen wrote: "During his lifetime Jesus himself didn't call himself god and didn't consider himself to be god. And none of his disciples had even an inkling at all that he was god". [citation from a YouTube video]

fauxlaw wrote:I do not take an ad hoc YouTube video to be authoritative to the extent of knowing what a god is in order to justify claiming that Jesus was not a god. . Therefore, the YouTube video creators simply cannot read and interpret the English language. Jesus Christ is a god.

So you are telling us that you dismiss the opinions and views of(the speaker in the YouTube video) the distinguished

Professor Bart Ehrman, author of some 30 books on religion and who is more than qualified to speak on such matters ?



Therefore, the YouTube video creators simply cannot read and interpret the English language. Jesus Christ is a god.


Neither can you. But the person in the YT video Professor and scholar Bart Ehrman, can, and very will too.

Interesting bio>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman and a lot more interesting than those children's books you claim to author.


As is the video in question>>>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C96FPHRTuQU


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#52 •••
@Stephen

The point is Bart Ehrman accepted Jesus as a historical fact. But like many others lacked the faith to believe Jesus was God. So he leads people to Jesus as a scholar but stops shot of encouraging them to accept salvation as well. But to many people that is already a service to Christianity validating Jesus.

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#53 •••
@Stephen
So you are telling us that you dismiss the opinions and views of(the speaker in the YouTube video) 


In a word, yes. As for "more than qualified to speak on such matters," I'd say having lost his faith, his "more than qualified" got up and left. I have not abandoned my faith, and, as for "qualifications," what, exactly does that mean to you, and by what authority do you claim I lack it? You have no idea of my academic and religious background, do you? Whatever you may think your know, there's more.

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#54 •••
@fauxlaw

Remember he is retired like you and works at a slower pace. Besides he doesn’t believe in miracles. So he is resigned to the inevitable return to dust.

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#55 •••
@Stephen

Why we believe:

The idea of God "incarnating" as a man is to pay the price of sin for mankind. Hebrews chapter 9 states that the blood of bulls and goats were not able to remove sin, but the death of a sinless man created an opening for the guilty to identify with the death of Jesus. SO, in order for us, mankind, to remove the sin from our lives we needed a perfect sacrifice to identify with.


Why it "HAD TO HAPPEN" is all in God's plan. I suppose God could have made a galactic proclamation of "all sins of people wanting pardon will be pardoned by the standing on their heads for 5 minutes!" I can only assume that this "becoming flesh" was to make it to where humankind can understand and resonate with His actions.

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#56 •••
@DavidAZ

John 14:6.jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

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#57 •••

Convert or die. The God of Abraham forbids human sacrifice and he punishes beings that have sex with humans then, he impregnates a young girl so her child can be sacrificed. There's absolutely nothing about the story of Christ that refer back to the Old Testament.

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#58 •••
@Polytheistwitch

Even Judaism does not put restrictions on God. It was in the Old Testament that Isaiah 7:14 prophesied Mary would be pregnant with God’s child Immanuel.

jesus was the fulfillment of that prophesy in the New Testament.

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#59 •••
@DavidAZ
Why we believe:
The idea of God "incarnating" as a man is to pay the price of sin for mankind. Hebrews chapter 9 states that the blood of bulls and goats were not able to remove sin, but the death of a sinless man created an opening for the guilty to identify with the death of Jesus. SO, in order for us, mankind, to remove the sin from our lives we needed a perfect sacrifice to identify with.

This doesn't explain why it had to be a blood sacrifice and you haven't explained why. Is all you have done here is made statement about what you believe.


Why it "HAD TO HAPPEN" is all in God's plan.


there is nothing in the bible that states why a man had to be beaten half to death, nailed to a wooden cross and speared between the ribs. resulting in a mans agonising, torturous cruel death.




I suppose God could have made a galactic proclamation of "all sins of people wanting pardon will be pardoned by the standing on their heads for 5 minutes!" I can only assume that this "becoming flesh" was to make it to where humankind can understand and resonate with His actions.


Indeed and standing on ones head for 5 minutes would have been a lot less cruel.


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#60 •••
@Stephen

The Primary Bible verse stating that sacrifices required the spilling of blood for forgiveness in Hebrew 9:22 which says:” Indeed under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins”. This principal is rooted in the Old Testament , specifically Leviticus 17:11which explains that the life of the creature is in the blood and it is given to make atonement.

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