Sin - the path to superiority (And why Karl Marx's theory of work hours is only true in case of pure greed or in case of robot maids)

Started by SatanLucy

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#1 •••

Now, I know what a lot of you will say, sin is bad, bla bla bla...


However, sin seems to be a literal path to superiority.


Sin plays a very interesting role in the world, and this becomes obvious once you consider a person who avoids all sin.


Person who avoids all sin will be:

  1. Poor
  2. Without power


Now, this is where it gets funny. If you are poor, you cant help other poor people. If you are without power, you cannot help other people or protect them.


So a person who avoids all sin would actually end up being less capable to do good.


Because in order to get rich, some sin must happen, either an unfair opportunity which other people didnt have in life, or maybe being ready to exploit weakness of market, or abusing government power.


And of course, most if not all wealthy people live in pure sin of wealth, where they buy themselves expensive things other people cant afford.


But this is where twist happens.


A rich person can donate millions to charity.


But poor person without sin cannot ever do this.


So a person who becomes wealthy through sin at the same time becomes more capable to do much more good than some person who didnt commit any sin.


Now, think about what this means. Committing sin directly enables a person to do more good.


And this is true for a lot of sins. Sin of getting more power enables person to later use that power for good.


Growing wealth, investing, creating jobs... even if it includes exploitation of workers in a literal sense that workers must do extra work to produce things for the rich, at the same time increases wealth of workers who cannot really organize themselves well without rich people, as we have seen in nearly all communist shitholes.


So Karl Marx's theory of labor time is true sometimes, the more wealth rich people have as percentage of total wealth in society, the more hours workers must work to produce that wealth for rich compared to total work hours. But this isnt true in society where rich people are charitable. If rich people are charitable, wealth gets re-distributed naturally, and the work hours meant to produce for rich become work hours which produce for the ordinary worker.


So a rich person who commits obvious sin, at the same time produces good from that sin which actually benefits poor and incapable people way more than some sin-less poor priest in church ever would.


Now, being wealthy becomes a problem only when person doesnt use wealth to help others.


Entire Karl Marx's work was based on one very specific theory, which is percentage of wealth owned by rich. And it is true, such wealth needs to be produced by workers. It is workers who work to produce expensive things for rich, and as result, lower production of things for workers.


So if rich owns 90% of wealth and is greedy, worker spends 90% of his work hours producing for the rich person, and such society naturally collapses as rich person claims more and more percentage of wealth, which in the end takes too much from worker.


But this theory isnt true at all in case where rich person is charitable.


theory is only logically true in scenario where we assume rich person is made out of pure greed, and takes larger and larger percentage of wealth in society until even growth of production cannot make up for worker's loss of percentage.


But if we assume rich person who is charitable, then not only does the worker get richer and has better life, but the rich person actually benefits him more than any communist utopia ever could.


So even if we assume being richer than others based on unfair advantages in life is a sin, that very same sin then enables person to do more good than sinless life ever could.


So the only way to create society where wealth gets re-distributed is society where rich people exist to re-distribute the wealth.


Society without rich people would always be society of very poor people. Because when you eliminate all ways person can claim superiority over others, you end up with society where no person can use superiority to help others.


And this scenario is always logically true. If you dont let the rich people appear, there is no wealth to re-distribute.


Society made out of only poor people is a poor society by tautology. You actually need the sin of wealth in order to do good to help others using that wealth.


the only way to make two unequal things equal is to redistribute, and the only way to redistribute is if two unequal things exist in the first place.


System where all people are naturally equal in wealth is simply not logically possible due to skill difference, except in distant future where robot maids do all the work and people dont need skill to produce wealth.


But skill in producing wealth cannot be removed now without destroying wealth as well.


So skill in producing wealth, even if sin, enables re-distribution to less skilled ones.

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#2 •••

Now, this isnt to say all sin leads to superiority.


there are indeed sins which put you in inferior position.


But sins which give superiority are obvious paths to superiority.


take example of consequentialism, where evil is done to achieve greater good.


Likewise, some sins achieve wealth and power, which are actually crucial to do good because you cant really do much good as powerless and poor.

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#3 •••
@SatanLucy

While sin itself is inherently against divine nature, 

many faiths believe God can use human sin and suffering for ultimate good, turning negative situations into opportunities for growth, redemption, or teaching, as seen in stories like Joseph in the Bible, where God transforms evil intended against someone into a blessing. This doesn't justify sin but speaks to God's power to bring good from any circumstance, leading to deeper faith or helping others. 

Religious perspectives on sin and good:

  1. Christianity: God uses sin for His glory and to conform believers to Jesus' image, teaching lessons and creating empathy, though sin itself isn't good.
  2. Islam: Good deeds can offset bad deeds, but sincere repentance is key; God forgives sins and rewards good actions.
  3. Judaism: The concept of yetzer hara (evil inclination) is seen as part of creation, potentially leading to greater good when overcome, a more positive view than some Christian ideas.
  4. Hinduism: Sin (karma) creates consequences, but actions (dharma) and atonement are paths to balance, focusing on natural law rather than just divine judgment. 

How good can emerge from sin:

  1. Personal Growth: Sin's consequences can teach humility, leading to reliance on God and spiritual transformation (e.g., a life of addiction leading to recovery and helping others).
  2. Redemption & Empathy: Experiencing failure can foster compassion for others, turning personal brokenness into a source of support.
  3. Divine Purpose: Stories like Joseph's brothers selling him (Genesis 37-50) show evil acts being woven into God's plan for salvation and provision. 

In essence, while sin brings destruction, divine faith traditions hold that God's power can redeem even evil acts, making them catalysts for greater good, healing, and spiritual depth. 


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#4 •••

Who says it is a sin to acquire wealth? There are many ways to acquire wealth that are sinless. Money, itself, is not the root of anything at all if its acquisition and use are not, themselves, sinfully done. The advice Jesus gave to the young man to give all that he had was not advice to all, because everyone who is wealthy is not also miserly, as the young man was. Do not read words that are not there, and pray about those that are that we may interpret correctly.


It is not sinful to afford things that others are not able to buy. The lack is not the wealthy one's fault, necessarily, unless the rich man has stolen from the poor. Yes, that does happen, but not all wealthy people are thieves and misers, and it is not good to assume they are.


re-distribution of wealth in order to make all of relative worth is not good, either, because that allows sloth and entitlement to generate. Let all be ambitious enough to be of a wealth with which they are properly prepared to earn, and earn it.


Let all be charitable to the degree that the government need not be involved in being the source of any charity. The injunction Jesus gave to give to the poor was not an invitation to Caesar to perform, but to the people.

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#5 •••
@fauxlaw


Yes, it is not a sin to acquire $400 million from your father. It is a sin to have poor parents.

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#6 •••
@FLRW

No, no one inherits sin from anyone else, parents or otherwise, unless one denies the effect of the Savior's atonement, which even paid for the transgression of Adam and Eve. To accept that we bear their transgression is to totally deny Christ. Nope; I don't go there. We are each responsible only for our own transgressions, and no one else's. There is no "original sin," and no one can show me scriptural evidence otherwise.

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#7 •••

You are slowly realising it...


Everyone is a sinner but not all sins are equal.


Christianity is the true religion.

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The US is a definitively secular nation, founded on complete separation of the State and religion. The Left Wing of US realise this but don't realise that pure freedom requires as low tax and free access to guns as possible. The Right Wing of US don't realise that secular pure freedom means the LGBTQ+ and abortion agendas both end up in line with US's liberty-first ethos.

It is left-wing to be pro-life. You are backing poor babies being born at the inconvenience of the already-born. Go figure.

#8 •••
@fauxlaw

Jesus says it is a sin to love money at all.

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The US is a definitively secular nation, founded on complete separation of the State and religion. The Left Wing of US realise this but don't realise that pure freedom requires as low tax and free access to guns as possible. The Right Wing of US don't realise that secular pure freedom means the LGBTQ+ and abortion agendas both end up in line with US's liberty-first ethos.

It is left-wing to be pro-life. You are backing poor babies being born at the inconvenience of the already-born. Go figure.

#9 •••

If you mean by that claim if it is derived from Luke 12: 15, that most English translations do not specify "money," but covetousness; the envy of any possession, not just money. It is possession, with unhealthy desire for it, that is sinful, and not its mere acquisition and safe-keeping. If one is faithful in their use of possessions, making them a blessing to others, as well, what, pray tell, is wrong in that?

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We tell God what to do and then blame Him for our errors.

- Dr. Pet Dragon of Sorbonne University

#10 •••
Everyone is a sinner but not all sins are equal.


Yeah. Now, I believe divine light is in everyone. But not all sins can result in good. Some sins are just bad and serve no purpose other than reminding us of need for good.

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#11 •••
@GreatfulGoy, @SatanLucy

Rather like MANGOD and the benefit of fitted kitchens, sin is a thinking persons concept.


Though biblically, sin is primarily all about thinking persons inability to come to terms with sexual processes and proclivities.

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#12 •••
Christianity is the true religion.


I am not going to say which religion is true, but we can exclude the obviously false ones, such as islam. No offense to any muslim, but there is no way islam is superior to sikhism. Sikhism teaches that divine light is in all, islam teaches that divine light is only in muslims, which based on their history couldnt be further from truth. It doesnt matter what standard you use, muslims as group arent superior in any way to other groups.


Islam presents God as some person who gets visibly upset because someone doesnt believe in him and then tortures them. Sikhism has true teaching that God indeed isnt that low in intelligence as islam presents it, but is pure being of love and lacking any hate or upset.

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#13 •••
@SatanLucy


Globally, Sikhs number around 25-30 million, making Sikhism the world's fifth-largest religion, while Muslims are vastly more numerous, with over 1.8 billion followers, representing the world's second-largest religion; thus, the Muslim population is hundreds of times larger than the Sikh population, with most Sikhs residing in India, especially Punjab, and Muslims spread across the globe, particularly in Asia and Africa, highlighting a massive demographic difference. 

Sikh Population:

  1. Total: Approximately 25 to 30 million worldwide.
  2. Concentration: About 90% live in India, primarily in the state of Punjab, which is the only Sikh-majority state.
  3. Other Significant Communities: Large Sikh populations also exist in Canada, the UK, the USA, and Australia due to migration. 

Muslim Population:

  1. Total: Over 1.8 billion (as of recent estimates, making them the second-largest religion after Christianity).
  2. Concentration: Majority in Asia (Middle East, South Asia, Southeast Asia) and significant populations in Africa and Europe. 

The Comparison:

  1. Scale: The Muslim population is exponentially larger, with billions of followers compared to millions for Sikhs.
  2. Global Reach: Both have global diasporas, but Islam is a far more widespread faith, with a much greater proportion of the world's population adhering to it.
  3. Growth: Islam is growing rapidly due to high birth rates, whereas Sikh population growth is slower and stabilizing, notes Quora users


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