The origin of chistian- ity

Started by Mal

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#61 •••
@SergeantLynch

The Muslims would have grabbed that story first if it was so.

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#62 •••
@Debby

Muslims weren't invented until the 7th century CE.


Scepticism of the factually inaccurate Christian tale would have been rife amongst realist scholars such as myself, long before the 7th century.

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#63 •••
@SergeantLynch

That was why Islam gained popularity as an alternate to Christianity.

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#64 •••
@Debby

More sort of conditioned and enforced popularity. Just as it is today to varying degrees.


Brainwashing infants, isn't really synonymous with "gaining popularity".

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#65 •••
@SergeantLynch


Islam's popularity stems from its simple, clear theology (oneness of God, prophecy, afterlife), strong community focus, rich history during the Islamic Golden Age, and, significantly, high birth rates and young demographics, making it the world's fastest-growing major religion, with growth driven mostly by natural increase rather than conversion, though some people convert due to spiritual fulfillment or pragmatic reasons.  


Key Reasons for Growth & Popularity:

  1. Demographics: 
  2. Muslims have higher fertility rates and a younger median age than other religious groups, meaning a larger proportion are starting families, fueling rapid population growth. 

  3. Spiritual Appeal: 
  4. Belief in one God (Allah), simple core tenets (like the oneness of God, Muhammad as His final prophet, and accountability in the afterlife), and a direct relationship with the divine attract followers. 

  5. Community & Identity: 
  6. Islam offers a strong sense of belonging and shared identity (the Ummah), reinforced by communal practices, rituals, and a common code of life. 

  7. Historical & Cultural Influence: 
  8. The Islamic Golden Age saw massive contributions to science, math, and culture, creating a powerful, historically significant civilization that attracted people through trade and cultural diffusion. 

  9. Conversion: 
  10. While demographics are key, conversions occur for reasons including spiritual transformation, finding clarity, or social integration into Muslim communities. 

  11. Simplicity: 
  12. The faith is seen by many as free from mythology and superstition, offering a straightforward path to God, emphasizing submission (Islam) to His will. 

In essence, high birth rates and a young population are the primary drivers of its numerical growth, while its theological clarity, community, and historical richness contribute to its deep appeal and continued expansion. 


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#66 •••
@Debby

As I tried to point out previously...You are confusing popularity and enforced conditioning.

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#67 •••
@SergeantLynch

The many reasons for Islam’s growing popularity are listed.

Islam's popularity stems from its simple, clear theology (oneness of God, prophecy, afterlife), strong community focus, rich history during the Islamic Golden Age, and, significantly, high birth rates and young demographics, making it the world's fastest-growing major religion, with growth driven mostly by natural increase rather than conversion, though some people convert due to spiritual fulfillment or pragmatic reasons.  


Key Reasons for Growth & Popularity:

  1. Demographics: 
  2. Muslims have higher fertility rates and a younger median age than other religious groups, meaning a larger proportion are starting families, fueling rapid population growth. 

  3. Spiritual Appeal: 
  4. Belief in one God (Allah), simple core tenets (like the oneness of God, Muhammad as His final prophet, and accountability in the afterlife), and a direct relationship with the divine attract followers. 

  5. Community & Identity: 
  6. Islam offers a strong sense of belonging and shared identity (the Ummah), reinforced by communal practices, rituals, and a common code of life. 

  7. Historical & Cultural Influence: 
  8. The Islamic Golden Age saw massive contributions to science, math, and culture, creating a powerful, historically significant civilization that attracted people through trade and cultural diffusion. 

  9. Conversion: 
  10. While demographics are key, conversions occur for reasons including spiritual transformation, finding clarity, or social integration into Muslim communities. 

  11. Simplicity: 
  12. The faith is seen by many as free from mythology and superstition, offering a straightforward path to God, emphasizing submission (Islam) to His will. 

In essence, high birth rates and a young population are the primary drivers of its numerical growth, while its theological clarity, community, and historical richness contribute to its deep appeal and continued expansion. 


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#68 •••
@Debby

#67


Too much repetition.


My point is not being addressed, as one would expect from a reasonably intelligent human being.

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#69 •••
@SergeantLynch

Answer to your second part of your question.”You are confusing popularity and enforced conditioning.”


The statement "Muslims do not enforce conditioning" aligns with the core Islamic principle of 

freedom of belief, as explicitly stated in the Qur'an. The faith emphasizes that belief must come from sincere conviction and free will, not coercion or force. 

Key points supporting this principle include:

  1. "No Compulsion in Religion": The most frequently cited verse on this matter is Qur'an 2:256, which states, "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error". This verse is widely interpreted by scholars as a foundational rule against forcing anyone to embrace Islam or any specific religious practice against their will.
  2. Role of Muslims as Reminders: The Qur'an instructs Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and, by extension, all Muslims to convey the message using "wisdom and goodly exhortation," not to act as controllers or enforcers over people's beliefs (Qur'an 88:21–22, 16:125). The responsibility is to clearly present the truth, after which the individual is free to choose whether to believe or disbelieve (Qur'an 18:29).
  3. Belief of the Heart: True faith is considered a matter of the heart and personal conviction, which cannot be achieved through external pressure or force. A coerced profession of faith holds no value in Islam.
  4. Divine Will: Islamic texts also mention that if God had willed, everyone on Earth would have believed, implying that the diversity of beliefs is part of the divine plan, and it is not a human's place to compel others (Qur'an 10:99). 

While some individuals or groups in certain contexts might practice cultural or social pressure, the fundamental theological sources of Islam do not support the enforcement of religious conditioning or conversion through force. 


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#70 •••
@Debby

We know that isn't a globally adhered to ideology.


Though to be fair, all infants are subjected to enforced conditioning....It's an inevitable part of the inevitable learning process.

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#71 •••
@SergeantLynch

Arguments for Islam as More Liberating

Proponents of Islam as a more liberating faith often point to theological and historical aspects: 

  1. Emphasis on Monotheism (Tawheed): The absolute oneness of God in Islam is seen by some as a simpler, more rational theology that liberates the mind from complex doctrines like the Trinity.
  2. Direct Relationship with God: Islam emphasizes a direct, personal relationship with Allah, without a need for intermediaries like a priesthood, which some view as liberating.
  3. Justice and Accountability: Proponents argue that Islamic principles are rooted in divine justice and accountability, which historically provided a framework for legal and social order that upheld human dignity and protected religious minorities, such as in the early Islamic caliphates.
  4. Clarity of Practice: The five pillars of Islam offer a clear and straightforward path for religious observance, which can be seen as a source of clarity and structure that empowers believers in their faith journey.
  5. Historical Golden Ages: Advocates highlight the Islamic Golden Age as a period of significant scientific, medical, and intellectual advancements and religious tolerance, suggesting that the religion itself fosters prosperity and liberation. 


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