Jesus Wasn't Dead When They Took Him Down From The Cross

most of what you say backs up the Islamic critique of the crucifixion's realness btw. They claim it was largely an illusion and bodies even got swapped out. A leading Sunni theory is Simon who carried the cross body-swapped Isa (Yeshua) somehow.

The reason he didn't get his legs broken and why that matters is that it completes a prophecy from the Old Testament that the Lamb of God (strongly implied to be the Christ Messiah) will not have a single broken bone despite all it goes through and achieves.

The biggest problem for Christianity is claiming moral high ground. Modern Christians care more about to tell you how you are so bad sinner, while they themselves live an immoral life.

Trump is best example of this. A literal Satan in human form elected into power by Christians. Same with Hitler, Stalin, and bunch of corrupt politicians in between.

Christianity has no moral superiority, it never had it. That's why covering up gay sexual abuse in Churches was so common.

Imagine preaching against homosexuality while covering up for priests who fill mouths of boys in their free time.

Jesus objectively achieved none of the main goals a Messiah would. In fact, he did more to harm Jews than save them or bring them to promised land, and Revelations in Bible seem to not treat Jews as relevant anymore at all even upon second coming.

New testament is such a mess that Christians use excuse of "don't take it literally".

Christianity went from burning gays and witches, hunting vampires in 15th century, to being some washed down religion which reminds gays how they live in sin, while Christians themselves live in such sin that they made up excuse for not following Bible by "not taking it literally".

You know your religion is dead when you seek excuses not to follow it.

And somehow Christians today are nothing like Christians in 1980s, and those are nothing like Christians in 1940s, and those are nothing like Christians in 1900, and so on.

The reason why no generation of Christians matches any previous generation of Christians, and none generation like other, is because it's religion built to justify anything.

When they were condemning gays and witches to death, they were saying "Bible justifies it".

Today, they say "Bible tells to endure and not return evil for evil".

Bible can justify anything because it's 2000 pages of nonsense, and yes you can always find some verse to justify just about anything. From justifying wars, rape and genocide, to justifying some peace-loving pacifist Life style.

When same book justifies both pacifism and genocide, you know that it's nonsense.

Well stated Lucy.

And yes...If he didn't die then he wasn't dead....Which is sort of a logical conclusion....Though it is at this point where some need to introduce fantasy into the story....Divine resurrection is common fantasy methodology that inspires human stupidity...So much so that the Christian Churches were able to develop multi-billion dollar religious tourism industries...Where the programmed and gullible keep turning up to buy cheap trinkets made in the Far East...Such is salvation.

The reason he didn't get his legs broken and why that matters is that it completes a prophecy from the Old Testament.

Or because he was in a coma or unconscious- but alive.

Yes, his will be Matthew if my memory serves me. he had a terrible habit of reaching for his trusty Old Testament at every given chance

attempting desperately to tie Jesus back to the OT prophecies.

Have Christians ever considered what it was that Jesus was administered before he was put on the cross? It was a proper little cocktail of potions with medicinal properties.

He rejected it. Read carefully. He rejected the drink.

 He rejected the drink.

I Doubt it considering he didn't want to go through with it in the first place.. Maybe because that it was too early to take it and would have worked off if taken too soon.

But then we have:

Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost”. John 19:28-30.NKJV

What are the medical uses of hyssop? As a medicinal herb, hyssop has soothing, expectorant, and cough suppressant properties. The plant also includes the chemicals Thujone and Phenol, which give it antiseptic properties. Its high concentrations of Thujone and chemicals that stimulate the central nervous system can provoke epileptic reactions when taken in high-enough doses. _.We can only assume that this sponge soaked with the sleep (if not stupor) inducing narcotic drug Hyssop and vinegar was administered on a pole by one of those said to be standing at the foot of the cross. The soldiers it is said were too busy - “casting lots and gambling of the royal robes” “as it is written”- to be interested. No doubt it acted as a stimulant to Jesus’ nervous system and given the wounds from the nails the antiseptic would have begun to work immediately. Why had Jesus refused the first dose? Could it be that administered too early it could have killed him, if not attended to right away or, he would have fallen asleep on the way to and before the execution? And were the words “I thirst” the coded message to give him the drug that would put him under?

The thing about Romans is they were very good at killing people. When you say there is no evidence he was dead on the cross, do you discount every word that was said about him in the Gospels?

do you discount every word that was said about him in the Gospels?

No, just most of what has been said about him. You know same well what I believe,

Jesus died on the cross. That is why they did not break his legs to speed up the death process because Jesus was already dead. Read your Bible.