Suikoden Mafia DP1

Mafia are provided with some information on fake claims.

Is there a mistake here?

Eh. Probably not. No cult, just a scum team with a recruit ability.

I can't believe I thought there was a cult.

Mikal still locktown, Airmax still locktown regardless.

Mikal technically isn't locktown imo but he's very close actually

Getting ready to sign off for Shabbos. So far I have a fairly strong town core

airmax

milal

wylted

There is no hard anticlaim mechanic, but revealing information about your character will allow scum to use their roles to much greater effect.

Could scum have a list of characters that they can recruit? Cause they'd need some way of knowing who they can and can't recruit, otherwise this statement doesn't make sense. I suppose they could accumulate a list if they do enough research.

Certain roles and alignments may be subject to change based on certain actions taking place. 

Obv recruitment is confirmed here. Role changing as well is a bit concerning.

No cult, just a scum team with a recruit ability.

Pretty much just a cult effectively, though.

It does open up a possibility I wasn't even considering with a cult: Only one recruitment. I had thought that such a thing was unthinkable for a faction designed around the mechanic of affiliation changes, but for a mafia team that just happens to have a recruitment ability? Possible.

So theories:

-1 mafioso who can recruit multiple times (effectively just a cult)

--Addendum: Day recruit OR 1x lynchproof on the singular mafioso to prevent the game from ending too early. It's possible that the game really can end that early, but that seems lame. A bit of mod psych says Rex included something that makes it impossible for the game to end DP1.)

-2 mafiosos who can recruit one extra mafioso (intuiting this as most likely; solves the problem of having the game end too early while still having recruitment that doesn't seem too OP, while having a mafia team that behaves more as a mafia team than a cult.)

-2 mafiosos who can recruit two more members (leans into the recruitment a bit more; requires HEFTY town solving power in the game's mechanics, though. Seems unlikely, but still within the realm of possibility)

the yakuza question is interesting. But given that town has some clear counters to mafia's recruitment, I'm willing to bet the recruitment doesn't come at a cost. I don't think the recruitment ability is a Yakuza.

Alright let’s do this

Based on my PM, there’s one role that I’m thinking of that if it’s not in the game, I will be very surprised

It sounds like there may be some sort of mechanic that allows affiliation changes or something. If scum can recruit I encourage them to go ahead and recruit me, they won't regret it, but I will assume they won't because recruiting the guy who asked to be recruited is just dumb. 

Anyway VTL Kohai

Based

Ok one is probably Wylted. That post looks fake and gay

What do you mean about this?

Based on my role PM as well I am in agreement with this. I wonder if we actually have a scum team or if it just town vs a cult. 

Why a Cult specifically? Why not both?

As am I. Honestly Mikal is lock town

What about this makes him lock town?

Hesitant to say Mikal is lock town based on his extensive theme knowledge but it all looks really good. Very close to lock town.

What looks good besides that to make him lock town?

Honestly Kohai’s reaction looks like good behavior.

How so?

my character doesn’t mention the moon empire outright but the imperials are mentioned and context makes me assume he is a member. So imperials vs. rebellion with a protagonist split makes sense

my assumption is that the 6 generals from the scarlet moon are in the game and can be recruited and flipped. 

which are 

teo

kasim

Georg 

milich 

sanya 

kawanda 

in game it’s considers 5 great generals cus George dipped and doesn’t show up till game 2 if I recall. 

If this is your assumption, then why do you want people revealing whether they are Scarlet Moon or not?

So far all Mharman has done is throw shade and see if something will stick. I’m going to bed now but I’m parking my vote here for now. 

Mharman stands out the most to me right now as well.

Well I was hoping I could wait until tomorrow to post anything at all, but then I read my role and I don't have a choice but to claim right away, assuming this is still SOp, which it should be regardless of whatever new metas the kids are pushing these days.

I am Sanchez.

I am the Miller.

I know nothing about this theme so I will do my best to paraphrase this justification:

I am the treasurer of the Toran Liberation army...I served under some emperor and later became a founding member of a rebellion. However, I am still loyal to the emperor. 

Due to my loyalty I can't be recruited...

However due to my cover position all but the emperor think I'm a rebel and therefore I am the Miller.

So I am the miller and also immune to a recruitment game mechanic... so that's nifty.

So Max is probably the de facto lynch unless we find another suitable lynch.

I asked REF if he used my idea of 2 characters and 2 roles for fake claims and he said sorta.

I think he did either character or role, just based on his response.

The anti-recruitment mechanic basically affirms what Kohai and Mikal have been saying about recruitment roles whether scum or a cult of sort

I also want to add wylted to my town pile. 

anyway im off to bed for real. 

Why?

scarlet whatever thingy btw. Also I will be on mobile throughout the day, so probably no large posts til I get to work tonight.

myself - scarlet 

David - scarlet 

Castin - scarlet 

max - scarlet - Sanchez (miller, was traitor to the liberation)

Mharm - scarlet

Shining - scarlet

Luna - scarlet

Scarlet or toran

I’m prob not lynching max. I buy his claim. It’s either fake or he’s torn lock and if it’s a fake claim. Large chance for him to get caught out later. But I’m fine with leaving him.

Say there was a town/scum/TP split, what could TP be

I think there are 3 main factions from the barebones I’ve read so far

That is scumready enough, but Rex said in the OP, "revealing information about your character will allow scum to use their roles to much greater effect." That much greater effect would be that mucher greaterer in Mikal's lore-heavy hands, so, if he were scum, how eager would he be to persuade us that Rex's warning is less dire than it seems?

He would definitely want claims, but right now, the soft claim seems like a good way to lock people in. It looks like most everyone so far from what I read is Scarlet, so it doesn’t really mean much right now.

Unless the recruiting mechanic is somehow tied to your faction, I don’t think soft claiming is a bad idea right now

No, I'm not playing your soft-claim game either.

And why not? What harm do you see right now?

I have a hard time seeing scum mikal just openly disclosing his thoughts on the theme split like that. He could be scum trying to throw us off, sure, but since he guessed the split in like post 11 multiple people have confirmed being in a similar category. His only motivation for doing that would be for town cred I suppose, and since this game has recruit mechanics I guess he could be doing that knowing that giving the theme split doesn't matter, but still feels like a bit of a stretch to me. 

It’s NAI to me. I’m having a hard time understanding why so many people townread him for this. I think they should be looked into right now over Mikal

basically this ^ DP 1 is going to be the only time any sort of theme analysis could prove useful. So if we wanted to mass character claim or something that’s about the only real use I could see to discussing theme this day phase because dp2 and onward it pretty much goes out the window. Also we are still operating on theories about what the theme split is so while you may have happened to guess the theme split first try, chances are probably greater there is something we don’t know about or something more to the theme unless you think ref made a them split relatively easy to figure out.

I actually disagree with you on this. We were a millisecond away from winning the claim because we didn’t claim DP1 with the Yakuza. Character and role down the line helps determine your motives in DP1. If there is a Yakuza like role, we can use my strategy of finding the original scum. I thought it was pretty brilliant myself

I agree. This is probably a lock. I don’t see a world where w!max claims out of the gate like that. 

Unless it’s a fake claim

I think it’s just town v cult

the question is how many cultists scum starts out with… which will affect my reads this game

current guess one cultust at start with either a day recruit or a 1x lynchproof so the game doesn’t end too early.

it depends if cult gets night kills. i think they do cause I think they need some way of getting rid of those that can’t be recruited, makes the game flow a bit more normal as well

but if the don’t get night kills then I can see them starting off with more than one cultist

In a 13p game, I would expect 10-3 or 9-3-1.