K-Pop Demon Hunters Mafia - DP2

Vote Count

Thoth (?/3) - Pie, Vader?

Lunatic (?/3) - Vader?

Whiteflame (?/3) - Vader?

Vader (?/3) - Vader?

Thoth (?/3) - Vader?

I'm Mira. My role is that town wins if I and one scum are the only players alive.

Calling it a night soon. I don't love that it's largely come down to just Pie and I talking this close to the end of the DP, but I'll try to be on early so that we can get some final discussion and hopefully some claims.

I'm Mira. My role is that town wins if I and one scum are the only players alive.

I figured as much regarding your character. Not familiar with that role - any justification? I'll check back on before I knock off for the night.

I'm Mira. My role is that town wins if I and one scum are the only players alive.

You are soldier?

I figured as much regarding your character. Not familiar with that role - any justification? I'll check back on before I knock off for the night.

sounds like soldier

sounds like soldier

Alright. Guess that fits decently well with the tough look she puts on. Background is mainly that she's the black sheep of her family and rebellious. Not like my role is super well justified, so I can at least see the shape of it.

Also, looking for a claim from you before the DP's out.

You are soldier?

I guess so. My role PM says my character, description of character, and ability, but does not give a role name or explicit justification. Before you accuse me of lying because I don't know what my role is called, you know that I would have researched it if I were fake-claiming.

Also, looking for a claim from you before the DP's out.

https://tarateaspoon.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Vanilla-Ice-Cream-cone-glass-sq.jpeg

Alright. Guess that fits decently well with the tough look she puts on. Background is mainly that she's the black sheep of her family and rebellious. Not like my role is super well justified, so I can at least see the shape of it.

When I read this, I searched Mira and found out that I had her appearance mixed up with Rumi, but I am indeed Mira.

I'm willing to tentatively buy Lunatic's claim if only because it would be risky to claim vanillager when there are no other claimed or flipped vanillagers.

7 hours left

Alright, so this is what we're working with:

1. Lunatic: Celine - Vanilla
2. Whiteflame - Rumi/Zoey
3. Vader - Presumably Rumi/Zoey
4. Pie - Male (likely Bobby)
5. Thoth - Mira - Soldier

To me, the Celine claim comes off as odd. She's a former member of the group previous to Huntr/x and her main focus in the plot is on keeping Rumi's identity as a half demon secret. She doesn't get up to much in the run of the movie, but her role is pretty crucial since Rumi's identity is a major focus of the film. I can see her being Vanilla, at least compared with the other claims we have on the table (would've pegged Bobby as the obvious Vanilla), but I have more trouble buying this than I do the Soldier claim from Thoth.

That being said, we have to make a choice. I'd like Pie to chime in on both claims and give his thoughts. If Thoth is telling the truth, scum have incentive to kill him NP2, but they also are likely to bank on him being lynched next DP and leave him alive. I want to read Thoth's lack of a clear role name (Luna had to volunteer that) as townie, but he could just have made the active decision to not state it in order to look townie. Both players have elements of what they've said that have rubbed me the wrong way. If I had to pick, I'd still say Luna would be my choice of lynch, but this isn't just my choice and that likely isn't happening unless Vader voted Luna already since I don't think Pie's changing his mind here.

I'll check in a little later and we can discuss this before the DP ends.

To me, the Celine claim comes off as odd. She's a former member of the group previous to Huntr/x and her main focus in the plot is on keeping Rumi's identity as a half demon secret. 

Thats wild considering you mentioned my character being likely in this game like 10 times over the last two day phases, and even guessed that I was this character multiple times. Now its odd lol

Thats wild considering you mentioned my character being likely in this game like 10 times over the last two day phases, and even guessed that I was this character multiple times. Now its odd lol

Now this is just a bad faith reading of what I said. I said previously that your claiming Celine as a character makes sense. I still hold to that. You conveniently quoted only two sentences of what I said above that leave out what I viewed as the oddity: the attached role claim. If you have some justification that makes sense of why she's Vanilla, be my guest and provide it.

Now this is just a bad faith reading of what I said. I said previously that your claiming Celine as a character makes sense. I still hold to that. You conveniently quoted only two sentences of what I said above that leave out what I viewed as the oddity: the attached role claim. If you have some justification that makes sense of why she's Vanilla, be my guest and provide it.

I was literally just given a description of my character (rumi's adoptive mother) and told I was vanilla. There was no link or justification provided. And its not a bad faith reading, you literally said it was odd, after having previously voted me (only stating you unvoted me to prevent a quick hammer) so despite being perfectly compliant you are still scum reading me, and its a bit non sense. I am clearly your intended target this day phase. I feel like you are going to try some sh1t soon with 7 hours left knowing I will be asleep to result in my quick lynch. I am retracting my gut read on your actions being town motivated at this point.

VTL whiteflame. Probably isnt going to happen, but I dont see town whiteflame scum reading me when I have been perfectly compliant and actually haven't done anything scummy. This aggression feels pointed and oppertunistic, not whiteflames usual style. I don't think he gets an excuse for a behavioral change this game. This seems off. I have to log soon to sleep.

I was literally just given a description of my character (rumi's adoptive mother) and told I was vanilla. There was no link or justification provided. And its not a bad faith reading, you literally said it was odd, after having previously voted me (only stating you unvoted me to prevent a quick hammer) so despite being perfectly compliant you are still scum reading me, and its a bit non sense. I am clearly your intended target this day phase. I feel like you are going to try some sh1t soon with 7 hours left knowing I will be asleep to result in my quick lynch. I am retracting my gut read on your actions being town motivated at this point.

I said it was odd, explained my reasoning referencing the connection to being Vanilla, and then you left all that out and instead claimed that my issue was with your character claim, which it has never been. So yes, I'd call that a bad faith reading. And I've been very specific regarding the reasons I'm sussing you behaviorally already (see post #114) as well as explaining why Celine being Vanilla doesn't sit well with me. Your compliance is appreciated, but no, it doesn't make you more likely to be town just because you did as requested. If you want to believe I'm going to try something with roughly 4 hours left in the DP and my vote on absolutely no one, that's your choice. I'm almost certainly going to be overruled by Pie and Thoth is probably going to end up being the lynch. And if all this changes your gut read on me, I honestly don't care.

VTL whiteflame. Probably isnt going to happen, but I dont see town whiteflame scum reading me when I have been perfectly compliant and actually haven't done anything scummy. This aggression feels pointed and oppertunistic, not whiteflames usual style. I don't think he gets an excuse for a behavioral change this game. This seems off. I have to log soon to sleep.

Lol, alright then. Nothing's changed about my behavior since your last post where you felt extremely mixed about me, the only difference is that you feel slighted that I'm still sussing you after you gave up your role claim.

I'm Mira. My role is that town wins if I and one scum are the only players alive.

So your role is soldier?

I guess so. My role PM says my character, description of character, and ability, but does not give a role name or explicit justification. Before you accuse me of lying because I don't know what my role is called, you know that I would have researched it if I were fake-claiming.

Or Mharman gave it to you, and you’re feigning ignorance

I said it was odd, explained my reasoning referencing the connection to being Vanilla, and then you left all that out and instead claimed that my issue was with your character claim, which it has never been. So yes, I'd call that a bad faith reading. And I've been very specific regarding the reasons I'm sussing you behaviorally already (see post #114) as well as explaining why Celine being Vanilla doesn't sit well with me. Your compliance is appreciated, but no, it doesn't make you more likely to be town just because you did as requested. If you want to believe I'm going to try something with roughly 4 hours left in the DP and my vote on absolutely no one, that's your choice. I'm almost certainly going to be overruled by Pie and Thoth is probably going to end up being the lynch. And if all this changes your gut read on me, I honestly don't care.

in 114 you said I have been sussing players for shoddy reasoning, which isn't true. I said I would be suspicious of anyone who claimed to be roleblocked and a couple people even agreed with me about that, and I had provided reasoning for that stance. That said I didn't really throw shade at tons of people other than mentioning a gun to your head scum read on a thoth behavior point. You trying to spin this as me having reads bouncing all over the place is wild.

Secondly you've had your mind made up about me since you first placed your vote on me and keep finding reasons to back justify a lynch on me. It shows that you were never interested in town reading me, which as town I think you would have at least acknowledged some points to where I could be town. I know you, you are usually very reasonable as town and weigh both sides. I have reasons to believe every person here has a town case for them. You are only looking at lynch potential which shows that you aren't trying to figure out a town pool. Specifically with me, no matter how compliant I have been (Literally could have lied or resisted claiming and justified the sh1t out of it) you wont retract a scum read on me or even consider me being town. This is not resembling your town behavior in the slightest. The fact I am consistently noting differences in behavior from you makes me feel like you have to be scum at this point. If you think I am scum you should be lynching me. Period. This waffling about not lynching me because you doubt you could get support for it demonstrates that you are willing to no lynch. If I am scum you should want to lynch me and not waste time elsewhere.

Lol, alright then. Nothing's changed about my behavior since your last post where you felt extremely mixed about me, the only difference is that you feel slighted that I'm still sussing you after you gave up your role claim.

It was the unvote where you said you were ONLY unvoting me because you wanted to prevent a quick hammer and then waffling about picking a lane on me because you doubt you could get the support for it. You are being aggressive, but don't want to use your aggression to lead a proper lynch? Literally makes no sense. You are throwing mud to see what will stick and see who takes the bait. That way in the off chance someone like thoth or pie does wagon a read on me last minute you can get a quick easy lynch off. But your argument for sussing me is pretty inherently bad in the first place, especially considering I have soft claimed my role early and character and role claimed immediately when asked. I made a thread on DDO shortly before it closed detailing how vanilla was the best role in the game because you can play however you want without risk of being being killed, and dying is a direct laugh at mafia. Also you can use the role to bait the night kill, or just scum hunt and scum have no incentive to kill you. Its my favorite role and my best games tend to be when I am vanilla, for example, terraria mafia.

To me, the Celine claim comes off as odd. She's a former member of the group previous to Huntr/x and her main focus in the plot is on keeping Rumi's identity as a half demon secret. She doesn't get up to much in the run of the movie, but her role is pretty crucial since Rumi's identity is a major focus of the film. I can see her being Vanilla, at least compared with the other claims we have on the table (would've pegged Bobby as the obvious Vanilla), but I have more trouble buying this than I do the Soldier claim from Thoth.

Why can’t there be more than one vanilla in the game?

That being said, we have to make a choice. I'd like Pie to chime in on both claims and give his thoughts. If Thoth is telling the truth, scum have incentive to kill him NP2, but they also are likely to bank on him being lynched next DP and leave him alive.

Thoth’s claim screams fake claim to me. He has been asking me the entire DP whether I thought he had soft claimed, and what was his first question to me? Insubordination. So that means he soft claimed his character and role basically. Cause there is no way in hell that Voodoo Lady story makes sense imo.

I want to read Thoth's lack of a clear role name (Luna had to volunteer that) as townie, but he could just have made the active decision to not state it in order to look townie. Both players have elements of what they've said that have rubbed me the wrong way. If I had to pick, I'd still say Luna would be my choice of lynch, but this isn't just my choice and that likely isn't happening unless Vader voted Luna already since I don't think Pie's changing his mind here.

I buy Luna’s claim, and I’ll talk about why tomorrow cause it partially has to do with me as well. Thoth as Soldier doesn’t make sense to me at all. Just look at balance. Game could’ve ended DP1, or DP2. Soldier just seems like overkill for town. Granted we don’t know exactly what scum has, but the anomalies are just too much.

I'll check in a little later and we can discuss this before the DP ends.

in 114 you said I have been sussing players for shoddy reasoning, which isn't true. I said I would be suspicious of anyone who claimed to be roleblocked and a couple people even agreed with me about that, and I had provided reasoning for that stance. That said I didn't really throw shade at tons of people other than mentioning a gun to your head scum read on a thoth behavior point. You trying to spin this as me having reads bouncing all over the place is wild.

I didn't say you have reads bouncing all over the place. I said that I don't like much of the reasoning you've used for sussing other players throughout this game. You've dropped some of those points, but they're hard for me to ignore.

Secondly you've had your mind made up about me since you first placed your vote on me and keep finding reasons to back justify a lynch on me. It shows that you were never interested in town reading me, which as town I think you would have at least acknowledged some points to where I could be town. I know you, you are usually very reasonable as town and weigh both sides. I have reasons to believe every person here has a town case for them. You are only looking at lynch potential which shows that you aren't trying to figure out a town pool. Specifically with me, no matter how compliant I have been (Literally could have lied or resisted claiming and justified the sh1t out of it) you wont retract a scum read on me or even consider me being town. This is not resembling your town behavior in the slightest. The fact I am consistently noting differences in behavior from you makes me feel like you have to be scum at this point. If you think I am scum you should be lynching me. Period. This waffling about not lynching me because you doubt you could get support for it demonstrates that you are willing to no lynch. If I am scum you should want to lynch me and not waste time elsewhere.

We have just over 3 hours left in the DP. Do you think my MO at this point should be just sitting here waffling? Because that's what it sounds like.

The entire reason I went back and looked through your posts to write up #114 was that I wanted to check to see if my read made sense looking at it for a second and third time. Doing so supported the reasons I had for sussing you before. I don't know why that's a surprise or why that's a point against me. This is when we should be solidifying reads and making choices.

As for a town pool, frankly, I don't have one. Pie's null to me. His scumhunting against Thoth looks pretty good, but I've seen him behave this way as scum and town before so my read on him may shift depending on how Thoth flips. Vader can't say anything and didn't say much last DP, so he's null to me too. That leaves you and Thoth, both of whom I have points against. Could you be town? Sure. Is there anything that you've done that specifically stands out to me as townie? Not much. These responses have been the towniest part of your play yet, and they're making me question my read a bit.

As for lynching you, I've recognized now several times that that probably isn't happening. I don't think it's likely that Vader voted for you, I don't think Pie will either, and I can see reasons to lynch either you or Thoth. If/when it comes down to it, I'll support the option that ends with a lynch over one that ends with a deadlock. If you think that's off behavior for me, so be it.

It was the unvote where you said you were ONLY unvoting me because you wanted to prevent a quick hammer and then waffling about picking a lane on me because you doubt you could get the support for it. You are being aggressive, but don't want to use your aggression to lead a proper lynch? Literally makes no sense. You are throwing mud to see what will stick and see who takes the bait. That way in the off chance someone like thoth or pie does wagon a read on me last minute you can get a quick easy lynch off. But your argument for sussing me is pretty inherently bad in the first place, especially considering I have soft claimed my role early and character and role claimed immediately when asked. I made a thread on DDO shortly before it closed detailing how vanilla was the best role in the game because you can play however you want without risk of being being killed, and dying is a direct laugh at mafia. Also you can use the role to bait the night kill, or just scum hunt and scum have no incentive to kill you. Its my favorite role and my best games tend to be when I am vanilla, for example, terraria mafia.

I made my point to Pie a good while back. He stayed focused on Thoth. I'm not expecting to convince him at this point, but I'm continuing to make my case anyway. If you want to call that throwing mud to see what sticks... whatever man. I'm just tired of this argument. Softclaiming your role early doesn't really change anything for me, either, since you would have received the full fake claim as scum and made this call early.

As for taking the vote off of you, I play it safe regardless of where I expect people to place their votes. I didn't know for sure, and it remains a possibility that Vader placed a vote on you, so I didn't want to set you at L-1 before we had your claim or any discussion thereof. Literally just me being careful.

Why can’t there be more than one vanilla in the game?

I didn't say there can't. I said Celine wasn't the obvious choice for a Vanilla character based on what I know of her.

Thoth’s claim screams fake claim to me. He has been asking me the entire DP whether I thought he had soft claimed, and what was his first question to me? Insubordination. So that means he soft claimed his character and role basically. Cause there is no way in hell that Voodoo Lady story makes sense imo.

I've already agreed that he's made some odd choices and said that his claim could be fake, so yes.

I buy Luna’s claim, and I’ll talk about why tomorrow cause it partially has to do with me as well. Thoth as Soldier doesn’t make sense to me at all. Just look at balance. Game could’ve ended DP1, or DP2. Soldier just seems like overkill for town. Granted we don’t know exactly what scum has, but the anomalies are just too much.

I'm just tired man. I get the distinct impression that we're making the wrong choice, but I'll vote to lynch Thoth anyway because I'm just done arguing this. I'll get to it when I'm on break.

Thoth: Pie

Luna: WF

WF: Luna

Don’t Know: Thoth/Vader

What do you want to do cause we definitely should not be no lynching here