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@whiteflame
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I'm just going to go through and address the major points.
First, I cannot possibly be the GF and Magoroth knows it. If he really is the Sensor, then someone between me, Kohai and Mag1c either must be scum or must have been Framed (as he mentioned last DP). He's discarded the latter option (fairly, since only Wryly could have done it and both of us have every reason to townread her) and focused on me. Kohai and Mag1c flipped town. If I'm the GF, Magoroth's result would have said there were 0 scum on the lynch. I'm in a similar position to Mag1c last DP where the circumstances required for me to be scum are rather specific: I could have manipulated Wryly's result (she copped me innocent) and I would also have failed to manipulate Magoroth's result. In a game where there is apparently both a Cop and a Sensor, the idea that scum only has a response to one (the Redirector he accuses me of being wouldn't do anything against a Sensor) is pretty ridiculous. By contrast, Magoroth has no results on him, and thus has the potential to be just about anything, including a GF.
“I cannot possibly GF"
First off, I’m going to start by saying nothing you say matters to me personally because it’s obviously not designed to convince me, I know you’re scum because otherwise Wryly would’ve hammered me. It’s my job to convince her to make the right decision, and I can do that by 1) defending myself and convincing her I’m Town, and 2) discrediting you when you’re out to discredit me. Which you are doing. By doing the following: claiming the circumstances are EXTREMELY specific for you to be scum. This is just something you made up. Who cares how “specific” the circumstances for you to be scum have to be? This is manipulation. You are NOT saying you aren’t scum, you are saying that you should not be scum. No 1. you are not even flat out saying “I’m not scum”, you are saying “I cannot be scum”, which is not only a lie (I could be a scum from Wryly’s perspective and even admitted as such), it is also manipulation. Someone who isn’t scum would just state it, scumbag. You’re not doing it. I will flat out do it, as I’ve already done it before: I AM NOT SCUM.
“The idea that scum only has a response to one is pretty ridiculous"
Sensor is kinda hit or miss, my guess is you guys were told a Sensor existed and were careful not to vote together. That renders my results less useful, but still 100% reliable (as in the information is guaranteed to be factual).
From a setup perspective, Bleeder + BG doesn’t really make much sense, and I said as much (but at the time it was because I thought the Bleeder role card was possibly tailored). What does make sense is to give Town two roles that are kinda meh (Tracker + Cop), and one real investigative (me).
Redirector further makes sense because most roles in this game that belong to Town, that are of actual consequence, like Hated, Sensor, and Governor, cannot be manipulated. Redirector is very obviously meant to deal with the Cop and the Tracker. Tracker is less relevant because you guys have plenty of roles to make us doubt results - like that Tailor thing, Ninja and Redirector. It’s pretty in-theme for this deception heavy setup, for scum to have so many ways of messing with us. Well, obviously with the Exception of the Governor, Hated and Sensor. These roles all share the same theme - we deal with lynches. My role fits with the setup, you’re a random bodyguard in a setup with a fucking Bleeder, 9p, Cop/Tracker with Ninja. My role fits far better than yours does.
"Second, I made the case very clearly yesterday that my scumread on Magoroth was chiefly mechanical. I said that my behavioral read and only my behavioral read on Magoroth was town. Magoroth is new to the site, so I've been taking every behavioral read with a big grain of salt. "
Yes, you said this before and I already replied to it. Behaviour trumps mech every time. I townread the Cop even though mechanically I should’ve scumread her because Cop + Sensor + Tracker is ridiculously imbalanced. Well, that’s what I thought at the time anyway. It’s not that imbalanced with Redirector + Ninja/Tailor.
"But let's talk about that mechanical read. Magoroth responds to one element of that mechanical read by arguing that Thoth could have been scum. He obviously wasn't. Given that Wryly hasn't voted yet when she could just get a mislynch and win the game now if she was scum, and given Thoth's flip, it's clear Magoroth was dead wrong with regards to his argument of there being a secret Framer. Somehow he turns that around on me and says it was TMI to point out that that highly specific scenario was unlikely? Or that mentioning the Redirector, something Mag1c spent a lot of time talking about last DP, is somehow a TMI slip? Really?"
No, I was wrong with the specifics, Framer, I told you I’m not very good at setup spec yesterday. I was still right about scum having manipulation roles. Wanna know why I was wrong? Because I was Town. I think it’s a braindead inference to see you = Town by Wryly means there must be a redirector, and if I was scum I could’ve made that argument instead of going off about Framers. And yes it is a TMI slip because you’re redirector :)
"Magoroth also talks about is balance in this game if his role is Sensor and he's not doing himself any favors here. He points to the setup of "Sensor/Tracker/Cop vs Ninja+Redirector" and says it's "somewhat balanced" even though the odd role out there is... the Sensor. Ninja and Redirector do jack shit to a Sensor. He also doesn't address the big gaping hole in that setup, something he seemed to be acknowledging multiple times last DP when he kept saying that the setup does not make sense if I'm scum (267, 273, 314, 338). This effort to try and justify a clearly unbalanced setup flies in the face of his own logic."
Yes, obviously I said this setup makes no sense if you’re scum, but that was because there was already a 100% guilty on my side on you. And I thought if you were scum you weren’t immune to detection, so I thought the setup had to be 100% legit, no Framer, no nothing. The answer, that I somehow didn’t think of is that you’re Redirector and had the power to clear yourself as Town by manipulating the Cop. I already said I’m not very good at setup speculation so your goal here is to twist my poor understanding of setup stuff and make it look like I’m scummy.
"Finally, he mentions the decision to kill Thoth. A couple of important elements here that he's glossing over.
He forgets that I'm the BG and that he had good reason to believe I'd protect Wryly. Magoroth was very blatant last DP about me being his focus probably because Thoth would have been a much more difficult target to get lynched if it came down to the two of them. That's not to mention that, since he would have some means to manipulate Wryly's role, he was probably counting on her copping him and using that as leverage going into the final DP. "
In that case, I would leave everyone alive. Why force a 2v1 in which I’m sure to die? Thoth could’ve helped me because he trusted me more than you.
"Also, much as he's very focused on this lynch, he doesn't mention Kohai's NK NP2. As I pointed out last DP, that NK makes absolutely no sense for me, since it reduced POE based on Magoroth's results down to just me and Mag1c. He even called this out himself, saying how scum shooting within POE would automatically paint a target on them (449). The only person who stood to benefit from reducing POE was Magoroth because he ensured that the choices appeared obvious: just lynch these two and the game is over. Love the strategy, but if we're focused on WIFOM, Magoroth has plenty of reason to have performed both of these NKs."
Except I didn’t even trust my own results and was prepared to lynch outside the PoE yesterday? I literally still doubted my own results yesterday and was going “I think Thoth might be scum”, you are the one who convinced me Thoth couldn’t be scum yesterday! This looks more like TMI on your part that my results were correct yesterday, hoping to buy yourself some town cred that way, perhaps. Or maybe just arguing for the sake f arguing.
In what world do I discredit my own results if I’m trying to force a 2v2 vs you? I’m not even convinced killing Kohai is the correct decision for scum!me. I narrow the PoE, I’d rather keep it open and kill Thoth or Wryly. That way Town has little info.
You just pulled a big brain risky move, and I respect it, but you’re still scum.
