The Legend of Zelda: The Mafia Game (DP2)

I would have hammered him there without the CC regardless of affiliation unless he was scum. It's very easy to justify that lynch, so easy in fact that we should just double down on it but I will humor you. I just want magics claim

I would’ve scumread you if you hadn’t lol.

“No scum incentive” to hammer the guy that claimed Link?

Again, take note of how Pie repeatedly ignores the point.

I’m NOT saying scum has no incentive to hammer Link, I AM saying scum has no incentive to do such weird CC shit, WHEN they had an easy alternative to simply appeal to low time and hammer off that, BEFORE Thoth could even claim. INSTEAD, I pinged him so he could claim.

Like I said. Only way you’re getting a claim out of me is in a trade with Pie and Lunatic. I am very confident I nailed it on them. Especially with how Pie is arguing.

123 forgot to ping you

Again, take note of how Pie repeatedly ignores the point.

I’m NOT saying scum has no incentive to hammer Link, I AM saying scum has no incentive to do such weird CC shit, WHEN they had an easy alternative to simply appeal to low time and hammer off that, BEFORE Thoth could even claim. INSTEAD, I pinged him so he could claim.

You were peddling a Pie and Luna lynch because you townread Thoth. And you’re saying if you had just hammered based on time, it would’ve been fine?

You had to do this. Otherwise people would’ve questioned why you were hammering a person you townread lol

Like I said. Only way you’re getting a claim out of me is in a trade with Pie and Lunatic. I am very confident I nailed it on them. Especially with how Pie is arguing.

You are wrong.

What specifically did I fool you with in those games you are referencing.

and I’ve laid out my case in Pie several times already.

1. opportunism. Pursues Thoth over me when I’m townread and others are sussing Thoth. Only pursues me after the mistake from last DP, when he hopes the perception of me would’ve changed.
2. bad arguments. His bad logic, bad faith, and outright dishonest arguments/ignoring my real points has been well documented. When Pie’s logic starts to slip, it’s a scumtell. Casey did a good job of noting this in past games.
3. not being there for EoD, but then randomly showing up just after Thoth was hammered

opportunism. Pursues Thoth over me when I’m townread and others are sussing Thoth. Only pursues me after the mistake from last DP, when he hopes the perception of me would’ve changed.

I null read 3 people. Mharman, REF, and Thoth. I picked a person from those 3. Nothing more to it.

bad arguments. His bad logic, bad faith, and outright dishonest arguments/ignoring my real points has been well documented. When Pie’s logic starts to slip, it’s a scumtell. Casey did a good job of noting this in past games.

This is just wrong. If you are town, you have yourself to blame, just like Paper Mario Mafia. You claiming will help me determine whether you are truly scum or a moron.

not being there for EoD, but then randomly showing up just after Thoth was hammered

I already said in signups I was going to be with the girl until Sunday afternoon. I checked in when I could. Nice try though.

You were peddling a Pie and Luna lynch because you townread Thoth. And you’re saying if you had just hammered based on time, it would’ve been fine?

You had to do this. Otherwise people would’ve questioned why you were hammering a person you townread lol

yes it would’ve been fine. It’s common people will vote someone they townread on low time just to have a lynch, especially DP1.

and I don’t even need to go for any lynch on you or Lunatic as scum, nor do I even need to say I townread Thoth.

Anyone can check the thread. Before I re-entered the thread on low time, I was questioning Thoth and had moved him out of my town block. Upon re-entering the thread, instead of appealing to low time and hammering Thoth, I observed the situation, moved him back into my town pile, and then started pushing for lynches on Pie and Lunatic, only hammering Thoth in my own confusion about my PM after he claimed.

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I null read 3 people. Mharman, REF, and Thoth. I picked a person from those 3. Nothing more to it.

you’re contradicting yourself. You were straight up sussing me. I wasn’t a null.

This is just wrong. If you are town, you have yourself to blame, just like Paper Mario Mafia. You claiming will help me determine whether you are truly scum or a moron.

And then why can’t it be the same here? If I can be town there I can be town here. You know this. All of you see what was an obvious honest mistake. And you’re falling for it. And Pie ur a fucking dipshit for even thinking this case is any good. If I’m a moron you’re the moron supreme.

I already said in signups I was going to be with the girl until Sunday afternoon. I checked in when I could. Nice try though.

really, and you suddenly stopped being with the girl when it was time for you to enter thread and express your “confusion?”

Technically possible but the timing still isn’t good. Good effort, but no dice

yes it would’ve been fine. It’s common people will vote someone they townread on low time just to have a lynch, especially DP1.

But people aren’t going to vote a person who claimed the main character, are they? You know this as well as anyone. Multiple people have stated they would’ve unvoted.

and I don’t even need to go for any lynch on you or Lunatic as scum, nor do I even need to say I townread Thoth.

Again, as scum lynching the bigger fish is always desirable. Your hand was forced the second Thoth came on and claimed Link.

Anyone can check the thread. Before I re-entered the thread on low time, I was questioning Thoth and had moved him out of my town block. Upon re-entering the thread, instead of appealing to low time and hammering Thoth, I observed the situation, moved him back into my town pile, and then started pushing for lynches on Pie and Lunatic, only hammering Thoth in my own confusion about my PM after he claimed.

You hammered Thoth as scum because he claimed Link, who is a main character. It’s really that simple. You couldn’t use time because he had just claimed the main character. Voting for that as scum is suicide.

you’re contradicting yourself. You were straight up sussing me. I wasn’t a null.

I said it was “alarm bells.” I never stated I thought you were scum.

And then why can’t it be the same here? If I can be town there I can be town here. You know this. All of you see what was an obvious honest mistake. And you’re falling for it. And Pie ur a fucking dipshit for even thinking this case is any good. If I’m a moron you’re the moron supreme.

Lmfao. So you admitted to being a moron in Paper Mario. And are claiming to be a moron here, but Pie is somehow the moron. Nice lol

really, and you suddenly stopped being with the girl when it was time for you to enter thread and express your “confusion?”

Technically possible but the timing still isn’t good. Good effort, but no dice

Uh yes? She was getting ready cause we were gonna go get ice cream.

Yall are the swing votes here.

Choose who you want to claim out of Pie/Mharman.

Current votes based on what I’ve read are:

Pie: Mharman, Mago

Mharman: Pie, Wylted

I’m out for the night. Toodles

Really wish this DP had started sooner. I'm on about 4 hours of sleep from last night (seriously, good sleep has been elusive for about a month now), and I'm having trouble focusing on the words on screen at this point.

The long and short of it is that I can see the case both of you are making. I think there are significant oddities in Mag1c's play, but they could just be legitimate fumbles, albeit very big ones. In particular, while CCing Link does stand out as a big problem, it also makes sense that he'd be mentioned in multiple character justifications, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he just saw the name a few times and thought that was his character. It's not great play, but it's not necessarily scum indicative, especially since the CC places him as a prime target for a lynch the next DP. It doesn't necessarily make Mag1c town just because it would be very sloppy play as scum, but considering how he's played as scum recently, it's not what I'd expect to see from him if he was scum.

As for the reasons Mag1c has given to sus Pie, the not being there at EoD is the weakest. I went back and checked and, yes, that's what Pie said would happen ahead of the game. A lot of the rest of this looks like Mag1c's frustration in response to tunneling (fair, I've been there) and the shift to focusing on him after the events of the last DP. I get why those would be frustrating, but I can't say the continued pursuit of his read or the decision to push Mag1c this DP comes off as scummy. It's not unusual for Pie to pursue someone like this as scum or town.

In terms of what we can do about it, I think the mutual claim probably makes the most sense, though I'm about to shut my computer down because I'm getting a headache. If you guys don't sort this out by tomorrow, I'll give my two cents when I can think more clearly.

Choose who you want to claim out of Pie/Mharman.

If it's really an either/or situation, then I'm definitely going to need to sleep on it. DP just started and I already feel like I'm missing something. I'll get back into this tomorrow morning.

Vote Count

Mag1c (2/5): Pie, Wylted

Pie (1/5): Mag1c

Wylted (1/5): Magoroth

Not voting:  Thoth, Lunatic, Rex, Whiteflame

But people aren’t going to vote a person who claimed the main character, are they? You know this as well as anyone. Multiple people have stated they would’ve unvoted.

This isn't relevant if I can just vote before he claims. And I could have. He was out of my town pile before I re-entered the thread.

Again, as scum lynching the bigger fish is always desirable. Your hand was forced the second Thoth came on and claimed Link.

You think you and Lunatic were bigger fish? holy ego batman. No. Scum tries to survive and will take what mislynches they can get. That includes Thoth. There's a reason he is one of the most frequently mislynched players, and it's because scum teams know they can get easier pushes on him. This game is just another example.

You hammered Thoth as scum because he claimed Link, who is a main character. It’s really that simple. You couldn’t use time because he had just claimed the main character. Voting for that as scum is suicide.

Lol you have no real argument here so you're appealing to "it's really that simple." Again, at the end of the day, you have no way around the fact that I could've re-entered the thread, been all like "yup Thoth isn't in my town pile anymore and it's low time so let's just hammer right here," but I didn't. It's really that simple :)

I said it was “alarm bells.” I never stated I thought you were scum.

Wink wink nudge nudge. Cmon Pie we can put two and two together. That is a scumread you moron.

Lmfao. So you admitted to being a moron in Paper Mario. And are claiming to be a moron here, but Pie is somehow the moron. Nice lol

I made an obvious honest mistake here, and you failing to recognize that would make you an even greater fool. Listen I know your brain's tiny like your wiener but this aint rocket science. My ADHD-induced mistakes are nowhere near the level of the retardation of ignoring precedent and incentives, be real here. This logic is cucked and you know it.

Uh yes? She was getting ready cause we were gonna go get ice cream.

How convenient.

As for the reasons Mag1c has given to sus Pie, the not being there at EoD is the weakest. I went back and checked and, yes, that's what Pie said would happen ahead of the game. A lot of the rest of this looks like Mag1c's frustration in response to tunneling (fair, I've been there) and the shift to focusing on him after the events of the last DP. I get why those would be frustrating, but I can't say the continued pursuit of his read or the decision to push Mag1c this DP comes off as scummy. It's not unusual for Pie to pursue someone like this as scum or town.

That's such bullshit. His logic is soooooo bad.

Again, at the end of the day, you have no way around the fact that I could've re-entered the thread, been all like "yup Thoth isn't in my town pile anymore and it's low time so let's just hammer right here," but I didn't.

And again, this would've been BEFORE Thoth entered the thread to claim. So his Link claim isn't even relevant for how you look at me here.

And yeah mutual claim or bust, I was going to include Lunatic but I'll leave it for now because as I was typing it out, I realize the case isn't as strong as I thought. I might still go for him later anyway but for now I'll at least consider the idea that Whiteflame could be ahead of him on my sus list.

The case against Lunatic:

1. At the start of DP1, he did nothing but post fluff, no analysis or commentary, absolutely nothing outside of his argument with Thoth, then disappeared. At this time, some people were inactive, so remember that scum had an incentive to hide like this.
2. When he reappears, he drops this:

I don't have a lot of reads so far, its been kind of an inactive day phase. Mharman feels good, no red flags from pie yet, whiteflame is just inactive. Wylted seems okay, thoth I can't take seriously because of his wylted hate campaign, Banana feels very afk other than a few odd posts, but ive been inactive too, Rex hasn't said a ton, mago doesn't really stand out, yeah kind of a bad dp1 so far

These are nothingburger reads. Really not impressive at all.

3 The push on me out of the gate this DP. Opportunism like Pie.

There is one counterpoint I can think of and it's that he wasn't on the Thoth wagon.

I still lean scum on him but my confidence has dropped just a bit.

And the thought here on Whiteflame is also possible opportunism on Thoth last DP and that he left after voting, and reappeared right at the same time Pie did at the end, which I wonder if it could be pairing, like one said to other "hey lets go post confusion for town cred since the thread isn't closed yet." His alibi is a lot better than Pie's imo but it's still weird timing, especially since they reappeared at the same time.

As for this DP, a little fencesitty imo.

Rex feels like his normal town meta is just solely on vibes, but I don't care for the wagon on Thoth. Harder to read because he is almost as inactive as Shining. Still null.

Wylted obvious town for reasons from last DP, Magoroth I think is asking all the right questions, just has a crystal clear thought process which makes him vibes town, posting style reminds me of the game where I was hard sussing him and he was town. I don't remember what the game was called. Even his questioning me on why I townread him from last DP reinforces my townread of him.

Thoth I still think is town for reasons from last DP, but I'll admit some legit questions were asked that he should answer.

Rex feels like his normal town meta is just solely on vibes, but I don't care for the wagon on Thoth. Harder to read because he is almost as inactive as Shining. Still null.

Elaborating: the town vibes and Thoth wagon just kinda cancel each other out in my book. one thing I sus, one thing I townread.

I sussed you and I townread Thoth. Simple as.

You tried pushing me when I wasn't online to defend myself and clearly stated hours before that I wouldn't be is the issue.

Nice it is looking like Pie + Lunatic they think thy can jump on it

Jump on it? I still town read you homie I just didn't like your push on me combined with the thoth thing is all, I was still leaning you being town, that just gave me pause.

Pie and Lunatic not believing I just goofed is wild

I can buy that you goofed. I feel like you are being very over defensive here man.

Is there a reason why you guys think any one town member has the right to overturn our lynch and aren't just doubling down on it, particularly a dp1 lynch with so little information that it can't possibly be smart to overturn the lynch there. We should double down unless you guys have new information that clears thoth

I wasn't online when the thoth wagon happened, my sleep schedule is majorly fucked up atm. But I think thoth is probably town.