The Legend of Zelda: The Mafia Game (DP2)

Why didn't you hammer before he claimed. It was kinda retarded not to? Waiting for somebody else to do it?

Scum would've hammered before he claimed... that's my whole point.

...which is why I'm not scum.

Do I need to walk you through my progression on Thoth? would that help?

Pies theory is that you felt it would look scummy if you hammered but once he claimed link than it would flip the lynch so you had to act fast.

Pie was focused on me having to explain hammering him after Thoth claimed. His case doesn't account for the fact that I chose not to hammer *before* Thoth claimed, despite me having the opportunity to do so, since it was low time and Thoth was out of my town ile at the time. Notice how Pie never engaged with this point of mine that I keep having to make. So yes, my defense does completely refute Pie's case.

I'll walk you through my progression on Thoth so you can see what I mean

Vote Count

Rex (3/5) magoroth, mag1cman, lunatic <-- L2

Mag1c (3/5): Pie, Wylted, Rex 

Not voting:  Thoth, Whiteflame

You see how Rex has nothing more on me after this? This one shut his mouth real quick.

I'm done talking to you because you refused to engage with any points, repeating the same thing ad nauseum, that if you were scum you would have hammered him before you claimed, which I already addressed. Any time scum pushes a lynch, there's a possibility the target can stop the lynch by claiming. One such lynch-stopping claim is the main protagonist. My entire argument is that you and mago freaked out when you realized the lynch on Thoth had hit a brick wall and that it might revert to mago. Your one point does nothing to address that, and it's all your willing to offer.

I tried to get a read on how you felt about mago earlier to test this theory but you blew me off and refused to answer. Then Mago pulled whatever that little gambit with WF was to derail the DP, which worked. Now you are both trying to flip the wagon on me. I'll wait for Pie and Thoth to chime in at this point. No point engaging.

I engaged with your points and refuted them cleanly. The reason I'm repeating that one point is that you have yet to defeat it.

one more time: I entered the thread with a chance to hammer Thoth on low time, BEFORE he entered to claim. Why didn't I hammer them?

You still don't have a way around this, and until you do (you can't), your arguments will get nowhere.

I tried to get a read on how you felt about mago earlier to test this theory but you blew me off and refused to answer. Then Mago pulled whatever that little gambit with WF was to derail the DP, which worked. Now you are both trying to flip the wagon on me. I'll wait for Pie and Thoth to chime in at this point. No point engaging.

Because I wasn't thinking about it, because I townread Magoroth. I think the scumcase on him is pretty weak.

But since you want an answer on that so badly, I'll say that you and Lunatic should both be eliminated. More you than Lunatic, since you,ve been against Magoroth from the start, while there's a very small chance Lunatic and Magoroth could be distancing. I don't remember what Thoth thought of Magoroth. Whiteflame, or Pie, because I'd still be sussing both of them.

Honestly in a world where Magoroth is scum, I think Whiteflame most likely. Magoroth and Pie argued a bit over me, and while scummates can certainly do that, I think scum's plan this DP was to jump on me for what happened last DP. So if Magoroth is scum, then the plan is that they were trying to avoid fallout of any lynch on me, either buddying or fencesitting for a bit and then deciding, which puts it between Whiteflame and Lunatic, with Lunatic 95-5 eliminated for the reasons I just stated.

Any time scum pushes a lynch, there's a possibility the target can stop the lynch by claiming. One such lynch-stopping claim is the main protagonist. 

So your argument is that I chose not to hammer Thoth before he claimed, out of fear that he might claim and ruin a wagon on him? LOL you don't even believe that. The obvious solution for scum would be for them to hammer, and close the door so that Thoth doesn't ruin a mislynch wagon by claiming... which I would've done if I were scum, and I didn't do because I'm not scum.

Even upon closer inspection, this doesn't really address my point.

"Mag1c why didn't you close the door on Thoth before he walked in? Did you refuse to close the door before he walked in, because you were afraid he'd walk into the house?"

NO YOU RETARD, I WOULD HAVE CLOSED THE DOOR IF I WERE AFRAID HE'D WALK INTO THE HOUSE.

This is the level of intelligence I'm dealing with here. Rex is either an idiot for having this case, or an idiot for thinking this case could possibly get me mislynched.

Really wish this DP had started sooner. I'm on about 4 hours of sleep from last night (seriously, good sleep has been elusive for about a month now), and I'm having trouble focusing on the words on screen at this point.

The long and short of it is that I can see the case both of you are making. I think there are significant oddities in Mag1c's play, but they could just be legitimate fumbles, albeit very big ones.

Could it be? Sure. Anything is possible. But the fact that he thinks he’s entitled to be townread for it is a disgrace. If he made the mistake, he’s an idiot for it. You were Mikal’s partner in Alien Mafia, so you know that Town just took it as a legitimate mistake and moved on. I’m not making the same mistake again. At the worst he’s scum. At the best, this sets a bad precedent.

In particular, while CCing Link does stand out as a big problem, it also makes sense that he'd be mentioned in multiple character justifications, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he just saw the name a few times and thought that was his character. It's not great play, but it's not necessarily scum indicative, especially since the CC places him as a prime target for a lynch the next DP. It doesn't necessarily make Mag1c town just because it would be very sloppy play as scum, but considering how he's played as scum recently, it's not what I'd expect to see from him if he was scum.

I don’t think it’s sloppy at all. His obvious goal was to lynch Thoth. He was going to lynch him to begin with. But then Thoth dropped the bomb that he was Link. Naturally, that would’ve derailed the lynch. But he just hammers first blindly without checking his PM.

As for the reasons Mag1c has given to sus Pie, the not being there at EoD is the weakest. I went back and checked and, yes, that's what Pie said would happen ahead of the game.

Yes, I did, and I got an earful last night.

A lot of the rest of this looks like Mag1c's frustration in response to tunneling (fair, I've been there) and the shift to focusing on him after the events of the last DP. I get why those would be frustrating, but I can't say the continued pursuit of his read or the decision to push Mag1c this DP comes off as scummy. It's not unusual for Pie to pursue someone like this as scum or town.

In terms of what we can do about it, I think the mutual claim probably makes the most sense, though I'm about to shut my computer down because I'm getting a headache. If you guys don't sort this out by tomorrow, I'll give my two cents when I can think more clearly.

He hammered Link. That should objectively be scummy. He can make whatever excuse he want. But the fact is that he hammered Link.

I noticed how you are attacking logic instead of providing reasons you are town

LOLOLOLL

What do I even say to this? I don't whether to laught, cry, explode, or bash my head against a brick wall.

YES I'M ATTACKING THE LOGIC OF A SCUM CASE AGAINST ME, THE COUNTERPOINTS ARE ME PROVIDING A REASON I'M TOWN. I HAD A CHANCE TO BE OPPORTUNISTIC BEFORE HE CLAIMED, AND I PASSED IT UP, AND YOU IDIOTS ARE STILL CLAIMING I'M BEING OPPORTUNISITC FOR REFUSING TO BE OPPORTUNISTIC.

ARE YOU PEOPLE TRYING TO RAGE BAIT ME INTO SAYING FUCK THIS SHIT AND COPYPASTING MY PM?????? BECAUSE IT IS STARTING TO FUCKING WORK!!!!!

WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN STRAWMAN. THATS LITERALLY HIS LOGIC YOU COMPLETE FUCKING TROGLODYTE. YOUI PEOPLE DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND THE ARGUMENTS YOU ARE MAKING. WHAT THE FUCK

Why wouldn't you literally just state your role before offering up a mod kill

BECAUSE YOU FUCKERS DONT DERSEVRE MY CLAIM FOR THIS DUMBASS PUSH

I WOULD RATHER KILL MYSELF AND LET YOU DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR MEANING OF LIFE IS 42 ASS IQS THAN FUCKING CLAIM. FUCK YOU PEOPLE GENUINELY FUCK YOU

FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU

My personal case for being town is that I am town. I don't need to attack any case on me or logic. See how easy that is and if anyone gets three votes on me I will just claim. No big deal. I don't see the issue here

THATS NOT MY FUCKING LOGIC YOU RETARD. THATS A REAL FUCKING STRAWMAN. MY WHJOLE POINT IS THAT I HAD A CHANCE TO BE OPPORTUNISTIC BEFORE HE CLAIMED, AND PASSED IT UP. THAT ISN'T ME ARGUING TOWN BECAUSE IMN TOWN DUMBASS THATS YOU ARGUING IM SCUM BECAUSE IM SCUM

FUCKING MORONS

GO FUCK YOURSELVES

BECAUSE SCUM WOULD SEE THOTH AT L1 ABSENT FROM THE THREAD WITH LESS THAN AN HOUR IN THE DP AND JUST HAMMER

I DIDN'T AND THAT WHY IM TOWN

FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME

I LITERALLY PINGED HIM SO HE COULD CLAIM TO GIVE HIM A CHANCE

What if both of you are town here and just being stubborn knuckleheads?

"If you were my sons I would knock your heads together and lock you in a room until you remembered you are brothers!" -Catelyn Stark, GOT

That’s fine. It’s a distinct possibility. I’m asking him to full claim so that I can make that determination.

To be fair also Mikal is a very different player from mharman, mharman is more careful as scum. We literally just saw his scum game in Ted Lasso, this was not even close to a strategy he used.

Is he more careful as scum vs town though is the question. He had Paper Mario example up in a heartbeat. He’s being extremely defensive and resorting to ad hom.

He was very controlled and calculated there. I think as town you are less likely to focus on your own role, and more eager to get in and scum hunt also. Scum are usually more focused on their PM and it's structure. And if you are not majorly into the zelda franchise I could see you getting zelda and link mixed up. 

Just my take here. 

He lied about the gender of his character. Pretty sure that was his first post in DP1. If he’s town, he’s literally blaming someone else for his own mistakes. Everyone who is voting him is retard. That’s something I looked back just now. In Ranger’s Apprentice, he sees votes on him, resorts to ad homs.