Alyssa feels like scum caught in a spotlight, desperately trying to disentangle and bus their scummate but having a very hard time of it due to the specific situation.
You think Alyssa and Thoth are partnered? I still think that's unlikely.
TP was also my interpretation of this. The question just becomes are they solely their own win con or can they joint win?
Not really seeing Wylted's case against Wryly tbh. I guess she could be scum, but she's far from the top of my list.
Their interactions feel like someone at a bar being hit on by an extremely drunk, inexplicably sticky dude, and constantly trying to extricate themselves from unwanted, clumsy attempts at physical affection.
That doesn't really address the point that, if she and Thoth are partnered, she chose to defend him in an extremely conspicuous way, and I just don't think that the scum team would plan on doing that kind of play.
If they are so tied together that one flipping scum means the other will be lynched, defending really is the only thing to make sense even if it is a desperate play.
Defending and trying to distance as much as possible. Which is what I see.
You would Vtnl over voting Thoth?
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
You would Vtnl over voting Thoth?
I would, yeah. It's not like we can't lynch him tomorrow if that's what the town wants.
To be clear, if we are going to lynch someone today, I don't think Thoth is a bad choice necessarily. I just prefer a VTNL for reasons I've already explained.
Whats the math on VTNLing over mislynching? I get the meta here is to lynch DP1 even if it results in a mislynch
not lynching isn’t how you catch scum lol.
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Here's the math: VTNLing is FUCKING GAY.
The city of Seoul is overrun. Ants from Jeju Island have begun to spread beyond the gate, swarming into the mainland, attacking civilians, adapting, evolving. They can fly now. Something that was never seen before. This is no longer contained. This is no longer just an island. The S-Rank gate that has never been closed has already claimed too many lives, hunters, soldiers, entire raid teams. Now, the world is watching as Korea prepares for one final attempt. Guilds from across the country stand ready, joined by hunters from other nations, all coming together for what may be humanity’s last chance to stop the hive. Every hunter. Every citizen. Every nation. All of it comes down to this. And yet… the world looks toward one man, the one hunter who could change everything. But he refuses. He has no desire to join the raid. No desire to work with any guild. And when you hold that kind of power… why would you?
Alright, so that's ominous...
For context, Sung Jin-woo does canonically show up and is absolutely essential to winning this fight, particularly after an incredibly powerful ant shows up on Juju Island (the Ant King - and yes, for anyone who has seen Hunter X Hunter, it is absolutely cribbing from the Chimera Ant arc), but there is a substantial period of time where he just seems to not care at all and doesn't involve himself in the raid.
My preference is still to VTNL, but I'm also fine with lynching an inactive. The main reason I said I was pro-ending the day is just that I feel like progress has stalled to an extent. I'd agree that hearing more from Shining and Vader would be helpful, and Max of course, but like Pie said, at a certain point it begins to feel like pulling teeth. Though I'll concede that Banana did actually show up and post her reads, which was helpful. In the meantime, though, it feels like we're just waiting for the others to say something. But I guess we do have time, after all. If the town wants to wait, I suppose it's nbd. I just want to see some progress being made.
I'm not categorically opposed to a VTNL, even if I think getting a flip would be more useful. This explanation does help a bit to put your views in context. I'm not expecting Max to post, hence I think he's fine enough as a default lynch at this point, I'm just in no rush to get to it. I do think there is some worthwhile conversation to be had in the meantime, still working on developing my behavioral reads as we type.
WRT #913/914,
No, I'm not rage baiting. You've multiple times already mentioned that you have made choices to try to get an advantage over Wylted. You can say that you will put finding scum over the guild wincon, but the way you talk about your choices makes it clear that the line lies somewhere in the middle. You prioritize the guild wincon, but only to an extent. It's in the space occupied by that extent in which your self interests to supercedes the interests of the town.
WRT calling your posts spam, no that wasn't personal. The vast majority of posts in that range I called spam were spam, and most of what wasn't didn't offer particularly new insights. I made that comment to players who were already feeling overwhelmed by catching up. Cutting out 100 posts makes the task much less daunting. If you think your posts were unique enough to provide sufficient value to outweigh the players catching up having to trudge through layers of shit to get to your posts, well that's just a difference in evaluation.
I believe she is breaking up other people's reads as a way to simulate what town would look like when scum hunting.
I also have a lot of respect for her game as town and she appears to be playing worse and is less useful than she usually is as town.
I imagine some of these traits would be easier to see in real life and she is likely a terrible liar in real life and this stuff would come across easier if it was voiced rather than written.
I've been dealing with several medical problems with gran the last two days. Sorry I haven't been contributing as much. I'll also admit to feeling pretty out of my depth with the amount of veteran players we have this game. I'm mostly just dog paddling in the wake of your speedboats.
And it's just my nature as town to critically analyze the scumreads that are on the table, and to be careful with pulling the trigger myself.
The city of Seoul is overrun. Ants from Jeju Island have begun to spread beyond the gate, swarming into the mainland, attacking civilians, adapting, evolving. They can fly now. Something that was never seen before. This is no longer contained. This is no longer just an island. The S-Rank gate that has never been closed has already claimed too many lives, hunters, soldiers, entire raid teams. Now, the world is watching as Korea prepares for one final attempt. Guilds from across the country stand ready, joined by hunters from other nations, all coming together for what may be humanity’s last chance to stop the hive. Every hunter. Every citizen. Every nation. All of it comes down to this. And yet… the world looks toward one man, the one hunter who could change everything. But he refuses. He has no desire to join the raid. No desire to work with any guild. And when you hold that kind of power… why would you?
I wish I knew if this was just a scripted hint or if it heralds some new development in the game mechanics.
After digging I would favor lynching over VNTL. I know I proposed the concept but in general it gives us the benefits of having a flip to angle night actions around and having a D2 gamestate that more players will be able to work with.
I am not advocating for them to be the target but I will say I am not opposed to Thoth. My main issue with eliminating them is their absurd honesty. I see them claiming a guild spy who redirects recruitment attempts and has some 3rd function on top of that passive. Ok.. That sounds wild.
Thats much more powerful than me for one. I question that bit on balance. I expect Mafia/Neutral to be more powerful and that lines up there.
But in their defense why in the ever living fuck would an evil player be honest about having that power? Its an absurdly scum sided power. If I was evil with such functions I would lie my ass off before admitting I had such powers.
Tangentially the positioning on them is of value. Many people have taken positions one way or the other so either way they flip holds solving value.
I am still digging and would rather come up with a hard case I can push on someone but its a busy day and figured I would present my reasoning on Thoth as we are getting closer to the EOD
--> @Mestari
The guy who can redirect recruits to mafia teammates in order to activate abilities and who is tell you who is in a guild if and only if a mafia teammate is in the guild already.
--> @Wylted
Who claimed that. I think I missed ut
This is essentially what Thoth's claim breaks down to.
1) He can't be recruited
2) If recruited, he could direct the recruit to another player
2a) That was only for N0, so we can no longer verify it
3) He claims that at some point he will be able to tell you who is in a particular guild
3a) I reckon this is just disguising mafia feeding mafia info as an ability
We have 2 abilities that cannot be verified, one of which is apparently not even active anymore. We have this from a character who, in the anime, has no reason to be and to direct a hunter to joining a guild, or any indication that they could acquire insider knowledge about a guild.
I understand the argument that mafia would be given a better fake claim. Another member of the Mafia may have breadcrumbed the fake claim already, or mechanically the fake claim could fit the role of another mafia member better. Further, if I'm mafia and the mod gives me a banger fake claim, I'm not letting the guy who spilled insider information and who is on the hot seat use it. It makes more sense strategically to pair a good mod provided fake claim with a player who is already town read to help remove them from the PoE.
I wish I knew if this was just a scripted hint or if it heralds some new development in the game mechanics.
Same. For the record, I don't see where this points to SJW being TP. He's the good guy in the show. If anything it indicates he has powers without joining a guild, and perhaps he might lose them if he joined one. Either way he'd have to yield using his actions to allow guild leaders to continue recruiting, so joining a guild would be negative net utility, especially because SJW is probably some powerful flavor of JOAT. With that said, the more characters there are who can't or won't join guilds, the sketchier Thoth's claim becomes.
They can no longer redirect recruitments and it's at an undeterminable point that they will be able to guild spy. They aren't powerful abilities, they are fake.
From my character's perspective he's, uh, not the good guy to put it lightly.
If he's scum it's a shitty fake claim. It can't be verified, and after N0 scum have no reason to waste one of their recruitment attempts on an unrecruitable player just to confirm his claim.
I did ask Mikal if scum were given full fake claims or just partial fake claims. He wouldn't answer. If scum were given only fake character claims for instance, I could see Thoth perhaps snagging Sung Jinah and then manufacturing this unrecruitable thing to go with her, which could explain the "Mikal probably wouldn't make scum unrecruitable or hand out 'unrecruitable' as a scum fake claim" problem.
Clearly the theme split revolves strong the Jeju Island Arc. Did your character work towards defeating the ants? If so, it's obvious why you would be on the same team as SJW.
If he's scum it's a shitty fake claim. It can't be verified, and after N0 scum have no reason to waste one of their recruitment attempts on an unrecruitable player just to confirm his claim.
If he's town then unless he has a good 3rd ability, his role doesn't do anything anyway. Not that there can't be neutral or negative utility roles, just that there's not a big mechanical loss in losing his role and it's far outweighed by the ability to analyze the wagon.
I wish I knew if this was just a scripted hint or if it heralds some new development in the game mechanics.
It is tied to something that happened in game because in the show Jin Woo helps on jeju island and Mikal is saying that Jin Woo is actively choosing not to take a side or participate in jeju island. I think there is a third party or something who is Jin Woo and they had to make a choice to joins guild or remain 3p and they chose to remain 3p. Or something like that.
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
If he's town then unless he has a good 3rd ability, his role doesn't do anything anyway. Not that there can't be neutral or negative utility roles, just that there's not a big mechanical loss in losing his role and it's far outweighed by the ability to analyze the wagon.
Normally I'd say that "it won't be a huge loss anyway" is a poor counterargument to reasonable doubt.
But not in a 17 player game.
It is tied to something that happened in game because in the show Jin Woo helps on jeju island and Mikal is saying that Jin Woo is actively choosing not to take a side or participate in jeju island. I think there is a third party or something who is Jin Woo and they had to make a choice to joins guild or remain 3p and they chose to remain 3p. Or something like that.
If the MC is 3P, what do you think the mafia/town theme split is?
No, I'm not rage baiting. You've multiple times already mentioned that you have made choices to try to get an advantage over Wylted. You can say that you will put finding scum over the guild wincon, but the way you talk about your choices makes it clear that the line lies somewhere in the middle. You prioritize the guild wincon, but only to an extent. It's in the space occupied by that extent in which your self interests to supercedes the interests of the town.
Like I said the only reason I even give any sort of shit about the game
mechanic of the guild thing is out of respect for Mikal who asked me to try and take it seriously but I even directly told him I would but that hunting scum would be more important. That said I have been trying to be compliant and open with information and immediately agreed to ousting my recruits. Wylted did not. If anyone is playing into the guild mechanic heavily it’s him. The only thing I said was that I was bluffing that helz accepted my recruit but that’s not a negative impact to the town and the best possible outcome of that result is that Wylted decides not to try and play guild mechanics which is what you claim you want right?
If you think your posts were unique enough to provide sufficient value to outweigh the players catching up having to trudge through layers of shit to get to your posts, well that's just a difference in evaluation.
I was questioning Thoth who you seem to want to turbo lynch anyway and made a call to action for several players to join me in pressuring him. Not saying that every post we made was adding extreme value but there’s not many people posting over night which is usually when I am on and posting so I am only able to talk to a limited amount of people during that time, Thoth just happened to also be one of those people
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
