-->
@Thoth
Not necessarily, but you have to look at whiteflame's intentions here. I've never thought of whiteflame as death-tunnelly or inclined to sheep. In #1337 (interesting number), whiteflame posted for the first time in nine hours to broadside me. Usually, whiteflame gives balanced analysis that weighs all sides of an argument, but here he rails against me without pointing out one redeeming quality of my claim. If Wryly can suggest in #1377 that she might be suffering from perspective distortion, then I think you can see how out of character it is for whiteflame to be as one-sided as a Möbius strip. This tells me that his analysis stems from an undisclosed conflict of interest.
I don't see whiteflame as particularly death tunnelly in this situation, in fact he's been far less death tunnelly towards you than say me or mestari who haven't even changed our votes from you once this whole phase. Hell I was willing to lynch you before 90% of the even better arguments to lynch you even came forward. That said it is also hard for me to doubt whiteflame here at all because he is lowkey making the same points I am making but he is saying them in a more articulated way and getting my point across seemingly on accident. Full transparency though; I absolutely suck at reading whiteflame. I tend to town read him every single time he is scum. So if he is being blatantly scummy I am incapable of trusting myself to come to that conclusion barring some major scum slip. Thats one I will leave up to the rest of the town to figure out and if enough people think he's scum maybe I will bite.
I keep wondering what you people would consider a towny claim. With Mafia, and third-parties if there are any, confirmed to have fake-claims, the best claim in the world is doomed to suffer the slings and arrows of, "Mikal could have slid it to them under the table", unless it's completely confirmable like Innocent Child.
There is no right or wrong answer to this, claims that are scummy rely heavily on certain contexts like who the mod is, past modding styles, their writing styles, is it their personality to use certain roles, do these roles make sense with other roles in the game, etc etc. There is so much more that goes into scum reading you though then just us not liking your claim, that is just the icing on the cake.
Answer as best as you can without copy-pasting your role PM: Does it say that all players, except maybe guild leaders, are recruitable? If not, then I am an outlier regardless of your role PM, but only in that single sense.It's beyond my comprehension how anyone can question that not being a Hunter makes her unrecruitable,
You being unrecruitable isn't even close to my point about your character not making sense as a recruit because she doesn't have powers, not because she is literally unable to be recruited. The white tiger wouldn't recruit a non hunter to send them into S rank dungeons, because they would just insta die. Your character isn't like stamping her feet about not letting any one recruit her which would make more sense as an unrecruitable character.
wanting to learn how to heal people makes her the backup Doctor
Because in the realm of hunters with virtual super powers, a med school student (not even a real medical professional) is unlikely to do even a fraction as much as a hunter with mystical healing powers, where there are several that exist in the show.
and being close to Jinwoo gives her information about him.
I can think of at least three other characters that are closer to jin woo and know more about him than his own sister lol. Them being "close" is very loosely considered here because they live together and share the same parents, and are sometimes nice to each other.
Oh yeah, and if you think this is a fake-claim and the justifications are shitty, tell me why you think my teammates approved them. Unlike in Suikoden, I would have needed three people to sign off on it. Maybe only one or two given inactives, but I bet Alyssa would have pushed back on a claim she thought would go over like a lead balloon much harder than you did to the Leprechaun claim in Suikoden.
The point you just made for one was that I was literally mafia with you and advised against claiming leprechaun multiple times and you did it anyway. Chances are you were cocky enough to think you wouldn't be scum read for it. Others have made good points about this as well referencing that you are trying to cause as much chaos and confusion around your lynch to buy you time, and that has certainly been working well for you considering we still haven't managed to lynch you when the wagon started on you over 1100 posts ago. Pie also mentioned your claim could be to oust jin woo or a doctor. There are so many possibilities for why you did what you did, including mafia thinking you are screwed anyway and trying to distance from you and telling you to blatantly make a scummy claim so they can earn town cred from voting you, or maybe you thought the claim would have been more believable than it actually was and are surprised at the amount of negative feedback you are getting towards it, etc etc. Don't get me wrong, I can bite a good wifom argument like this but theres more wifom working against you than for you in this case. Also if you recall, I learned the hard way with you when I let you live in mylo in our first game ever. Remember I made this big post about over analyzing what you would or wouldn't do to make a case that painted you as so scummy you had to be town? I lost the game for that and it's haunted me lol. I was called an idiot by pie and whiteflame for that and in hindsight I kind of was lol. So I take wifom like this with a major grain of salt especially with players where its bit me in the ass before.
Do you think your justification is watertight? That is, can you imagine that anyone would even slightly question that it's anything other than a perfect fit for your role?
This one is probably not for me since I am town confirmed already but yes it makes pretty good sense to me.
I can't fully disagree with all of those points, but I don't accept the conclusion. If you assume every best case scenario for me being town, what number would you put on it? One percent? Five? Twenty, fifty, eight-five? If it's high, are you going to risk lynching a likely townie in the hopes of confirming their PoE on a third-party?
If I thought the odds of mislynching you were high I wouldn't have even be making this point. Obviously we should try not to mislynch. But people always make mislynching sound like the end of the world, and when there is a surplus of logical reasons to lynch someone, I am hard pressed to feel bad about mis-lynching. I'd rather focus on the positives that mislynching can bring to the future. You have seen town mislynch more than a few times day phase one and come back and win the game. You are narrowing down POE every time you do it, and you are creating activity and reads from it.
I would rather risk hitting Mafia or, better yet, if I were confident that I knew who Jinwoo was, lynch him.
I disagree with hunting heavily for jin woo, but I may be in the minority here. Part of the reasons I don't like third party is because it feels like it distracts from the real point of the game which is to find scum. I have said as much that my feelings about the guild recruit mechanics are much the same. I am indulging them out of respect for mikal and the design of his game. But I won't be super butt hurt to give third party a win here if it means catching all of scum. Pie would probably dis-agree because his elo is precious to him, for me its the joy of the game.
I understand that town sometimes has to make fellow townies take one for the team, but I know that I am town, so I have to self-preserve because, from my perspective, any lynch other than you or wylted has a higher chance of being a mislynch, and you two won't be lynched.
I mean it would help if you had a better alternative for a lynch that wasn't a half assed omgus attempt to get whiteflame lynched for making the same points as the mod confirmed townie.
As with whiteflame, my objection was to the arguments and the manner in which they were presented, not to the conclusion. ThothScummate!Alyssa would have taken a risk even by defending me with a straightforward argument like, "Everyone makes mistakes. I totally buy that Thoth's explanation that he read something Helz said and mixed him up with Mestari." Instead, she contradicted the explanation I gave in a way that came off as the most blatant teammate-saving act imaginable. I double-dog dare you to come up with any scenario that explains this without invoking implausibly poor coordination in scumchat or WIFOM for the sake of WIFOM like I talked about in #1220. Also, my read on Alyssa has moved from scumlean to null because I can't hazard a guess at her motive for defending me like she did.
Double Dog Dare accepted because you just provided me with two since you just retracted your scum read to a scum lean, indicating the read was likely contrived from the beginning, you never pushed her lynch for it, and she has been playing possum with voting you and unvoting you all day phase. Plus her initial defense of you happened way before the claim fuck ups that added to your pressure, meaning that at this point if she was your scum buddy, throwing town cred on you was more of a believable sell since it was mostly TMI that got you scum read in the first place. But it would be hard for me not to point out that you have essentially made some of the same arguments to defend yourself as she did to defend you "I would never do this" yada yada
In other words, you believe that one of Alyssa, Helz, and Rex is probably Jinwoo. If your Jinwoo suspect weren't in my list, you would call that evidence against me. Since they are in my list, you also call that evidence against me. Between this and laughing at my claim, it's clear that your hateboner for me is too rock-solid to let you consider any point in my favor.
Hateboner is a very strong word for me scum reading you lol but I am open to being wrong about third party being in the pile. I am already back tracking on that idea a little bit.
Damned if I do, damned if I don't. Also, being town-confirmed puts your motives above suspicion, but I'm curious why you aren't pushing whoever you think is Jinwoo. Do you not think they are a winsteal 3P?
Answered this already but yeah I guess I don't care super much about losing to third party,
Are you just that confident that I am scum?
If that wasn't blatantly obvious, I don't know how to get that message across.
If you knew that I were scum and a scummate told me the same Jinwoo suspect that you have, who would you think fed it to me?
Someone with theme knowledge. I don't know who all has theme knowledge, or if everyone has been open about having theme knowledge. Also could be someone who did a lot of theme research. I don't know who yet, but it's something I am considering assuming I don't totally retract the idea that Jin Woo is in those three people.
