I must’ve been drunk when I said that. Anyone can perform the factional kill
Alright, so... huh. If anyone can perform the factional NK, then someone else could indeed perform it if the other player is jailed. Frustrating.
Never mind. Disregard. What I said on DP1 was correct. Only the Lord of Chaos can perform the factional kill.
A-Caine wrote:
This is also worth noting
Description: You are a noble Amberite in charge of a wing of the castle dungeon, discreetly detaining suspects and gathering information on behalf of the Crown.
Ability: Pick a target during the DAY to jail. They will be removed from all chats for that night, be roleblocked, and become immune to all night attacks. You gain a one-night anonymous night chat with your captive.
Once per game, you may optionally execute your captive, killing them.
Jailing is a perfect roleblock, meaning that it roleblocks roles that are normally immune to roleblock.
If a mafia member is jailed then the team will know and the one who isn’t jailed can just submit the NK. Ergo town has no way of stopping the NK
I disagree. I think it simply means jailor will want to submit their jail action prior to the hammer.
Common tactic used to shelter N0 alignment cop peeks is for each player to give a fake N0 peek so post flip town knows it for certian. We could have every player roger up prior to hammer to enable this with everyone understanding who the hammer will be on.
I believe if not claimed or not Jailor should not hard declare their target. Let scum be forced to WIFOM out who is the target to allow for potential of mafia hitting a protected.
If Jailor has claimed they should reveal given they will be the kill, but the following day town will know who was role blocked that night (of value if there is only 1 mafia left)
I guess it doesn't matter, though. If we mislynch this DP, then it's game over anyway. If we lynch correctly, there will be only one scum so jailing them would still be a red check.
Never mind. Disregard. What I said on DP1 was correct. Only the Lord of Chaos can perform the factional kill.
Alright then.
So, again, that confirms that the Lord of Chaos role was transferred because that's the only way there would have been an NK NP2. We know someone has it, so the Blackmailer role is still very much a threat for next DP.
A-Deirdre wrote:
I guess it doesn't matter, though. If we mislynch this DP, then it's game over anyway. If we lynch correctly, there will be only one scum so jailing them would still be a red check.
Yeah This is why I think the jailor should out themselves.
I have a very strong jailor read on a particular player but don’t want to say who or why yet
Darkness greeted me before breath did.
Below me lay the body — pale, motionless upon a stone bier, dust gathered at its throat like the kingdom itself had already begun mourning. Beyond these walls, the realm was dying. Corruption spread from the roots of the kingdom to the leaves. Murderers hide in the shadows. The prayers of the desperate rose unanswered into the night.
Until now.
The Heavens send me with a single command: awaken he who slumbers, and save what remains.
I remember little of that place above anymore. Only distant golden light, voices like bells, and the sight of this dying kingdom flickering like a final ember beneath the gaze of the divine.
“This vessel once bore greatness,” they told me. “It may bear it again.”
So I descended.
Through storm and silence, through the grief of mortals, shedding divinity with every step until I became only consciousness — only will.
Now I stand at the edge of mortal flesh, staring into the face that will soon become mine. I do not know who this person once was. Hero, tyrant, king — it no longer matters.
The kingdom needs someone to rise.
Thunder shakes the castle. Somewhere below, something ancient stirs awake in the dark.
And so, for the first time, I enter flesh.
The heart trembles beneath me.
Then beats.
Yeah This is why I think the jailor should out themselves.
I have a very strong jailor read on a particular player but don’t want to say who or why yet
I can see the idea of it because it would prevent the NK and we have every reason to believe that scum have no means to mess with their role. That being said, I don't want to put a target on them during the NP, either.
Hello, I am the one known as Bleys. I am not the Bleys that was. I am the Bleys that will be. My memories are as yet unclear. With time and meditation I will surely remember the past and aide you in the saving on this kingdom. My task was made clear, but the circumstances I was to arrive into remain shrouded in a deep fog. While I search my memories, it would be of great benefit if you may all introduce yourselves and individually describe to me the events of the past months.
The advantage I see is that it strongly inhibits a Jailor counter claim and tightens the PoE.
The disadvantage is it removes one of our only outs if we misslynch and limits our options.
I am also interested in hearing both of your thoughts on my reads. Particularly I would like to see what you guys think about what I said about Random. Other people can do as they want with my Caine read.
A-Bleys wrote:
Hello, I am the one known as Bleys. I am not the Bleys that was. I am the Bleys that will be. My memories are as yet unclear. With time and meditation I will surely remember the past and aide you in the saving on this kingdom. My task was made clear, but the circumstances I was to arrive into remain shrouded in a deep fog. While I search my memories, it would be of great benefit if you may all introduce yourselves and individually describe to me the events of the past months.
hey! Do you have any reads?
My memories are not yet decipherable. I am currently delving into the past to better understand the present. Do you yourself have an interpretation of these murders that you may offer as aide in my quest?
Welcome-
Quick TLDR:
Deirde is confirmed town Regient. We have a town Jailor who is not outed.
The Mafia team is exactly a Blackmailer and an Illusionist. Both of which have used their functions right now. Blackmailer function may or may not come back depending on some mechanics. Later today I intend to play 50 questions with the host and really wrap my mind around it..
I would love to hear your reads. Right now from where I am sitting there is 2 scum between you, Brand, and Random.
Fun introduction to you, second head.
Hello, I am the one known as Bleys. I am not the Bleys that was. I am the Bleys that will be. My memories are as yet unclear. With time and meditation I will surely remember the past and aide you in the saving on this kingdom. My task was made clear, but the circumstances I was to arrive into remain shrouded in a deep fog. While I search my memories, it would be of great benefit if you may all introduce yourselves and individually describe to me the events of the past months.
Long and short of it:
DP1: Lot of discussion over what scum would use as a fake claim with an emphasis on Vanilla claims since they don't have access to fake claims. Led to some Vanilla on Vanilla violence where one player (Martin) was lynched by coin flip, another (Flora) was jailed and then killed by said jailor (we have since determined that this player is town), and another (Julian) was NK'd by scum (we now know Fiona carried out the NK given that they were the Lord of Chaos, the only role that can perform the NK for the scum team) and the flip concealed by an as yet unknown Illusionist (Janitor in all but name).
DP2: Mainly focused on Fiona due to both a lack of activity DP1 and a last minute VTL that went largely unexplained. In the middle of the DP, Fiona claimed to be the Regent, putting out a message that appeared in the OP. I (Deirdre) CC'd that claim, then Fiona proceeded to spiral. They proclaimed themselves Jester before hammering themselves (there are a couple of 3P roles that turn into Jesters if the conditions are right), but their flip proves that they were in fact scum and the Lord of Chaos. In the mix, Oberon was Blackmailed by another member of the scum team, which resulted in their death due to violating the rules of said Blackmailing by the end of the DP.
We now know who is on the scum team. There is an Illusionist and a Blackmailer remaining, and one of them has also inherited the Lord of Chaos role. When one scum is left alive, they will either be the current Lord of Chaos or will have inherited it yet again and will, presumably, also inherit one shot of the Blackmailer role.
Welcome-
Quick TLDR:
Deirde is confirmed town Regient. We have a town Jailor who is not outed.
The Mafia team is exactly a Blackmailer and an Illusionist. Both of which have used their functions right now. Blackmailer function may or may not come back depending on some mechanics. Later today I intend to play 50 questions with the host and really wrap my mind around it..
I would love to hear your reads. Right now from where I am sitting there is 2 scum between you, Brand, and Random.
If what you say is true, then the murderers are Brand and Random.
Can you further elaborate on the mechanical details of the game and current situation?
Doth thy maiden not understand how unproductive a question she asks of me? In a world in which the murderers are two of three between me and precisely two others, when is my answer ever not to be "thee"?
I have not yet looked into the setup roles list. Why do we know that the jailer is not the illusionist?
And we know that there's exactly 2 murderers left? Doth that include Mafia as well as third party forces or just Mafia?
Why is Caine not possibly a murderer?
A-Bleys wrote:
I have not yet looked into the setup roles list. Why do we know that the jailer is not the interrogator?
I really have to get to my work, so I don't have a lot of time to go over reads right now, but I'll do my best.
I agree with holding off on votes. Digging last night Cain was actually a decent town lean for me from the Fiona train / D2
They were the first to push consideration on if we were in Mylo and such. They were shoving Fiona prior to the claim situation and then they hard shoved Fiona throughout the day. I think its unlikely they are Mafia bussing especially given Fiona was not pushing back on them as I typically see with theater. Fiona was appealing to them which comes more from a wolf trying to placate a town.
I've gone to a slight scumread on Caine. He had scant little to say about Fiona in DP1 (fair because he hadn't posted much), and really only started into Fiona in post #131. As for whether they'd bus each other, I'd absolutely believe that Caine would bus Fiona given how scummy he looked coming into this DP. I also believe that Fiona wouldn't draw attention to the bus by pushing back, particularly if they were getting ready to fall on their sword (which Fiona clearly did).
Brand is still pretty null
I did note D1 #1024 from Fiona digging through the flipped scum
We have less than 1 hour. I do not think the lynch will be anything but Flora or Brand. just Relax
Probably the most potentially AI post out of Fiona I grabbed skimming their ISO. This was as Fiona did shift from not voting to voting Flora so potential of distancing there. They also never shoved Brand, just took a soft stance.
Something I noted people may want to glance at and get their feelings on.
If Brand did bus Fiona, they did it a lot earlier and with a lot less reason to do so, calling out the decision by Fiona to jump on Flora's lynch late in DP1. I can absolutely see the DP2 pressure as bussing from Brand, but if we're comparing between Brand and Caine here, I see the latter as more opportunistic.
Randoms D2 looked bad to me. Their hard focus on Oberon D2 after they claimed to be killed was very odd. The initial reaction I can understand but the way they doubled down on that position felt contrived. 3 specific issues-
1- They voiced it with hardline 3p focus in a game state it was being repeated that we specifically needed to hit mafia. This lines up with a mafia mindset
2- They voiced unreasonable certainty that does not track with their reasoning saying things like "If we leave his fucker alive. I would bet my left nut hes going to hijack an account." Could be their natural hyperbole? Could also be a scum messing up how to align his conveyed certainty with faked reasoning
3- They absolutely avoided the shit out of touching the Fiona situation. I get having focus elsewhere but never touching the major day subject while hard focusing on such a random tangent? This is the most concerning thing to me. Looks like a wolf who is frozen and does not know how to deal with a team mate going down so they say nothing then just slap on a vote when its clear they are cooked for the post flip optics.
I'm not sure why Gerard was so ready to townread Random beyond just knowing who this player is and how they generally act behaviorally. I don't mind that they went on a tangent so much (if anything, I kind of townread them for going after a mislynch that was never going to happen, doesn't line up with scum tactics I've seen before), but there was scant little focus on Fiona and it was just an acknowledgement of the CC as the target of the lynch last DP. I can't tell if that's just him trying to steer clear of saying much about it or being resigned to not being able to convince us on Oberon.
A-Bleys wrote:
If what you say is true, then the murderers are Brand and Random.
Can you further elaborate on the mechanical details of the game and current situation?
Doth thy maiden not understand how unproductive a question she asks of me? In a world in which the murderers are two of three between me and precisely two others, when is my answer ever not to be "thee"?
Interesting. I town read Cain and I know I am town. Neither of us are any sort of mech confirmed. Last page I explained my Cain read for you to understand why I am excluding them. Unless something changes I am confident enough in that read to run with it today.
Rough hard mech points:
I have not yet looked into the setup roles list. Why do we know that the jailer is not the illusionist?
I think you mean the Interrogator, but the answer is simple: because the game is still going. We know there's an Illusionist (the Janitored Julian flip), a Blackmailer (Oberon's death last DP), and the Lord of Chaos (see: Fiona). That's 3 scum. There are six players left alive and there are no dual roles (beyond inheriting the Lord of Chaos, which is necessary to execute NKs), so we know scum only have two players. We already know what their roles are, so there is no Interrogator.
And we know that there's exactly 2 murderers left? Doth that include Mafia as well as third party forces or just Mafia?
Just Mafia, though if there is a 3P left, that would be a pretty unbalanced game. With 12 players, the potential setups are 9-3 or 8-3-1, and with so many Vanilla roles in play (we've already seen 4 of them flip) and no Mafia Goons, it would be difficult for me to buy that there's a 3P in play as well. We also haven't seen any of the 3P roles listed come into the game in any obvious way. Doesn't nix them entirely, but more importantly, it just doesn't matter. We're at MYLO. The only thing we should care about at this stage is whether we hit scum.
Alright, I'm taking a break from this. I'll come back after I've gotten some work done.
Okay, I believe I understand. Illusionist and Blackmailer are mechanically confirmed, which eliminates Interrogator as a possibility. Therefore we have 1 confirmed town in the regent, 1 confirmable town in the jailer, and 2 mafia among the final 4.
A-Deirdre wrote:
I'm not sure why Gerard was so ready to townread Random beyond just knowing who this player is and how they generally act behaviorally. I don't mind that they went on a tangent so much (if anything, I kind of townread them for going after a mislynch that was never going to happen, doesn't line up with scum tactics I've seen before), but there was scant little focus on Fiona and it was just an acknowledgement of the CC as the target of the lynch last DP. I can't tell if that's just him trying to steer clear of saying much about it or being resigned to not being able to convince us on Oberon.
The narrative I am chewing on is a world where a s!Random as a wolf sees a team mate going down. They are uncomfortable interacting with other wolves (as many wolves are) so they just avoid it but need something to focus on. They end up landing on a weird push that makes little sense as they miscalculate the level of certainty to convey (which wolves do) as they avoid addressing their team mate going down. Then last moment they slap on a vote so they will look correct when people just look at raw wagon votes.
I could be very off base. But its what was in my head reading through D2 while focusing on what their mindset could be which is why I want to hear from you and Caine about it.
Am I correct in believing that the Lord of Chaos could not have body swapped yet as there would be a Lord of Chaos flip at night?
A-Bleys wrote:
Okay, I believe I understand. Illusionist and Blackmailer are mechanically confirmed, which eliminates Interrogator as a possibility. Therefore we have 1 confirmed town in the regent, 1 confirmable town in the jailer, and 2 mafia among the final 4.
Correct
Only really strong interaction I saw between one of the final 4 and the flipped scum was Caine shoving Fiona pretty strongly D2. They were even pushing the slot prior to the Claim situation.
We actually may not have a confirmable town. Do we know of anyone being jailed after the redacted flip?
A-Bleys wrote:
Am I correct in believing that the Lord of Chaos could not have body swapped yet as there would be a Lord of Chaos flip at night?
There is no Mafia Disguiser.
That Lord of Chaos role has a mechanic that promotes another mafia to get their role powers when they die.
I also think 3p is unlikely given how weak the town seems.
