Periodic Table of Elements Mafia - DP3

You can also confirm this with him because I checked like 3 times.

Also what I mean by to many variables and more likley to be wrong than right.

Mikal wrote:

FYI you are forgetting the part that wf processes first

I go off "first"

But a rod would pull me to them.

I dont resolve first.

That is per pie

bruh

?

Mag1cman wrote:

Helz and Mikal are in mechanical conflict.

If we assume Helz is town, the only real explanation we have for his action failing to protect Kohai, is if he was redirected away. Which points to Mikal being scum.

If we assume Mikal is town, then no one could have redirected Helz away from Kohai. Making Helz scum in that case.

I also asked Pie if a strongman could penetrate through to kill the target of a rolestopper and he said yes.

Mag1cman wrote:

Mikal redirects Lunatic to Whiteflame

Lunatic hides behind Whiteflame

Whiteflame lightning rods anything that affects Lunatic

Since Mikal’s redirect goes first, it’s unaffected by Whiteflame’s lightningrod.

Therefore Whiteflame visiting Shining (via Rex’s results) should not be possible.

Therefore Whiteflame is scum.

UNLESS:

Mikal lied about his redirection target.

Could Mikal have redirected Rex to someone who visited Shining last night?

Nope. No one targeted Shining DP1. Unless: someone lied about their target.

The acting theory is that Shining was busdriven by someone else, which would allow WF to visit him.

I would have some follow up questions actually-

@Casey_Risk Who do you town read? I am seeing tons of scum reads but just not very many town reads which pings me

@Shining What are your reads? Its D3 and your a lurking Nullburger I have nothing to go off of

Thoth I want to hear more positions from but I have a chat with so I can handle that there

Struggling to catch up and manage my obligations at the moment.

Accounting for #88 #89

Let’s try this again

Mikal redirects Lunatic to Whiteflame

Whiteflame uses lightning rod on Lunatic

Mikal’s redirect onto Lunatic gets pulled, now redirects Whiteflame to Whiteflame

Lunatic visits Rex like normal

A visit from Whiteflame to Shining still should not be possible. So Whiteflame is scum. Unless Rex was messed with.

RexFavilla wrote:

Mag1cman wrote:

Helz and Mikal are in mechanical conflict.

If we assume Helz is town, the only real explanation we have for his action failing to protect Kohai, is if he was redirected away. Which points to Mikal being scum.

If we assume Mikal is town, then no one could have redirected Helz away from Kohai. Making Helz scum in that case.

I also asked Pie if a strongman could penetrate through to kill the target of a rolestopper and he said yes.

ok

Nvm then

ts is confusing

Thoth wrote:

I really wish that Helz had waited for my approval before claiming to be in a chat, or at least before claiming who he was in a chat with. Yes, I am currently chatting with Helz.

Yeah, I probably shoulda waited or kept it secret for a while. Duno how much it mattered with the flipped town but there could have been angles we could have played if I had not revealed and the game is not getting my full attention

Casey_Risk wrote:

Helz wrote:

Casey_Risk wrote:

Helz wrote:

Casey_Risk wrote:

So, that solves one mystery, I suppose. Weird that Banana didn't claim her role and weirder still that she was the NK. Not sure what to make of that yet.

I don't expect anyone else to be on at this time other than Luna who's dead now, anyway. I'm only here because I can't sleep. Ironic, given my role, or perhaps fitting. No dream this time.

I do not see a world where someone visits you as town. Even if someone thought you were scum thats still a play town would want to hear you unpack more mech info.

I will have to chew on this but hopefully some mech result will show that visit.

Have you considered that the person who visited me was probably scum?

Obviously. I was pointing out that it must be.

There is the -or- where you are the scum and you faked a worthless read pool to cover your actual role. What you claimed is a perfect fake claim imo. I can not question you about your targeting because your information is randomized, you have a pool of multiple people which throws the town a curve ball while giving results hardly above RNG, and even if the town flips people in your pool you have both deniability if the flip is town as well as a stronger FOS on a second player.

To be direct right now I am trying but I am unable to think of a more effective claim to make as scum.

Sure, I understand where you're coming from completely, and I'll even add that I have seen scum successfully pull off a dreamer claim in a previous game I hosted (the one Luna was talking about earlier). The two things I will say in my defense: (1) as I mentioned earlier, I did actually soft my role in my very first post this game, and (2) I revealed my results immediately at the start of DP2, when I couldn't have known that no one visited me (and if I were scum, or even if I weren't, I think me being visited was probably the safer assumption than me not being visited).

Yeah, My lizard brain keeps cutting back to what a perfect scum claim it is. That and them not having results today is sort of convenient if Casey is scum. Part of my thinking is that if I was scum I woulda laughed at them making pools that shoot below natural RNG and let them get more peeks to angle around. And town would have absolutely zero reason to visit them.

So either they are scum lying, Scum did a stupid, or town did a big stupid. But in every situation I am scratching my head and questioning what happened there. I figure it may clear up as the day moves forward but I am paranoid on the subject.

Mag1cman wrote:

Nvm then

ts is confusing

I am picking up what you're laying down though. This all relies on a bus driver existing. If one doesn't exist, either Mikal is scum and redirected WF to Shining and lied about his night action or WF is scum and lied about being vanillaized and who he targeted and what he did. But as scum it seems weird to target shining since... nothing happened to him and he was just not on anyone's radar. The only thing I can think of is a framer. Redirecting someone too him though could make sense because you typically want to redirect town to town DP1 - if they're cop they could get a false inno on you, if they are vig they could kill another towny, if they are tracker you can get a mislynch off of bad results.

I also think that the way my vanillaization went down makes me think WF is claiming the truth. I claimed 2x. In actuality there was no limit on my tracker. WF was not roleblocked by the vanillaization, he still visited Shining. From a scum WF perspective, using it on me tonight was a waste because I would get my last 1x off anyway and then be vanilla afterwards because he should be assuming it wouldn't roleblock.

TBH the quickness that he gave a rebuttal to my argument is the only thing that gives me pause - it's almost like he already thought this through, which to me is kind of in character for town Whiteflame but even more in character for a scum Whiteflame who had planned all this out. But if he did bravo I guess, I need to hard town read one of you scummy bastards at this point.

I will also say if Casey is scum they probably have some non-visiting role. That would line up perfectly with the dreamer claim. Im not sure what scum non-visiting roles are meta on this site but something to consider.

RexFavilla wrote:

Mag1cman wrote:

Mikal redirects Lunatic to Whiteflame

Lunatic hides behind Whiteflame

Whiteflame lightning rods anything that affects Lunatic

Since Mikal’s redirect goes first, it’s unaffected by Whiteflame’s lightningrod.

Therefore Whiteflame visiting Shining (via Rex’s results) should not be possible.

Therefore Whiteflame is scum.

UNLESS:

Mikal lied about his redirection target.

Could Mikal have redirected Rex to someone who visited Shining last night?

Nope. No one targeted Shining DP1. Unless: someone lied about their target.

The acting theory is that Shining was busdriven by someone else, which would allow WF to visit him.

Ok. So that would likely be a bus drive with Shining and Lunatic.

Bus driver switches Lunatic and Shining.

Whiteflame uses lightning rod on Shining instead of Lunatic.

Mikal tries to redirect Lunatic to Whiteflame, but redirects Shining to Whiteflame, but then actually redirects Whiteflame to Whiteflame?

Whiteflame unaffected because his role already resolved.

No chance Shining is a Vanillizer target. So Whiteflame had to have been struck by a Vanillizer while Lunatic and Shining were bus driven.

Kill was on Kohai.

So one more role to account for, unless strongman.

so mafia’s actions would be strongman Kohai, plus vanillize Whiteflame, plus bus drive Lunatic and Shining.

That would imply Shining is scum. We know Lunatic is town, and I don’t see any reason to bus drive two townies.

And would imply Bullish is scum. Because mafia would’ve had no plan for Bullish. Unless: They thought Bullish was protective.

Helz wrote:

Casey_Risk wrote:

Helz wrote:

Casey_Risk wrote:

Helz wrote:

Casey_Risk wrote:

So, that solves one mystery, I suppose. Weird that Banana didn't claim her role and weirder still that she was the NK. Not sure what to make of that yet.

I don't expect anyone else to be on at this time other than Luna who's dead now, anyway. I'm only here because I can't sleep. Ironic, given my role, or perhaps fitting. No dream this time.

I do not see a world where someone visits you as town. Even if someone thought you were scum thats still a play town would want to hear you unpack more mech info.

I will have to chew on this but hopefully some mech result will show that visit.

Have you considered that the person who visited me was probably scum?

Obviously. I was pointing out that it must be.

There is the -or- where you are the scum and you faked a worthless read pool to cover your actual role. What you claimed is a perfect fake claim imo. I can not question you about your targeting because your information is randomized, you have a pool of multiple people which throws the town a curve ball while giving results hardly above RNG, and even if the town flips people in your pool you have both deniability if the flip is town as well as a stronger FOS on a second player.

To be direct right now I am trying but I am unable to think of a more effective claim to make as scum.

Sure, I understand where you're coming from completely, and I'll even add that I have seen scum successfully pull off a dreamer claim in a previous game I hosted (the one Luna was talking about earlier). The two things I will say in my defense: (1) as I mentioned earlier, I did actually soft my role in my very first post this game, and (2) I revealed my results immediately at the start of DP2, when I couldn't have known that no one visited me (and if I were scum, or even if I weren't, I think me being visited was probably the safer assumption than me not being visited).

Yeah, My lizard brain keeps cutting back to what a perfect scum claim it is. That and them not having results today is sort of convenient if Casey is scum. Part of my thinking is that if I was scum I woulda laughed at them making pools that shoot below natural RNG and let them get more peeks to angle around. And town would have absolutely zero reason to visit them.

So either they are scum lying, Scum did a stupid, or town did a big stupid. But in every situation I am scratching my head and questioning what happened there. I figure it may clear up as the day moves forward but I am paranoid on the subject.

My current thoughts on the matter are that it's a risky claim because you have to guess successfully that no town visited you NP1. For Casey, who was a major lynch target DP1, that is an insane call to make and get right as scum. And she came right out of the gate with the results. That's why I'm tepidly town reading her.

I am picking up what you're laying down though. This all relies on a bus driver existing. If one doesn't exist, either Mikal is scum and redirected WF to Shining and lied about his night action or WF is scum and lied about being vanillaized and who he targeted and what he did.

There’s also ways they could both be scum floating around in my head

Mag1cman wrote:

Helz and Mikal are in mechanical conflict.

If we assume Helz is town, the only real explanation we have for his action failing to protect Kohai, is if he was redirected away. Which points to Mikal being scum.

If we assume Mikal is town, then no one could have redirected Helz away from Kohai. Making Helz scum in that case.

This has been on my mind. I was not told my action failed either night. I figured D2 that some form of redirect/witch/control/movement had to happen for my action to fail which WF and Mikal fit the bill for.

Positionally I am also confused why both would openly reveal as that given its the core issue for the kill to begin with. My target tonight survived but obviously I was not on Banana. Really did not expect that kill.

So one more role to account for, unless strongman.

so mafia’s actions would be strongman Kohai, plus vanillize Whiteflame, plus bus drive Lunatic and Shining.

That would imply Shining is scum. We know Lunatic is town, and I don’t see any reason to bus drive two townies.

Re: #105

This hinges on there being a bus driver. If there’s no bus driver, then we go back to Mikal vs Whiteflame. And Shining is town.

if there is a bus driver, then Shining is scum.

As for the strongman thing: If Bullish is town, mafia should’ve had something for him. TBH, they don’t know if he’s protective or not; they should’ve have a way of knowing. Would be quite the guess.

But if they didn’t use any strongman, then it’s possible they had something for Bullish. At which point they used it and Helz is scum.

So Helz and Bullish would be in a mechanical conflict, assuming there’s a bus driver in the game.

Tbh, what are the odds all three slots has some from of interference anyway? Odds seem low.

Honestly, this puts town Bullish at odds with a town redirector (Mikal) OR at odds with Whiteflame being vanillized.

Bullish is at mechanical odds with either Mikal or Whiteflame, but not both.

Unless mafia felt Bullish was baiting? Would be some pretty advanced bait and an advanced call on said bait.

Helz wrote:

Mag1cman wrote:

Helz and Mikal are in mechanical conflict.

If we assume Helz is town, the only real explanation we have for his action failing to protect Kohai, is if he was redirected away. Which points to Mikal being scum.

If we assume Mikal is town, then no one could have redirected Helz away from Kohai. Making Helz scum in that case.

This has been on my mind. I was not told my action failed either night. I figured D2 that some form of redirect/witch/control/movement had to happen for my action to fail which WF and Mikal fit the bill for.

Positionally I am also confused why both would openly reveal as that given its the core issue for the kill to begin with. My target tonight survived but obviously I was not on Banana. Really did not expect that kill.

Hold the phone, weren't you 1x?

If bus driver:

-Shining scum

-Bullish possibly at mech odds with Helz

If no bus driver:

-Shining town

-Whiteflame at mech odds with Mikal

Regardless: likely 2 scum slots with interference abilities, possible strongman

If strongman: Scum can cover for Helz, protect Shining from investigatives/ implicate Lunatic in investigations w/ bus drive, and mess with Bullish

Hmmm. That actually does cover for everything.

If strongman: Scum can cover for Helz, protect Shining from investigatives/ implicate Lunatic in investigations w/ bus drive, and mess with Bullish

Hmmm. That actually does cover for everything.

No it doesn’t. I forgot about Whiteflame. His vanillized status is unaccounted for.

whatever the combination of actions is, there’s not enough room for all of this

lol what if the theme split is just magnets

Possible scum actions:

-Redirect

-Rolestop

-Bus drive

-Vanillize

-strongman

-ninja

-deflector

-Strongman/ninja

-two of (deflect/rolestop/redirect/bus drive/vanillize)

I highly doubt three of those last five could’ve been used at the same time by scum last night. This feels like a safe bet. 20 possible combinations.

I can just brute force my way through every scenario and see who’s implicated and who’s not