Periodic Table of Elements Mafia - DP4

Could have moved bullish but I didn't think he would ve carrying the nk

So rather lock in a read. Off chance the cc was valid the person carrying it would be the person no one expected.

whiteflame wrote:

Thoth wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

So it's been completely inactive all previous nights?

Yes

Could it have been activated previously?

No

I'm going to take a break from analyzing this because I'd rather not surmise what your role is if we're not seeking a full claim yet. Suffice it to say that you'll almost certainly be pushed to claim during this DP.

On second thought, he may not have to. The lynch is between Mikal and Bullish today, obviously.

Mikal wrote:

No. Me moving anyone is not helpful

Did not know what thoth was

Moving rex hurt us

Moving helz hurt us

Did not know what magic did

I hinted I was going to casey to see what they would claim to see if I could bait a result from her

2 options

One - waive

Two - move a vanilla ad a safety play

Townreading you doesn't mean im still not going tk be cautious. It confirms you are not doing a kill and doesn't mess with actions

I can't say I get this logic. Again: you redirected the person who you had the most reason to behaviorally townread to a target you were actively sussing, knowing that it was very likely I was telling the truth and would do nothing. It's a very convenient excuse for not having any confirmation of your role, period.

So moving in a way at all that could harm town is a better choice than waiving or targeting someone who cant move to not accept actions when there has already been a cluster fuck of analysis about misdirection?

Figure anything i do is bad and harms us cus 3 people were still not claimed.

Mag1cman wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

Thoth wrote:

First, this will require us to take a closer look at Helz. I was not the only one who was reading him as town in part because he was the only claimed protective role. Now we have another.

God forbid that a thirteen-player game have two protectives.

This is so frustrating, dude. The reason why Helz got a mechanical townread from several of us was because he was the sole claimed protective role. I'm not arguing that it's impossible to have multiple protective roles. I'm saying that it matters that there are two because it's not a given that the one claimed protective role is here for balance.

Well, what did you want me to say? "I'm a protective guys, so don't townread Helz too quick!" Yeah what a great plan.

Yes it's true that two protectives aren't guaranteed. But he worked well with a DP1 theory I had, and had dropped out of my focus (what little there was) for the most part after that.

I didn't say you should have outed your protection role, I said we should be reconsidering Helz now. I'm not chastising you for refusing to out earlier. It is nearly guaranteed that one of you exists. It is possible that both of you do. That difference is what I'm considering now.

And have a poe but no idea what potential roles they have yada yada.

Mag1cman wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

Thoth wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

So it's been completely inactive all previous nights?

Yes

Could it have been activated previously?

No

I'm going to take a break from analyzing this because I'd rather not surmise what your role is if we're not seeking a full claim yet. Suffice it to say that you'll almost certainly be pushed to claim during this DP.

On second thought, he may not have to. The lynch is between Mikal and Bullish today, obviously.

It's a 50-50 shot, so I do get why they would be the focus this time around, though if we're even able to limit the other pool by one person, that changes to a 66-33 shot. Not sure if I want Thoth's claim to try and manage that, but I'm considering it.

Mikal wrote:

So moving in a way at all that could harm town is a better choice than waiving or targeting someone who cant move to not accept actions when there has already been a cluster fuck of analysis about misdirection?

Figure anything i do is bad and harms us cus 3 people were still not claimed.

I'm pointing out that you have no mechanical support for your claim at all and that that's a problem. If your point is that another action could have been actively anti-town, fine, that doesn't change the reality that all I have on you - all anyone has on you - is a behavioral read.

Yall are a bunch of actual tards

Bullish wrote:

Yall are a bunch of actual tards

Big help.

My actions:

NP1 - targeted NP1 whiteflame, affirmative on motion

NP2 - targeted NP1 magic, affirmative on motion

NP3 - targeted NP2 whiteflame, negative on motion

I get that but let's say i wanted to hit magic cus I thought he was sus and out of poe. I could move him but let's say he is telling the truth and the doctor. I've then moved the doctor to a bad place.

To many people had not claimed and yes unfortunately its not optimal to make assumptions.

Vs I target you and its basically waiving. And on the off chance bullish just died and I was wrong about you the game was solved.

I largely expected nothing to happen but waiving was my choice. It was just waiving while adding go my town read of you

whiteflame wrote:

Bullish wrote:

Yall are a bunch of actual tards

Big help.

Much bigger help than you've been this whole game

You and me against the world

VTL: Mikal

casey had it coming. She was committing willful suicide by favoring to lynch me before mikal.

Bullish wrote:

My actions:

NP1 - targeted NP1 whiteflame, affirmative on motion

NP2 - targeted NP1 magic, affirmative on motion

NP3 - targeted NP2 whiteflame, negative on motion

Much bigger help than you've been this whole game

Yes, because double tapping me with your role was such a big help. If you're here to just be a dick about it, then all you're doing is making this actively harder.

Mikal wrote:

I get that but let's say i wanted to hit magic cus I thought he was sus and out of poe. I could move him but let's say he is telling the truth and the doctor. I've then moved the doctor to a bad place.

To many people had not claimed and yes unfortunately its not optimal to make assumptions.

Vs I target you and its basically waiving. And on the off chance bullish just died and I was wrong about you the game was solved.

I largely expected nothing to happen but waiving was my choice. It was just waiving while adding go my town read of you

I'll leave it at I'm skeptical for now. I'd like to hear more thoughts about this choice and get more people posting in here, particularly Shining.

Anyone even considering lynching me over mikal today deserves to lose. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I've laid out basic motivation analysis, claims analysis, utility analysis, NK analysis, mikal has been scum clear as day since DP2.

Yes the whine and complain all game because he cant push mislynch.

Golden.

This should have been resolved yesterday but instead here we are.

That's fair but if you can point out a use that potentially didnt fuck us or engage with a possible bus driver. Im all ears. Just saying in my head. The safest play was to not fuck with results as it would just make dps convoluted like it was after np1

whiteflame wrote:

Bullish wrote:

My actions:

NP1 - targeted NP1 whiteflame, affirmative on motion

NP2 - targeted NP1 magic, affirmative on motion

NP3 - targeted NP2 whiteflame, negative on motion

Much bigger help than you've been this whole game

Yes, because double tapping me with your role was such a big help. If you're here to just be a dick about it, then all you're doing is making this actively harder.

It semi clears you dumbass, it means you didn't use lightning rod (thus likely actually vanillarized), didn't do the NK, and didn't visit casey.

Mag1cman wrote:

Night action failed last night; I tried to save Rex by making him suffer for another DP. I’m Hydrogen, the Doctor.

The tldr justification is that hydrogen is simple and therefore allows complexity to emerge from its simplicity as bonds with just about everything else, therefore being the element Pie chose to credit with being necessary for life.

I do not see this as possible. I was 2 shot and I got Vanalized last night. Part of why I did not want to confirm how many charges I had was because I had hoped to waste a kill or one of those shots.

For your action to fail it would require some other sort of reason. I also question why you did not poke or suspect me at some point given you should have felt you were a CC to me this entire time.

Im starting to strongly see Mag1c as scum with this claim.

Exactly why allowing bullish to not say what he did yesterday is awful. Literally called a strategic retcon yesterday

Can't say much cus mine is equally not conformable but at least my thought process makes sense lmao.

Bullish wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

Bullish wrote:

My actions:

NP1 - targeted NP1 whiteflame, affirmative on motion

NP2 - targeted NP1 magic, affirmative on motion

NP3 - targeted NP2 whiteflame, negative on motion

Much bigger help than you've been this whole game

Yes, because double tapping me with your role was such a big help. If you're here to just be a dick about it, then all you're doing is making this actively harder.

It semi clears you dumbass, it means you didn't use lightning rod (thus likely actually vanillarized), didn't do the NK, and didn't visit casey.

Considering all the options you had last NP, I can't say I see as much value in the decision as you do, but whatever.

Mikal wrote:

That's fair but if you can point out a use that potentially didnt fuck us or engage with a possible bus driver. Im all ears. Just saying in my head. The safest play was to not fuck with results as it would just make dps convoluted like it was after np1

The problem is that it's safe either way. It avoids questions about why you wouldn't use your night action to confirm yourself as well.

The only reason I'm still trying this game is because technically, the majority of town used their brain to try to win the game. Myself, lunatic, banana, ref, and magic probably all would have voted mikal on DP2. That's 5 out of 8 town at the time.

Helz wrote:

Mag1cman wrote:

Night action failed last night; I tried to save Rex by making him suffer for another DP. I’m Hydrogen, the Doctor.

The tldr justification is that hydrogen is simple and therefore allows complexity to emerge from its simplicity as bonds with just about everything else, therefore being the element Pie chose to credit with being necessary for life.

I do not see this as possible. I was 2 shot and I got Vanalized last night. Part of why I did not want to confirm how many charges I had was because I had hoped to waste a kill or one of those shots.

For your action to fail it would require some other sort of reason. I also question why you did not poke or suspect me at some point given you should have felt you were a CC to me this entire time.

Im starting to strongly see Mag1c as scum with this claim.

Did you ever full claim? Especially if you are Vanillaized, there's no reason not to out your entire claim at this point.

I get it im just saying. Would rather be safe than pick a bad choice and potentially make dp2 happen again.

Not sure what else to say than to me not guessing and potentially making a wrong choice was the correct play. It also just helps me lock you completely

Poe is everything if that makes sense. But yeah I dont regret potentially not making a choice that harms us

whiteflame wrote:

Mag1cman wrote:

Night action failed last night; I tried to save Rex by making him suffer for another DP. I’m Hydrogen, the Doctor.

The tldr justification is that hydrogen is simple and therefore allows complexity to emerge from its simplicity as bonds with just about everything else, therefore being the element Pie chose to credit with being necessary for life.

NP1 target was Bullish

NP2 I went for Helz

NP3 I went for Rex

So... a few thoughts.

First, this will require us to take a closer look at Helz. I was not the only one who was reading him as town in part because he was the only claimed protective role. Now we have another.

Two protectives aren't impossible, we've all made each other aware of that, but he will be looked at today, trust me.

Second, you're going to need to be clear about your reason for choosing those 3 targets. Wanting to make Rex suffer through another DP isn't really enough from where I'm sitting, dude was Vanillaized and he wasn't the only widely townread player in the game

Sure.

NP1 (Bullish): Bullish had softed in DP1, and I called it out as obvious PR behavior. I was reading him as a PR worth protecting, so I protected him.

NP2 (Helz): Once Bullish was in Casey's results, I knew he wasn't going to be the NK any time soon. I had two new contenders for a new target: Helz and Rex. Both had claimed powerful roles that could be good for town. I was townreading Rex, and Helz I wasn't sure on. But Kohai died last DP. That meant scum was not going for the obvious NK, which would've been Bullish. And Rex felt like the next obvious kill. While Helz's role was powerful and can stop an NK on Rex (assuming he's town), it can be redirected, or messed with in another way. Redirection-type roles were another factor into my decision. Scum had the potential to use Rex's role against town by messing with it if Helz didn't target there. And while they could redirect Helz + kill Rex, it could fall victim to a protective if they didn't have a strongman. Also if they had a ninja (which I think is a given given Rex's flip and Bullish's role), it's less reason to be afraid of the tracker. But Helz's role could be a real threat to them later. So there were numerous possibilities and pieces of evidence to indicate Helz was more likely to be the night kill than Rex. Yes, if Helz is scum it's a waste, but there was no player outside of Rex and Bullish who I confidently felt was town, and I had already resolved not to protect either. Combine all those factors, and I decided to predict that scum wanted to go for a secondary target outside of the typical targeting of the investigatives, would predict the doctor would go for Rex, and would therefore go for someone else (most likely Helz), while having the tools to deal with Rex without killing him.

NP3 (Rex): With Banana dead, it became apparent they were now targeting people who would vote Mikal along with Bullish. So I that's when I went to protect Rex.

Third, I'm a little wary of that justification. Lots of elements bond with other elements. Hell, arguably the king of bonding other elements is Carbon, which was Banana's character, since it can form four separate bonds to Hydrogen's only one. It's obviously essential for life, but it's hardly alone in that as well.

Sure, but having only one bond means that it's pretty stable once bonded to something. It's the cornerstone of the chemical system, especially with how it relates to life. Depending on what you believe in the origin of the universe, it was the first element created. All good reasons to give it the most credit.