Or if there is some specific thing thats not weird semantics on what a 'full claim is' when I clearly have voiced I thought I said my flavor and gave it no more thought so I must be lying about a full claim. This is just silly. And there is no reason as scum I would do so
Thoth wrote:
whiteflame wrote:
Then he posted repeatedly in here that he already had full claimed, despite never having done so.
Maybe he has a different idea of what full-claiming means than you do.
He's been through enough games with us at this point to know. I don't buy this.
And he specifically called his role Rolestopper despite now saying that the role doesn't have a name. Do I have that correct?
He did not use the term Rolestopper in our chat. He called it Vaporizer based on the justification, but said that name was not used in his DM, nor was Rolestopper. He then said that he was given a flavor name, which I figure means his role name (like Doctor, Tracker) but did not want to say it because of his self-imposed challenge. Why would he call it Vaporizer and bring up his justification but then decline to give his role's name? Your guess is as good as mine.
So you grabbed the term Rolestopper, and he used the term Vaporizer, which he now claims he said was just "I vaporize." Great, lovely. Glad after spending the whole DP trying to square away basic information we finally have some accurate information about his claim from your chat.
whiteflame wrote:
So you grabbed the term Rolestopper, and he used the term Vaporizer
I did ask him if he was Rolestopper and he confirmed that he thought that is what his role is normally called on here.
Forum signatures are bullshit. Nobody wants to waste their time and bandwidth reading something they have read 29,998,559,671,349 times before.
Thoth wrote:
whiteflame wrote:
You're in here now saying that he never claimed. So it's somehow "kinda rude to claim" that he'd never stated his character in chat and had actively given you his role by name. Seriously?
Nani? Helz full-claimed his role and justification to me. I was under the impression that he had probably claimed his element in public earlier and did not check. That's why I said earlier this DP that Helz had full-claimed to me.
He refused to claim his character. He told you his role. We repeatedly pointed to the lack of a character claim from him multiple times in this DP. You refused to convey the specific information on how he named that role, which was literally the only missing piece, for half the day because "it's rude." It's frustrating, man.
Someone name a single major mafia outlet that its normal for flavor to be AI. Anyone. I want to hear it.
2+2, Sc2, ToS, FoL, MU, Syndicate, MS, ToL, and all the rest. Show me a single site where what this site does is 'normal'
Im not saying it should change but its weird to act like "Oh you said it was a full claim but did not include flavor" is an issue before even considering that I absolutely did think I had included that info and have zero reason to lie about it
whiteflame wrote:
He refused to claim his character. He told you his role. We repeatedly pointed to the lack of a character claim from him multiple times in this DP. You refused to convey the specific information on how he named that role, which was literally the only missing piece, for half the day because "it's rude." It's frustrating, man.
How did I refuse? I was working. Literally got a badass architect for a construction project and had a board meeting for my motorcycle shop and went to the American Legion and structured the contract for rental of a portion of the building. What part of that was a refusal?
Helz wrote:
WF. Get to your point. You are acting like I have not been up front with things and I have been nothing but honest. Please do not ruin this for the town. Its as simple as Shining/Bullish
I made my point. I've now linked to you several times the specific point about mechanics that has been the major reason I've sussed you this DP, and I still don't see a response. I can't tell if you've just missed it every single time or you're refusing to answer it, but here we are, in the same position with you defending yourself on points that just upset me behaviorally. If you can't find it, check back, it's not hard. If you found it and you just refuse to answer for some reason, give that reason. Otherwise, we're done here.
The way this site is cool with angle shooting if I was a lesser man I would post contracts and designs. I really hate hearing that I refused anything though and will cut back to "Point to a single thing I have not answered." The only thing I have refused is to unpack the details of my flavor which I want nothing to do with and a town was mod killed over.
You want to screw around with flavor and think there is something to the pools go for it. Im not touching that with a 10 foot pole
Helz wrote:
whiteflame wrote:
He refused to claim his character. He told you his role. We repeatedly pointed to the lack of a character claim from him multiple times in this DP. You refused to convey the specific information on how he named that role, which was literally the only missing piece, for half the day because "it's rude." It's frustrating, man.
How did I refuse? I was working. Literally got a badass architect for a construction project and had a board meeting for my motorcycle shop and went to the American Legion and structured the contract for rental of a portion of the building. What part of that was a refusal?
I'm just done with this, dude. Again, not even a major reason for my sussing you. The way you set these challenges for yourself is your own business, I just don't get how you could continue to believe that you'd claimed Nitrogen at any point in this game before this DP. That's baffling because it's objectively wrong. It's not a read, but it's baffling.
whiteflame wrote:
Helz wrote:
WF. Get to your point. You are acting like I have not been up front with things and I have been nothing but honest. Please do not ruin this for the town. Its as simple as Shining/Bullish
I made my point. I've now linked to you several times the specific point about mechanics that has been the major reason I've sussed you this DP, and I still don't see a response. I can't tell if you've just missed it every single time or you're refusing to answer it, but here we are, in the same position with you defending yourself on points that just upset me behaviorally. If you can't find it, check back, it's not hard. If you found it and you just refuse to answer for some reason, give that reason. Otherwise, we're done here.
Yeah. About clear as mud. You can not clearly say what you are even asking and acting like its on me that your not getting a clear answer. Kill me and tank the game for town. Its simply Bullish/Shining. There is nothing complicated about this situation. Pick the order they go in if you want but you are going to loose this game for us.
Helz wrote:
The way this site is cool with angle shooting if I was a lesser man I would post contracts and designs. I really hate hearing that I refused anything though and will cut back to "Point to a single thing I have not answered." The only thing I have refused is to unpack the details of my flavor which I want nothing to do with and a town was mod killed over.
You want to screw around with flavor and think there is something to the pools go for it. Im not touching that with a 10 foot pole
Again, and I'm going to repeat this as many times as it takes, I AM NOT SUSSING YOU BASED ON FLAVOR. I'm not angleshooting, either. But I sure as hell am going to point to the odd fact that the person who kept defending themselves over the last two DPs as "I full claimed already" when I asked about your character hadn't posted it. That's weird. It's not the main reason I'm sussing you, but I can't ignore it, either. It gave you a lot of leeway to wait until everyone had already posted their character to post yours. That's it, end of story. If it upsets you for me to point it out, then so be it, but I can't help how I see it.
Helz wrote:
whiteflame wrote:
Helz wrote:
WF. Get to your point. You are acting like I have not been up front with things and I have been nothing but honest. Please do not ruin this for the town. Its as simple as Shining/Bullish
I made my point. I've now linked to you several times the specific point about mechanics that has been the major reason I've sussed you this DP, and I still don't see a response. I can't tell if you've just missed it every single time or you're refusing to answer it, but here we are, in the same position with you defending yourself on points that just upset me behaviorally. If you can't find it, check back, it's not hard. If you found it and you just refuse to answer for some reason, give that reason. Otherwise, we're done here.
Yeah. About clear as mud. You can not clearly say what you are even asking and acting like its on me that your not getting a clear answer. Kill me and tank the game for town. Its simply Bullish/Shining. There is nothing complicated about this situation. Pick the order they go in if you want but you are going to loose this game for us.
Just. Fucking. Read. And. Respond. To. Post. #89. That's all I'm asking, that's all I want.
Go ahead and bus Helz bro, if you do this we're more likely to consider lynching Thoth tomorrow.
whiteflame wrote:
Helz wrote:
The way this site is cool with angle shooting if I was a lesser man I would post contracts and designs. I really hate hearing that I refused anything though and will cut back to "Point to a single thing I have not answered." The only thing I have refused is to unpack the details of my flavor which I want nothing to do with and a town was mod killed over.
You want to screw around with flavor and think there is something to the pools go for it. Im not touching that with a 10 foot pole
Again, and I'm going to repeat this as many times as it takes, I AM NOT SUSSING YOU BASED ON FLAVOR. I'm not angleshooting, either. But I sure as hell am going to point to the odd fact that the person who kept defending themselves over the last two DPs as "I full claimed already" when I asked about your character hadn't posted it. That's weird. It's not the main reason I'm sussing you, but I can't ignore it, either. It gave you a lot of leeway to wait until everyone had already posted their character to post yours. That's it, end of story. If it upsets you for me to point it out, then so be it, but I can't help how I see it.
And I can say for the 30th time that I thought I had claimed my flavor and I disregard flavor and that its super unusual for flavor to even slightly matter in the first place to the point when 99% of mafia communities say "Have you full claimed" they are referring to all the details of your role. Go out into the world and play a game not on this site and just try to find a game where flavor is some big AI issue normally.
I'm just gonna say this one more time. If you said to me in a neighbor chat that you joint win with scum, and then asked me to NK you, I would treat that as no different than if someone straight up asked me if I was scum. You are not going deep enough with the WIFOM.
whiteflame wrote:
Helz wrote:
whiteflame wrote:
Helz wrote:
WF. Get to your point. You are acting like I have not been up front with things and I have been nothing but honest. Please do not ruin this for the town. Its as simple as Shining/Bullish
I made my point. I've now linked to you several times the specific point about mechanics that has been the major reason I've sussed you this DP, and I still don't see a response. I can't tell if you've just missed it every single time or you're refusing to answer it, but here we are, in the same position with you defending yourself on points that just upset me behaviorally. If you can't find it, check back, it's not hard. If you found it and you just refuse to answer for some reason, give that reason. Otherwise, we're done here.
Yeah. About clear as mud. You can not clearly say what you are even asking and acting like its on me that your not getting a clear answer. Kill me and tank the game for town. Its simply Bullish/Shining. There is nothing complicated about this situation. Pick the order they go in if you want but you are going to loose this game for us.
Just. Fucking. Read. And. Respond. To. Post. #89. That's all I'm asking, that's all I want.
Then stop citing a post thats citing a post thats asking vague questions and just ask a fucking question. What is so hard about that?
I already answered what I think happened in N1. I already answered your confusion about my conversation with Thoth and I already claimed every single possible detail about my role and what my flavor is. What are you even asking me?
Wake up and stop quoting a thing that quotes a thing that rambles about vague shit thats already been covered and just ask a simple question.
Just the fact that Helz did not report your claim to the thread is evidence that he did not take it seriously.
Bullish wrote:
I'm just gonna say this one more time. If you said to me in a neighbor chat that you joint win with scum, and then asked me to NK you, I would treat that as no different than if someone straight up asked me if I was scum. You are not going deep enough with the WIFOM.
Nice shade. It was more complicated than that and in a moment where we were interacting in a matter of seconds
Bullish wrote:
Just the fact that Helz did not report your claim to the thread is evidence that he did not take it seriously.
Nice shade. Or maybe the fact I got my role removed after he knew I was only a 2x and removing my role would do nothing at all made me hard clear him.
Can people not see what obvious scum this dude is?
I'm not gonna respond to a bunch of non-sequiturs. My man is literally doing the chewbacca defense.
VTL: Helz
Bullish wrote:
I'm not gonna respond to a bunch of non-sequiturs. My man is literally doing the chewbacca defense.
Great case. Its not like I am making very focused well reasoned points as I have had to shove you this entire game to give any reasoning at all.
Then stop citing a post thats citing a post thats asking vague questions and just ask a fucking question. What is so hard about that?
I already answered what I think happened in N1. I already answered your confusion about my conversation with Thoth and I already claimed every single possible detail about my role and what my flavor is. What are you even asking me?
Wake up and stop quoting a thing that quotes a thing that rambles about vague shit thats already been covered and just ask a simple question.
I'm just going to stop responding on the issue of claiming your character. I've said my piece on it. If you find that frustrating, I sincerely don't care anymore.
As for this, if your responses so far are truly the extent of how you're going to respond - with absolutely no mechanical analysis or details on how you think things went down for at least that NP1 night action to play out the way it did - then yeah, we're done here. You can call it vague, you can chew me out for repeating the point that you just haven't responded to over and over, but it's a sticking point for me. So I'll lay it out one more time with specific questions, and then I'm calling it a night. You'll have all the time you want to address them, and depending on the answers, I'll vote tomorrow morning.
Based on what you said, you targeted Kohai NP1. Kohai died anyway. Your role, the Vaporizer or whatever you took to calling it (I seriously don't give a fuck anymore), is an all-encompassing absolute block, so Kohai could not possibly have been the target of a night action, including an NK. You said yourself it should have neutralized all night actions that targeted him. You then pointed to the possibility of a Redirector or other movement of the target as a viable explanation.
So, questions:
That's enough for me tonight. Helz, if you feel like actually addressing these, great. I'm going to get some sleep and just lay off of this for a while.
whiteflame wrote:
Then stop citing a post thats citing a post thats asking vague questions and just ask a fucking question. What is so hard about that?
I already answered what I think happened in N1. I already answered your confusion about my conversation with Thoth and I already claimed every single possible detail about my role and what my flavor is. What are you even asking me?
Wake up and stop quoting a thing that quotes a thing that rambles about vague shit thats already been covered and just ask a simple question.
I'm just going to stop responding on the issue of claiming your character. I've said my piece on it. If you find that frustrating, I sincerely don't care anymore.
As for this, if your responses so far are truly the extent of how you're going to respond - with absolutely no mechanical analysis or details on how you think things went down for at least that NP1 night action to play out the way it did - then yeah, we're done here. You can call it vague, you can chew me out for repeating the point that you just haven't responded to over and over, but it's a sticking point for me. So I'll lay it out one more time with specific questions, and then I'm calling it a night. You'll have all the time you want to address them, and depending on the answers, I'll vote tomorrow morning.
Based on what you said, you targeted Kohai NP1. Kohai died anyway. Your role, the Vaporizer or whatever you took to calling it (I seriously don't give a fuck anymore), is an all-encompassing absolute block, so Kohai could not possibly have been the target of a night action, including an NK. You said yourself it should have neutralized all night actions that targeted him. You then pointed to the possibility of a Redirector or other movement of the target as a viable explanation.
So, questions:
For 1 I have not considered. I figured the absolute reason my action failed to protect was because of Mikal. Rex did have the result of you visiting Shining which is a solid question I do not have an answer to.
For 2 I town read you from analysis. It grew to mech confirmation over time but at the time I was town reading you I had unpacked the mech as far as I could and drew the conclusion that there is not information to do much with as I asked targeted questions and people chased their tail on the subject.
Everyone was focused on the redirective CC so I focused on the investigative CC. You will notice if we play together more I generally poke at what I feel is useful. If everyone is focused on 1 detail I start hunting for something others are missing given scum like to control the detail being focused on.
whiteflame wrote:
That's enough for me tonight. Helz, if you feel like actually addressing these, great. I'm going to get some sleep and just lay off of this for a while.
Take care. Sorry if things got abrasive.
I found this regarding Vaporizer.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Vaporizer
VTL: Helz
Anyway, Helz is scum etc etc. Vaporizer is a hard scum role. Did Thoth not sus that at all?
