Periodic Table of Elements Mafia - DP5

Last thing I'm going to say tonight and it has nothing to do with Helz, but I'm posting it in case the DP ends overnight somehow and I don't survive the NP, which I'd say is plausible.

I keep coming back to my being Redirected to Shining in NP1. Mikal targeted me and Shining with the Redirector. I can believe my role was Redirected onto either a town or scum Shining, but we don't know the reason. The weird part is the Vanillaizer. Someone targeted either me or Shining with it. I can't make sense of why scum would both Redirect and Vanillaize me in the same night. Maybe scum would just be that nervous about my role that they would only want a modified action on the first night and no action beyond that, but I can't say I buy into that. So that leads me to the conclusion that Shining got targeted by the Vanillaizer. If that's true, he's town.

Please, at least consider this DP6 if I'm not here.

Helz wrote:

whiteflame wrote:

That's enough for me tonight. Helz, if you feel like actually addressing these, great. I'm going to get some sleep and just lay off of this for a while.

Take care. Sorry if things got abrasive.

It happens. Just a game, we move on.

Automated Vote Count

This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.

Helz (2/3): Bullish (p#142), Shining (p#149)

Bullish (1/3): Helz (p#87)

Not Voting (2): Thoth, whiteflame

With 5 players alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day phase ends in 1 day, 7 hours.

Helz wrote:

1. Do you think scum have a second redirection role? We already know who Mikal used his night action on NP1 (me and Shining), so it cannot have been him. That, or do you have another explanation for how your role could have failed to protect Kohai NP1? Give me some idea of what you think the layout for scum night actions were here.
2. Why did you townread me after I claimed a different target than the one Rex confirmed? Even if you believe that there was another redirection role in play on the scum team (and you'd kind of have to given that Mikal had claimed to use his Magnet a set of targets that didn't include you or Kohai), I can't imagine just accepting the possibility of 3 redirection roles in this game at face value. You didn't accept that with investigatives.

For 1 I have not considered. I figured the absolute reason my action failed to protect was because of Mikal. Rex did have the result of you visiting Shining which is a solid question I do not have an answer to.

For 2 I town read you from analysis. It grew to mech confirmation over time but at the time I was town reading you I had unpacked the mech as far as I could and drew the conclusion that there is not information to do much with as I asked targeted questions and people chased their tail on the subject.

Everyone was focused on the redirective CC so I focused on the investigative CC. You will notice if we play together more I generally poke at what I feel is useful. If everyone is focused on 1 detail I start hunting for something others are missing given scum like to control the detail being focused on.

Well, I appreciate the responses, but yeah, the lack of explanation for the first one is something I can't ignore and your willingness to so strongly townread me when you're actively chewing out Bullish for his strong takes doesn't help. I get having a strong behavioral read, but I don't get just setting aside mechanics that don't fit into it. It's the same reason anyone rightfully expected me to be at least a little sus of Mikal even if I thought he was behaviorally town.

Similarly, the inconsistency between your perception of three investigatives and three redirective roles gives me pause. I get focusing on things that you perceive as useful information, but especially as the game developed, I don't understand how you could set this aside since, if I was you, I'd have remained pretty focused on why my role failed to protect the person I targeted.

Maybe that's just me and I shouldn't be imposing my view on you, but our individual night actions are the only things we know for certain. To me, it's weird not to focus on them. That's why I'm bringing up events from NP1 where I got the only night action I ever had off.

I'll post a vote before lunch, but I'll give you a chance to respond.

New day and I still do not know what your on about.

Yeah, I have no idea why my action would have failed outside of the reasoning I gave. I am not the host with god level knowledge of what happened. Your asking me as if you think I know and I gave you the best assumption I have.

I have very strong reasoning I have very clearly explained for my read on you. Bullish gave the most vague reasoning while just flatly begging people to vote and insisting he was absolutely certain. That comparison is not good. The reason I question Bullish is between the PoE and their absolutely out of place read.

For mech I do not really see Hider as much of a redirector. I see 2 redirectives. And I do not see having a lot of them as any sort of AI. Played a game once with 8 bus drivers. However too much invest is absolutely game breaking which is why I was critical of it. The same as I was critical about town having even just 2 town protectives. Its less about the amount and more about what fits from my experience.

If your mind is set there is no point in waiting. We are at Lylo and you are about to loose the game with your vote. Just do it if your gona do it or wise up and look at what I am saying to you.

I guess we just loose as people refuse to think. Both of the scum are on me right now. Thats literally the scum team. And town just shut their brain off and is marching right off that cliff.

While we're at it, thoughts on the theme split.

So Fluorine has a number of distinctive properties that would set it apart from everything else that has been claimed so far. I figure it signifies that we're dealing with one of three possible groups for scum:

Halogens - This is the most straightforward, it's just the entirety of the second to last column on the right of the table. You have Chlorine, Bromine, Iodine, Astatine and Tennessine in that group.

Extremely Reactive - Fluorine blows every other element out of the water in this department, but there are a lot of reactive metals. Francium, Rubidium, Sodium, and Potassium are also extremely reactive. The key one in this group that stands out? Cesium. It's the most reactive metal.

Electronegativity - Another department where Fluorine excels, this includes a very different set of elements. On the Pauling scale, in order, the top 4 are: Fluorine, Oxygen, Chlorine and... Nitrogen.

If I was a betting man, I'd bet on one of these 3 being the actual split between scum and town. One implicates Bullish, one implicates Helz, and the last suggests that all 3 character claims have been faked (since Mikal used Cobalt). I can't say I've got any strong reason to buy one over the other beyond just seeing Helz as scum for other reasons, but they could have faked their claim so that's not the strongest reason to push the electronegativity as theme split hypothesis.

Helz wrote:

New day and I still do not know what your on about.

Yeah, I have no idea why my action would have failed outside of the reasoning I gave. I am not the host with god level knowledge of what happened. Your asking me as if you think I know and I gave you the best assumption I have.

You outright said you have no idea how your role could have failed NP1. Your one explanation for how that would be possible you have acknowledged did not happen. I've asked for another, and your response was a shrug.

I have very strong reasoning I have very clearly explained for my read on you. Bullish gave the most vague reasoning while just flatly begging people to vote and insisting he was absolutely certain. That comparison is not good. The reason I question Bullish is between the PoE and their absolutely out of place read.

We've talked about Bullish. I'm not dismissing him.

For mech I do not really see Hider as much of a redirector. I see 2 redirectives. And I do not see having a lot of them as any sort of AI. Played a game once with 8 bus drivers. However too much invest is absolutely game breaking which is why I was critical of it. The same as I was critical about town having even just 2 town protectives. Its less about the amount and more about what fits from my experience.

So you think scum have 2 redirective roles and that Mikal personally outed that such a role is in this game to me in private chat and then publicly? I'll give you that that is the only explanation that can make sense of both your role failing and my being Redirected to Shining, but you're asking me to assume that 2 out of 3 of the scum in this game have a powerful redirection role. Forgive me if I find that hard to believe.

I guess we just loose as people refuse to think. Both of the scum are on me right now. Thats literally the scum team. And town just shut their brain off and is marching right off that cliff.

This is the part that bothers me the most, dude. I've been writing out a lot of thoughts about this game and been taking my time to consider everything thoroughly. I even posted something before I went to bed last night on Shining, which has been itching at my brain since DP2. I get if you're frustrated that I'm not considering your specific perspective as much as you'd like, but stop pretending that I'm not trying to logic this out.

Anyway, I vote at 11 AM EST. I'll consider anything posted before that time, but I'm not doing this back-and-forth all morning, so unless it's something new for me to address, I won't be responding further.

You keep asking me for an explanation I do not have. I am not spoiled and I am not the host who can explain why what happened. I know I am town and I am not spoiled to know what happened and why. There is no reason at all for me to claim D2 that the person died and I was protecting them if I was scum. Just think about that. Why on earth as scum would I even reveal that info? What possible sense does that make? Much less doing so before everyone else had claimed their actions.

If I was scum at the very least the logical play would be for me to sit on my hands and not claim that result right off the bat until I knew I had to. There is no reason for me to make such a play as it just looks bad unless I simply am town and was honestly giving a critical piece of mechanical information to the town.

Next time you go to your local church demand that the preacher explain gods reasoning for why your grandma died. If he can not explain it declare him evil. Because he does not have knowledge he can not possibly have he must be guilty!

Helz wrote:

You keep asking me for an explanation I do not have. I am not spoiled and I am not the host who can explain why what happened. I know I am town and I am not spoiled to know what happened and why. There is no reason at all for me to claim D2 that the person died and I was protecting them if I was scum. Just think about that. Why on earth as scum would I even reveal that info? What possible sense does that make? Much less doing so before everyone else had claimed their actions.

If I was scum at the very least the logical play would be for me to sit on my hands and not claim that result right off the bat until I knew I had to. There is no reason for me to make such a play as it just looks bad unless I simply am town and was honestly giving a critical piece of mechanical information to the town.

Yep, that certainly is some WIFOM. I've already talked about this.

Next time you go to your local church demand that the preacher explain gods reasoning for why your grandma died. If he can not explain it declare him evil. Because he does not have knowledge he can not possibly have he must be guilty!

You know, whether you're town or scum, the main problem I have with your responses is how quick you are to strawman or dismiss them as illogical. I don't care if you disagree with the point since, obviously, you have incentive to do so. But if your goal is to win me over to your argument, this isn't how you do it.

Also, Jewish. Not planning to go to church anytime soon.

Automated Vote Count

This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.

Helz (2/3): Bullish (p#142), Shining (p#149)

Bullish (1/3): Helz (p#87)

Not Voting (2): Thoth, whiteflame

With 5 players alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day phase ends in 23 hours.

Welp, nothing's changed my mind. If we lose, I'll take the L.

VTL: Helz

Automated Vote Count

This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.

Helz (3/3): Bullish (p#142), Shining (p#149), whiteflame (p#166)

Bullish (1/3): Helz (p#87)

Not Voting (1): Thoth

With 5 players alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day phase ends in 23 hours.

⚠️ Helz has reached the lynch threshold. Hammer appears to be p#166.

It’s fine. Just end the game. You want some information I can not possibly have and you have made up your mind. I can point all day to my behavior that screams I am town but you just ignore it. So just end the game if there is not only no clue min ground between us but no way to reach any

Common* the fuck did my phone make that clue min…

STOP POSTING

Helz was lynched. He was…GUILTY.

24 hours to submit night actions.