Originally Posted by wylted on 7/6/2026 at 7:24 PM (post #197)
Magic also is clearly not wanting to claim and I think in that spot as scum they would rush to claim.
It implies some sort of power role he wants to hide so maybe have a protective role on him
He already said he's the Doc.
Originally Posted by wylted on 7/6/2026 at 7:22 PM (post #196)
Lunatic essentially admitted to being a redirector. Mentioned the balance thing after Thoth claimed so immediately soft claimed it essentially when 1x bullet proof would be easier .
I but the theory that this is a role cop thing and he's like "fuck I guess we can't kill lunatic and steal stah claim"
So he does the second best thing
It's a very plausible thing.
It feels like whiteflame is scum every time I play with him though and I have a pang of guilt for sussing him
I can understand lynching me to confirm my role and result, but while I think the Role Cop argument has merit, it's banking a lot on my having a certain role and making a very specific choice with it.
As for feeling like I'm scum every game... I don't blame you. Got a lot of that going around.
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/6/2026 at 9:21 PM (post #204)
Originally Posted by wylted on 7/6/2026 at 5:22 PM (post #196)
Lunatic essentially admitted to being a redirector. Mentioned the balance thing after Thoth claimed so immediately soft claimed it essentially when 1x bullet proof would be easier .
I but the theory that this is a role cop thing and he's like "fuck I guess we can't kill lunatic and steal stah claim"
So he does the second best thing
It's a very plausible thing.
It feels like whiteflame is scum every time I play with him though and I have a pang of guilt for sussing him
I did not admit to being redirector. You are reading too much into that, the comment about balance was also made before whiteflame said his result on me.
You were getting pretty defensive about the plausibility of a Redirector being in the game, so I get why Wylted came away with that perspective.
Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 7/6/2026 at 9:46 PM (post #209)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/6/2026 at 9:21 PM (post #204)
Originally Posted by wylted on 7/6/2026 at 5:22 PM (post #196)
Lunatic essentially admitted to being a redirector. Mentioned the balance thing after Thoth claimed so immediately soft claimed it essentially when 1x bullet proof would be easier .
I but the theory that this is a role cop thing and he's like "fuck I guess we can't kill lunatic and steal stah claim"
So he does the second best thing
It's a very plausible thing.
It feels like whiteflame is scum every time I play with him though and I have a pang of guilt for sussing him
I did not admit to being redirector. You are reading too much into that, the comment about balance was also made before whiteflame said his result on me.
If you were BP you'd be trying to lynch Magic right now.
I'm not sure why a BP and Doctor being in the game seems off, particularly with a multi-shot Vig in play. If he ends up claiming BP, I'd be more surprised if that was the only protective role in play.
Automated Vote Count
This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.
whiteflame (2/5): RexFavilla (p#154), wylted (p#194)
Lunatic (1/5): Banana (p#78)
RexFavilla (1/5): ILikePie5 (p#200)
Not Voting (4): Lunatic (p#205), Mag1cman, whiteflame (p#184), Wryly
With 8 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day phase ends in 18 hours.
"Kohai, your entrance to the thread was legendary, you had a solve and a winning PoE right when you showed up, super impressive stuff, even more so considering it wasn't even your objective!!" - Zrein
I need everyone to name exactly one person who they would lynch right now, gun to your head
Sorely tempted to say Luna, but given that I have at least some role information to work from with him and he has no room to escape a claim between BP and Redirector, my attention is mainly on Wylted and Rex. More behavioral info is placing Wylted as my top scumread between them (I gave my reasons in my reads earlier), though the combination of Mago's absence before him (dude was almost entirely absent as scum in the Frieren game) leads me to prefer a claim from Rex right now. At least we have Wylted's character claim. So for now at least:
VTL Rex
VTL: RexFavilla
Forgot about the formatting. Also, tagging Rex.
Automated Vote Count
This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.
whiteflame (2/5): RexFavilla (p#154), wylted (p#194)
RexFavilla (2/5): ILikePie5 (p#200), whiteflame (p#220)
Lunatic (1/5): Banana (p#78)
Not Voting (3): Lunatic (p#205), Mag1cman, Wryly
With 8 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day phase ends in 17 hours.
"Kohai, your entrance to the thread was legendary, you had a solve and a winning PoE right when you showed up, super impressive stuff, even more so considering it wasn't even your objective!!" - Zrein
You can lynch me, I'm not claiming just because I replaced in. Going tor claims in this game is retarded anyway, it's completeky open ended. We already forced the doc to claim for literally no reason.
Automated Vote Count
This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.
whiteflame (2/5): RexFavilla (p#154), wylted (p#194)
RexFavilla (2/5): ILikePie5 (p#200), whiteflame (p#220)
Lunatic (1/5): Banana (p#78)
Not Voting (3): Lunatic (p#205), Mag1cman, Wryly
With 8 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day phase ends in 17 hours.
"Kohai, your entrance to the thread was legendary, you had a solve and a winning PoE right when you showed up, super impressive stuff, even more so considering it wasn't even your objective!!" - Zrein
Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/6/2026 at 10:48 PM (post #218)
I need everyone to name exactly one person who they would lynch right now, gun to your head
WF. This whole time I set up my criticism of him where if he really was town I feel like it would be natural for him to question why I was setting my poe up in a way that precluded him from being town and being genuinely sussing a town Luna redirector. I feel like if he were town that would ne the natural first response - why could town me not be suspicious of a town redirector luna? Instead he's been more lawyery then I'd like and it feels a bit unctuous.
Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 7/7/2026 at 12:01 AM (post #224)
Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/6/2026 at 10:48 PM (post #218)
I need everyone to name exactly one person who they would lynch right now, gun to your head
WF. This whole time I set up my criticism of him where if he really was town I feel like it would be natural for him to question why I was setting my poe up in a way that precluded him from being town and being genuinely sussing a town Luna redirector. I feel like if he were town that would ne the natural first response - why could town me not be suspicious of a town redirector luna? Instead he's been more lawyery then I'd like and it feels a bit unctuous.
You VTL'd me out of nowhere, said it was due to "bad vibes," then made a short post about how you thought it was 1v1 between me and Luna without much explanation on the why of it, saying you were going to post more later. I told you I'd wait for you to elaborate before responding, but you still haven't done it. If you want me to respond to your conclusions absent the reasoning you said you'd post, I'm fine doing it, but I was giving you time to write out your complete thoughts. I guess that's "unctuous."
I'm calling it here. I'd prefer to get your thoughts in full so I can respond early, whether you claim or not is secondary to understanding your thought process.
Automated Vote Count
This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.
whiteflame (2/5): RexFavilla (p#154), wylted (p#194)
RexFavilla (2/5): ILikePie5 (p#200), whiteflame (p#220)
Lunatic (1/5): Banana (p#78)
Not Voting (3): Lunatic (p#205), Mag1cman, Wryly
With 8 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day phase ends in 16 hours.
"Kohai, your entrance to the thread was legendary, you had a solve and a winning PoE right when you showed up, super impressive stuff, even more so considering it wasn't even your objective!!" - Zrein
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/6/2026 at 10:16 PM (post #214)
I can understand lynching me to confirm my role and result, but while I think the Role Cop argument has merit, it's banking a lot on my having a certain role and making a very specific choice with it.
This is what you said in Chicago Bears mafia when you were scum btw lol
#76 is in reference to game balance mechanics that I already know for a fact exist that no one else can know based on my role pm, talking about overlapping mechanics in general. I'd rather not elaborate on this.
I doubt you would make this comment if you were just Bulletproof, so I do agree with wylted that your comments indicate Redirector.
Automated Vote Count
This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.
whiteflame (2/5): RexFavilla (p#154), wylted (p#194)
RexFavilla (2/5): ILikePie5 (p#200), whiteflame (p#220)
Lunatic (1/5): Banana (p#78)
Not Voting (3): Lunatic (p#205), Mag1cman, Wryly
With 8 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day phase ends in 15 hours.
"Kohai, your entrance to the thread was legendary, you had a solve and a winning PoE right when you showed up, super impressive stuff, even more so considering it wasn't even your objective!!" - Zrein
Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/6/2026 at 10:48 PM (post #218)
I need everyone to name exactly one person who they would lynch right now, gun to your head
Sigh. Yesterday I would have said Luna with more confidence. If he's a Redirector, I consider that a soft CC with Thoth. I see no reason to sus Rex. We have nothing on whiteflame except vibes and paranoid suspicion that his claim is concocted from a Role Cop, but the bitch of it is you almost never have anything concrete on whiteflame. I guess I'll still say Luna. Luna has been a little squirelly since whiteflame's claim, and I thought it was weird last DP when he accused Banana of jumping on the Thoth wagon quickly when she had been sussing him since page 2 or 3. But mostly it's just that his comments have indicated he's a Redirector and I can't square that with a Nexus.
Here's the setup of Kohai's previous few games, if anyone's interested.
Nothing jumps out at me as "town Nexus + town Redirector" egregious. And he put multiple protective roles in both games, so Mag1c's Doctor and a BP Luna wouldn't be out of the question.
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/6/2026 at 8:18 PM (post #215)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/6/2026 at 9:21 PM (post #204)
Originally Posted by wylted on 7/6/2026 at 5:22 PM (post #196)
Lunatic essentially admitted to being a redirector. Mentioned the balance thing after Thoth claimed so immediately soft claimed it essentially when 1x bullet proof would be easier .
I but the theory that this is a role cop thing and he's like "fuck I guess we can't kill lunatic and steal stah claim"
So he does the second best thing
It's a very plausible thing.
It feels like whiteflame is scum every time I play with him though and I have a pang of guilt for sussing him
I did not admit to being redirector. You are reading too much into that, the comment about balance was also made before whiteflame said his result on me.
You were getting pretty defensive about the plausibility of a Redirector being in the game, so I get why Wylted came away with that perspective.
Stop saying I was defensive lol. Pretty sure you have all seen me more heated, which is what I would call defensive. I'm giving you robot-esque sounding replies and thats being construed as defensive, I don't get it.
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/6/2026 at 8:20 PM (post #216)
Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 7/6/2026 at 9:46 PM (post #209)
Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/6/2026 at 9:21 PM (post #204)
Originally Posted by wylted on 7/6/2026 at 5:22 PM (post #196)
Lunatic essentially admitted to being a redirector. Mentioned the balance thing after Thoth claimed so immediately soft claimed it essentially when 1x bullet proof would be easier .
I but the theory that this is a role cop thing and he's like "fuck I guess we can't kill lunatic and steal stah claim"
So he does the second best thing
It's a very plausible thing.
It feels like whiteflame is scum every time I play with him though and I have a pang of guilt for sussing him
I did not admit to being redirector. You are reading too much into that, the comment about balance was also made before whiteflame said his result on me.
If you were BP you'd be trying to lynch Magic right now.
I'm not sure why a BP and Doctor being in the game seems off, particularly with a multi-shot Vig in play.
It's not unheard of to have two protection roles in the same game, but I would expect a soft-protection to exist as a second protection rather than two hard protects. Usually its like body guard, and doc/bp, not just a straight up doc and bp. Chances are scum have a strong man, and that balances into it, though an every night strongman completely invalidates both roles. It's probably more likely there's a single protection role. That said I wouldn't die on that hill in a kohai game especially with balance as fucked as it is.
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/6/2026 at 8:48 PM (post #218)
I need everyone to name exactly one person who they would lynch right now, gun to your head
Going on behavior I would want banana. She has role confirmation going for her, but you have to admit she is playing very differently this game. She was more aggressive than I have ever seen her, and using weaker logic than I have seen her use. Usually she can put out semi decent thoughts and reads, but this game it's not been there. D1 she piled on thoth, when he got lynched she said we should scutinize both thoth and shinings wagons, despite the fact that she herself was the first on on the thoth wagon. Then her bandwaonny vote on my and subsequent dis-appearance afterwords. The only thing she has going for her is that role. I would rather lynch on behavior though because mods do like to give town roles that can be "town confirmed" semi frequently. I would like to see what kind of support there is for a Banana lynch.
VTL: Banana
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Reads:
Banana- Lean Scum- She has some role confirmation going for her, that's about it. Mods frequently give scum "confirmable" type roles though for balance, to prove the point that players being role confirmed should not eliminate need for lynching based on behavior. Banana behaviorally just feels different. She was a hypocrite in wanting to pressure people on the shining/thoth wagon despite the fact she herself was on the thoth wagon. But she didn't even follow through with that despite dedicating her entire np1 ability to basically posting she thinks we should be targetting those on that wagon. She voted me instead, and then just dis-appeared. Her aggressive stances early don't seem like her at all, and she seems to be trying to take advantage of a mislynch opportunity with whiteflames results rather than even attempt to consider a world where I would be town. Her behavior has been very unusual to her normal playstyle this game, and I challenge anyone to prove otherwise for me. Normally I feel like she screams town when town, and I am not getting that vibe at all now.
iLikePie5- Null- I am hesitant to put pie in either scum or town camp right now, because I am not seeing a lot of behaviors that indicate heavily either way. The worst thing he has going for him is over all activity seeming lower than usual, but he didn explain that its fourth of july weekend so that could attribute to that. Pie doesn't feel as locked in as normal though and that's the main reason I would give him some suspicion. I won't bag on him for the shining push, that push made a lot of sense considering the day was ending and shinings slot was basically useless at this point. He seems like he is trying to get things rolling more now by pinging players and get them to force a read, which I like. I think today will be pivotal in reading pie since the weekend of the fourth is over and we should be seeing more activity from him going forward.
Magic (replaced shining)- Town- I buy the doctor claim atm, not that magic isn't capable of claiming a role like that as scum, but purely from a balance perspective. I'll let people infer whatever they want about my own claim from this, but a doctor seems very neccesary for this type of game (even if it exists along side a BP, which I am not confirming or denying that I am). Magics been okay behaviorally as well, I say that with a grain of salt because of the activity issues, but nothing stands out at me as particularly scummy so far. As someone who gives constant praise for magic's scum play, I would normally be hyper paranoid about this slot, but I am so convinced he is town based on his claim, that should tell you exactly what I think of kohai's balance in this game lol.
RexFavilla (Replacing Magoroth)- lean scum- The main thing I don't like is his insistance between lynching whiteflame and myself, it's weird and I don't really understand it. The only basis to lynch whiteflame would be if he expects whiteflame is a rolecop exactly. I also dis-agree that "Rolecop is the weakest role and would be used early". 1. Rolecop is not a weak role, especially early in mafia when we have limited claims. Mafia had very little POE to work with after day phase one with the limited activity and basically only having two role claims between shining and mikal. Information is pretty pivotal for scum at that point, so a rolecop would get a lot of value. 2. In general even if we are to assume rolecop is a weak role, scum tend to save weak roles later, and use their arsenal in the beginning. I think I would like to see examples of what hes talking about with scum wasting weak roles early, that has not been something I have ever observed.
Anyways his insistence on pressuring between me and whiteflame is a bit weird, ironically I would suspect this less if he was full tunnel on one or the other. I think it also weird he is doing the whole "I am not claiming" thing again directly after doing that in another game where he was town, feels like a set up to use the argument of "I just did this as town". Also he only had two votes on him when he did this. Also neither pie nor whiteflame asked him for a claim lol.
Whiteflame- slight town- His results are accurate, so again he would have to be some sort of scum role cop to get those results. The more the game goes on the more I doubt that he is. Comedian is a role we've seen before a couple times, though it is rare. I think the first time I seen this role was in supas south park mafia, and I think it was used at least once or twice since then though I barely remember it. It's one of those investigative roles that can help with POE but doesn't tip the balance heavily towards town either. I don't have major issues with whiteflame behaviorally, though I am vexed at his repeated insistence that I am being "defensive" which is just wrong, or being argued in bad faith. That said his behavior doesn't stand out as scummy to me so far, and his reads and activity have been good and consistent. He's probably by far the most active player so far, and he hasn't had a ton of takes that really just make me raise my eyebrows at him. I have been fooled many a time by whiteflame behaviorally, so I may change my tune here as the game progresses, and most of my clearing of him is mechanical based atm.
Wryly- slight town- Hard to say with wryly, and this is mostly based on gut, but she's been attacking things from a fairly "straight-forward" POV. Ironically she was actually right to do this wrt to mikal, who turns out wasn't lying, even after I was convinced he was baiting something. She's ben trying to work through all results and claims logically though, and doesn't seem to be jumping to quick conclusions. I like her latest posts looking at past games as well. I think I've only seen wryly as scum one time, and I am not seeing a lot of similarities to that game. I also know that the game where she was scum kind of stuck with her and was a reason she didn't want to play for a while afterwards in case she would roll scum again, so I just feel like her behavior would be more guarded in general if she was scum, given the paranoia she would probably have at being caught again. She's been playing with her walls down, and I think that is a point in her favor at the moment.
Wylted- Null- Can't really say what I think about wylted at the moment, other than he's been wrong a lot about his thoughts on my claim, and I just can't really elaborate on that at this time. I would have expected scum wylted to tunnel me a bit more though, thinking he could use whiteflames results for a mislynch. He has been more reserved though, and patient then I would expect of scum wylted. That said he still is floating the Lunatic lynch on assumptions about the result, so not a major fan of that. The whiteflame vote was odd, and un-explained. I don't like the town read on banana who is my top scum read at the moment. I am okay placing wylted as a firm null though at the moment. Still trying to decide with him.
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Claims:
Thoth- Christopher Michael Langan- PGO/Nexus (Post 3, 52 dp1)
Magic (Shining)- FDR- Doctor (Post 5, dp1. Post 182, dp2)
Wryly- Princess Donut (Post 9, dp1)
Wylted- BBQ Becky (Post 10 dp1)
Mikal- Squall- Unlimited self protected vig (LMAO)
Whiteflame- Midge Maisel- Comedian: Targeted Lunatic Np1, received “Redirector, Delayed NP2 Vig, 1x bulletproof” (Post 53, dp2)
Lunatic- ??? - Confirmed whiteflames results (Post 54, dp2)
Unclaimed:
iLikePIe5
RexFavilla (Magoroth)
Banana
In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.
Automated Vote Count
This vote count was generated by the mafia vote bot.
whiteflame (2/5): RexFavilla (p#154), wylted (p#194)
RexFavilla (2/5): ILikePie5 (p#200), whiteflame (p#220)
Lunatic (1/5): Banana (p#78)
Banana (1/5): Lunatic (p#234)
Not Voting (2): Mag1cman, Wryly
With 8 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day phase ends in 10 hours.
"Kohai, your entrance to the thread was legendary, you had a solve and a winning PoE right when you showed up, super impressive stuff, even more so considering it wasn't even your objective!!" - Zrein
I don’t see a reason to lynch WF here. He’s basically our only claimed investigative
Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/7/2026 at 1:48 AM (post #227)
Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/6/2026 at 10:16 PM (post #214)
I can understand lynching me to confirm my role and result, but while I think the Role Cop argument has merit, it's banking a lot on my having a certain role and making a very specific choice with it.
This is what you said in Chicago Bears mafia when you were scum btw lol
It's not like I'm often given sets of information like this and this is my first time seeing this role, so I know I wouldn't expect people to trust my result at face value. We've done this dance with Dreamer results before, too, it's the reason Casey got lynched a couple of games back. Whether I'm scum or town, I get the thinking, even if I disagree with it personally.
Stop saying I was defensive lol. Pretty sure you have all seen me more heated, which is what I would call defensive. I'm giving you robot-esque sounding replies and thats being construed as defensive, I don't get it.
Fine, I'll leave that aside. I think avoiding claiming is causing a lot of the uncertainty around both of us, but I'll take that you haven't been heated about it.
It's not unheard of to have two protection roles in the same game, but I would expect a soft-protection to exist as a second protection rather than two hard protects. Usually its like body guard, and doc/bp, not just a straight up doc and bp. Chances are scum have a strong man, and that balances into it, though an every night strongman completely invalidates both roles. It's probably more likely there's a single protection role. That said I wouldn't die on that hill in a kohai game especially with balance as fucked as it is.
I can't say I get arguing against this balance from your perspective, especially given the BP is the most likely to be town. Seems like you're implying a balance issue exists in the game based on your role, so maybe that's the point.
