Majora's Mask Mafia - Final Day

Anyway, I'm pausing here. I'll wait to hear back from Thoth at this point.

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 8/22/2026 at 9:37 AM (post #1243)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 8/22/2026 at 11:24 AM (post #1241)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 8/22/2026 at 9:16 AM (post #1237)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 8/22/2026 at 11:06 AM (post #1235)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 8/22/2026 at 9:05 AM (post #1233)

So Mag1c was pretty clearly falling on his own sword at the end there. He had to know that claiming the JK and saying he targeted the player who both claimed Link and claimed a successful night action would be a huge risk. Not saying that he knew from the moment he claimed that he was going to get lynched, but he clearly knew that the writing was on the wall if we bought into it wylted's claim at all.

Looking through his last few pages, I'm mainly wondering if his caps locked "LETS MAKE A DEAL" posts were more performative or real. Was that just outright desperation play knowing that he'd be fucked given how many people were pairing Luna and him, or was this some last minute distancing?

100% last minute distancing dude. Dude knew he was caught and about to be lynched. Since when do we ever trust someone whose known scum in that scenario?

It's not about whether I "trust" him, it's about what I think he was trying to do here. If he really believed this was the end, then I don't have to trust anything, I can just note that he was trying to get the TP on the same page to secure a vote that he probably wouldn't get anyway. A frustrated Mag1c might do just that.

Magic is calculated as fuck, I am not buying that he was frustrated. I saw him work wonders in Ted Lasso. Town magic gets frustrated, as you saw with the rage quit a few games ago. Anything magic is doing in the final throws of death is planned to make me look bad lol.

You think if I was scum with him I would sign off on any of that? Also you have seen me resign for way less, you think if I was magics scum partner I wouldn't have resigned after mikal/wylted got mod confirmation?

Given the circumstances, I'm not quite as sure that Mag1c was being calculated here. The comparison to a game where he carried scum to a win feels a bit off since, here, he wasn't exactly in a position to do anything other than direct attention. Maybe that's what he was doing. Maybe he was just mad that he was the first scum eliminated. Honestly, haven't seen many games where he goes down early as scum, so it's hard to say.

I am just saying if the dude is already admitting he is scum, and is blaming the mod for stuff there's two possibilies:

1. He is trying to spread wifom manipulation
2. The scum team is conceding.

2 didnt happen, both me and rex are claiming third party, so it's obivously 1. If you believe he was genuinely going against his team mate, you are literally buying into the manipulation he is selling.

And no, I don't think you'd sign off on that. It's less a matter of what you'd approve and more a matter of what he'd do regardless of what anyone said. Would you resign in that circumstance? Maybe.

Like I said, you've seen me resign for less bro. Mikal was hard tunneling me at the end of the phase, and even calling me scum at the end. Kohai was calling me scum as well. Neither of them are dead. Wylted is dead, out of all people. Why is wylted dead? It almost looks like the people selected for LYLO were the exact ones rex/magic knew would have bias against me in the last day phase.

Rex's lack of activity doesn't help his case and if I was in your shoes, I would've at least tried to swing a vote against him like you're doing. Not saying that makes you scum, just saying I don't buy into the whole "I'd have given up by now" position with so many of us questioning the Unjester coming into this DP.

He's stuck between having to pretend to care and not pretend to care. Mechanically with his fake claim he has to pretend to be inactive and not care, so why did he come in and bother saying anything? If your willing to buy scum conceded, then why couldn't his claim and subsequent play be a form of concession? He literally has to do nothing but sit in the shadows and watch the chaos of what he did unfold about him, and its working like a fucking charm. He set up his fake third party claim to do exactly that. If he loses, no sweat off his back, he has less than 30 posts in the game and he can just blame the mod for his loss if you guys lynch him. Magic was already doing that. They can just chill and hope town wifom themselves to death, which is exactly what is happening. You think magic and rex aren't genius for that shit? Seems pretty genius from my POV.

Few things I’m worried about

1) I can see w!Luna just flat out conceding

2) Rex’s claim is retarded as fuck. I don’t know if Thoth could give someone such a godawful win con

3) I’d rather lose to w!Luna than w!Rex

4) Luna’s claim is far more likely ans more in line with the lore

I'm not dismissing any of those points (I'm going to stop the long quote crawl for a minute), they're all among my considerations. It's entirely possible that the manipulation of your role was somehow done by Rex and his role, which I'll point out, would also mean there's another scum JOAT in the mix. Maybe I'm just overthinking it and Mag1c's role was actually responsible. There's a lot of behavioral points in your favor, and like Kohai said earlier, I'm tempted to just vote him out of sheer frustration for his lack of participation. He's made it virtually impossible to read him, so we're having to dance around his behavior and focus on yours and Mag1c's instead. It's the same boat I got into with Earth a few games back and he won there as scum because Thoth came off as too scummy for me to ignore.

VTL: RexFavilla

UNVOTE

I have a hard time believing that Thoth gave one scum member a role that he'd publicly reveal through an Informed Town player, so yes, I believe there very well could be two JOATs (it's not that uncommon, particularly with this many investigatives)

Can you cite an example of when you've seen two JOAT's? Maybe I just wasn't in that game, but yeah even if there was like one case study game, thats not a very compelling argument that there has to be two JOAT's, especially if your choosing to buy that over the obvious one thats already flipped in the drug deal.

 to give scum more utility beyond the Tailor while drawing attention to it.

Magics role a roleblocker, lookout/scout (on top of the one pie had allegedly and kohais), and and ascetizer, that plus a tailor is already a lot. At most I could probably buy them having an odd/even, or a day role on top of that, but a whole ass second JOAT seems a bit odd to me.

That doesn't mean you'd have to necessarily be a 1X Messenger, but it does mean you'd have to have a role akin to it, and if you're a JOAT, then yes, I believe it would be 1X.

My point is that you have to conjure up some made up role that essentially works like a messenger to believe I am scum, instead of just accepting that magic either guessed right and used his role correctly between 2 players, me and kohai. I just don't understand how one is an easier narrative to believe than the other. Sure be open minded to it, but Mikal is literally openly choosing the first option over the latter, and now your regurgitating that, which further muddies the waters that I am some wierd ass message sending role instead of what I claimed.

A lot of the rest of this is WIFOM.

If you people can't accept my confirmable role as proof, then all I have is WIFOM. The fact that rex gets to just let us out wifom ourselves here to take a laid back easy win, is working precisely in his favor too. He doesn't even have to WIFOM, he can just let you guys tear me apart when I am the only one actively trying to achieve a win for both me and town now.

A Tailor is a big deal and Thoth wasn't likely to load the player who got it down with other huge roles.

But isn't that exactly the point I am making?

I understand if it's frustrating, but I'm going to kick the tires on theories before I vote anywhere. You can't expect me to just ignore these concerns or refocus elsewhere because, like it or not, you've posted way more than Rex. We have a lot more to consider with you.

You don't have to ignore it, but from a logical stand point you shouldn't place a lot of stock in them because they just don't make enough sense. I know you know that. I feel like the fact they are being entertained is probably respect for me as a player, but I don't think this same thing would be even taken nearly as seriously if it were someone else. Basically you guys are being extra paranoid about it because of you don't want scum luna to pull one over on you. To that extent I get it, but at the same time, its just ugh....

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 8/22/2026 at 10:38 AM (post #1248)

I'm not dismissing any of those points (I'm going to stop the long quote crawl for a minute), they're all among my considerations. It's entirely possible that the manipulation of your role was somehow done by Rex and his role, which I'll point out, would also mean there's another scum JOAT in the mix. Maybe I'm just overthinking it and Mag1c's role was actually responsible. There's a lot of behavioral points in your favor, and like Kohai said earlier, I'm tempted to just vote him out of sheer frustration for his lack of participation. He's made it virtually impossible to read him, so we're having to dance around his behavior and focus on yours and Mag1c's instead. It's the same boat I got into with Earth a few games back and he won there as scum because Thoth came off as too scummy for me to ignore.

I think the most infuriating aspect of this is that I even have to work with and negotiate with you guys. I was fully committed to trying to scum side, since it barely happens, then Rex just fucking throws that at me lol. It was clear to me it was rex and magic toward the end, I just needed one of anyone else plus them to vote for one of wylted or mikal and I could have hammered and given them the win lol. They took the desperate road and tried to claim third party, now I have to sit here and back track and try to win with town when I never had any interest in doing that, and I'm sitting here arguing for my life because I have to now lol

Anyways, gotta go to bed. I'll check back this evening.

Gonna place my vote on Rex, since its kind of obvious its him or me at this point.

VTL: RexFavilla

Can you cite an example of when you've seen two JOAT's? Maybe I just wasn't in that game, but yeah even if there was like one case study game, thats not a very compelling argument that there has to be two JOAT's, especially if your choosing to buy that over the obvious one thats already flipped in the drug deal.

The Candace Owens game had two mafia JOATs.

My Frieren game had two.

The Legend of Zelda game had two.

That's just the recent ones I've leafed through, but yes, these aren't rare. And I'll point out that, while the Drug Dealer may have caused the odd result that Kohai received, it's not a given. It would make more sense for you to acknowledge that another scum JOAT may well exist, since there are other roles that could explain that result.

Magics role a roleblocker, lookout/scout (on top of the one pie had allegedly and kohais), and and ascetizer, that plus a tailor is already a lot. At most I could probably buy them having an odd/even, or a day role on top of that, but a whole ass second JOAT seems a bit odd to me.

Again, see the above. Also, given how many investigatives there are, I don't get how this is odd. Even with all that on Mag1c, this game is looking heavily town-sided.

My point is that you have to conjure up some made up role that essentially works like a messenger to believe I am scum, instead of just accepting that magic either guessed right and used his role correctly between 2 players, me and kohai. I just don't understand how one is an easier narrative to believe than the other. Sure be open minded to it, but Mikal is literally openly choosing the first option over the latter, and now your regurgitating that, which further muddies the waters that I am some wierd ass message sending role instead of what I claimed.

I'm not conjuring up anything. I'm considering alternate ways that Kohai could have received that same message without actually confirming you. It's basic due diligence at this point. My problem with saying that "magic guessed right" is that you've already said your role isn't specified as "Cop." If he guessed Cop, would his role have affected yours? I'm still not clear, that's part of why I asked the question earlier. Again, seems entirely reasonable to interrogate the obvious means of affecting role results that's on the table and how it relates to yours. If you have a problem with that because Mikal has mentioned it too, so be it, but I can't ignore it.

If you people can't accept my confirmable role as proof, then all I have is WIFOM. The fact that rex gets to just let us out wifom ourselves here to take a laid back easy win, is working precisely in his favor too. He doesn't even have to WIFOM, he can just let you guys tear me apart when I am the only one actively trying to achieve a win for both me and town now.

Who said he's taking an easy win? I've already said that the reason you're getting interrogated is because you've participated and there's little to get into with him. That doesn't mean I've stopped considering him entirely.

A Tailor is a big deal and Thoth wasn't likely to load the player who got it down with other huge roles.

But isn't that exactly the point I am making?

I wouldn't call the kind of manipulative role we're talking about a "huge role," but sure.

You don't have to ignore it, but from a logical stand point you shouldn't place a lot of stock in them because they just don't make enough sense. I know you know that. I feel like the fact they are being entertained is probably respect for me as a player, but I don't think this same thing would be even taken nearly as seriously if it were someone else. Basically you guys are being extra paranoid about it because of you don't want scum luna to pull one over on you. To that extent I get it, but at the same time, its just ugh....

I don't get what doesn't make sense here. We have an unexplained element here: the result that Kohai received incorrectly clocked Mag1c as town. That leaves three possibilities:

1) One of Mag1c's roles fucked with your result (still looking into the plausibility of that)

2) One of Rex's roles fucked with your result

3) Your role is doing something other than just sending a Cop result to another player

So, yes, I'm being paranoid about it. I do respect you a lot as a player, but I also just have a problem with an outstanding result that doesn't make basic sense to me and I'm trying to figure it out. I'd be trying to do that no matter who you were.

I think the most infuriating aspect of this is that I even have to work with and negotiate with you guys. I was fully committed to trying to scum side, since it barely happens, then Rex just fucking throws that at me lol. It was clear to me it was rex and magic toward the end, I just needed one of anyone else plus them to vote for one of wylted or mikal and I could have hammered and given them the win lol. They took the desperate road and tried to claim third party, now I have to sit here and back track and try to win with town when I never had any interest in doing that, and I'm sitting here arguing for my life because I have to now lol

Yeah, it's frustrating. And I'm tempted to just give you the win, no matter what side you're on, and lynch Rex because I really don't want to give him the win if he is scum. He's put so little into this game. That might end up being the reason I end up voting, but it's not what I'm considering right now.

Thoth just told me a role would have to be names specifically. So if there is no role it would not work. If it was vague nits host discretion. But past that did every flip have a role name.

That may be Lunas slip

I think every person and every role has a specific name and based on thoths answer. I think he confirmed it

Wf can you check every flip and claim

The only one that seems to not be is shinning but he cant get a result. All the investigative roles have a name since drug dealer could impact them. Thoth said they'd have to name a role for it to work. Then said if it was vague it could be host discretion. But wont answer me about whether Conor role classifies as a cop

Has not answered may be worded better

So I got an answer from Thoth that was a little more specific. Won’t copy paste, but the gist is this:

If Mag1c had believed Luna was the Cop and told Thoth that, it wouldn’t have been enough. Scum would have had to know that it had a target and recipient that were distinct from the user. So effectively, unless Mag1c knew Luna’s role in detail, he couldn’t have manipulated it with the Drug Dealer, and since Luna hadn’t claimed, I don’t believe he did.

So, we’re down to two options:

1) One of Rex's roles fucked with Luna’s result

2) Luna’s role is doing something other than just sending a Cop result to another player

Either way, that confirms a second scum JOAT.

The lack of a role name doesn’t do Luna any favors, since that makes it far harder for the Drug Dealer to affect his role. Mag1c would have had to spell out specifics about how his role worked to affect it. Several roles in this game aren’t particularly common, but the informational roles are at least mostly straightforward in naming conventions. Mag1c could have targeted those players and named a role to affect the results they received. That is not the case for Luna.

Actually… I’m looking at Pie’s flip and it has the same problem. No name for a role.

Yeah thoth told me the same. They would need to name exactly what lunas role does. Give a green check for dealers to work on it

Copy paste his flip

ILikePie5 | Kaepora Graebora

You are Kaepora Gaebora, a wise old owl who gives Link the Song of Soaring and the Lens of Truth. You win with the Town. Because you hold the ability to soar and see what is normally hidden, each night, you may visit another player and learn either who visited them or who they visited.

Asked a follow-up. The difference is that this functions like a JOAT. If Pie had used a Tracker and Mag1c had guessed “Tracker,” it would have modified the result. If he had used “Watcher” instead, it wouldn’t. So there’s still a big difference.

So that isn’t a slam dunk case against Luna, but he’s clearly wrong that there isn’t a second JOAT and his role is still an outlier based on how the Drug Dealer is written, since it basically makes it impossible (minus very specific knowledge of his role) to impact how it works.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 8/22/2026 at 2:03 PM (post #1253)

Anyways, gotta go to bed. I'll check back this evening.

Gonna place my vote on Rex, since its kind of obvious its him or me at this point.

VTL: RexFavilla

Do we get another NP after this? On my phone so cant ask thoth. If you manage to convince one of them to vote for a townie Ill hammer for you if you promise to kill me.

Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 8/22/2026 at 4:13 PM (post #1267)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 8/22/2026 at 2:03 PM (post #1253)

Anyways, gotta go to bed. I'll check back this evening.

Gonna place my vote on Rex, since its kind of obvious its him or me at this point.

VTL: RexFavilla

Do we get another NP after this? On my phone so cant ask thoth. If you manage to convince one of them to vote for a townie Ill hammer for you if you promise to kill me.

Nope, game over after the lynch dude. Soon as the DP ends, it’s over.

”Town win if all scum are dead by the end of day 3, after the lynch. Scum win if they reach parity, or if at least one scum is alive after the lynch on day 3, or if nothing can prevent one of those things from happening.”

Automated Vote Count

This system-generated vote count was posted on behalf of the main host.

RexFavilla (1/3): Lunatic (p#1253)

Not Voting (4): whiteflame, RexFavilla, Mikal, Insomniac (p#1250)

With 5 players alive, the base elimination threshold is 3. Configured role modifiers may change vote power or an individual player's threshold. Day phase ends in 2 days, 9 hours.

Okay then I dont really care who wins Luna's played well enough to deserve the win as scum

VTL Rexfavilla

Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 8/22/2026 at 4:20 PM (post #1270)

Okay then I dont really care who wins Luna's played well enough to deserve the win as scum

VTL Rexfavilla

Well, if you’re the TP, you are basically just screwed at this point. Should've pushed harder for Banana to kill you, dude.

If pie is tailored. Luna has ti be town.

My pm is different than pies structurally

Automated Vote Count

This system-generated vote count was posted on behalf of the main host.

RexFavilla (1/3): Lunatic (p#1253)

Not Voting (4): whiteflame, RexFavilla, Mikal, Insomniac (p#1250)

With 5 players alive, the base elimination threshold is 3. Configured role modifiers may change vote power or an individual player's threshold. Day phase ends in 2 days, 9 hours.

Originally Posted by Mikal on 8/22/2026 at 4:40 PM (post #1272)

If pie is tailored. Luna has ti be town.

My pm is different than pies structurally

Is there any world where that result on Mag1c came from Mag1c’s role?