Apocalypse Mafia - DP1

Could you put Pie at L-1?

just got caught up.

okay from readin dp1 heres my analsis:

my strongest scum read is pie. he pushes kohai without any sort of devloped case in 19, immediately dmanding a full clam and asks several ppl to join the wagon. the vote itself can be dismissed as pie being pie, but it does feel ultra aggressive that pie is treating kohai as likely scum without explaining what kohai actually did, then kohai has been very active and contributing to it makes no sense to push him this strongly. in post 39 he manufactures urgency bcuz the day will end in a last minute cfd with no scum elimination but that argument is a hard sell this early on in the game with an extended dp and before much of the roster has even talked, including jenkiggans. i agree with whiteflame chalklenging pie pushing so hard in these circumstances. next, his goal appears to be consolidation rather than investigation. when magic names both pie and kohai as suspects, pie does not adress seriously why he is being suspected by magic, and instead tells magic to vote kohai, which is a convienent attempt to redirect a two sided suspicion entirely onto kohai rather than himself. he is using an earlier game as camoflauge rather than investigation and justification. i think we have seen enough growth and development from kohai though to say that he has improved enough to the point where early pressure is no longer jsutified in every game he is in. it seems more like a deliberate attempt to reproduce the behavior everyone now expects from pie as town. lastly the main reason i suspect pie is that this is just tunneling at this point. while town can tunnel, i would expect some progression to continue justifying his tunnel. if he was getting valid reactions and responses to his tunnel to push a strong conviction, that would be another thing. he is avoiding all pressure on himself and instead just repeatedly dying on the hill that people should wagon his attempt to push kohai into an early claim. by post 120, the push just seems more performative and agenda driven than evidence driven, so pie is my preferred target.

now im not gonna say i town read kohai either, i do scum read him too, but its less than pie. the immediate countervote seems very defensive. refusing an unjustified claim is reasonable, but immediately converting the disagreement into a scum read is less convincing. his case on pie also relies heavily on the last game. kohai presents pies ambiguous meta as more incriminating than it really is. i also am not the biggest fan of his role soft claim. it reads very awkward. this might be an honest warning about a strange setup, but it could also preemptively explain a planned fake claim. i see magic notices this as well. overall he is setting up a safe adversarial relationship with pie. if him and pie are partners a loud and early conflict would give them distance. i dont think its the case tho because the early attention looks bad and forces a claim out of one of the two.

magic is a mild suspect, only because his initial suspicion of pie and kohai being scum together is broad and thinly explained. it seems a bit like he is keeping both options open, with pie as his primary target and kohai as a secondary suspect, which is a comfortable position. criticize the loudest push without committing to the target, preserve both sides as possible mafia and maintain flexibility over the eventual wagon. that said i kind of agree with him so i dont really suspect him full on, just being watchful of the position he is placing himself in so far. a lot of his musing have seemed helpful and thought out. he has a structured set of reads, questions suspicious role softs, and is actively requesting more from other players which is more constructive than what several others have provided.

i think thoth is a safe town read. his opening statement that the game description conflicts with his role pm is conspicuous, and the later statement that the pm itself is factually incorrect is strange. however volunteering such a potentially verififiable role so early creates unneed exposure for mafia. thoth also votes pie instead of being oppertunistic and boarding the kohai train pie attempted to bully people into. im mostly towning him from his role soft tho.

with vader, he has contributed less than i would prefer, but multiple players respond positively to him and nothing he has said has hinted at a clear agenda or any contradiction in his thoughts. its a very light town lean, and lately his posts have been shared skepticism over pies aggression so that might be why i town read him.

lunatics analysis seems thoughtful, i would like to see more from him before i really decide on what to do with him.

whiteflame challenging pies artificial urgency, and suggestion of limited and voluntary softs to create discussion is seeming pro town. he is actually using soft information to develop nuanced evaultion rathan than forcing the interactions into a predetermined alignment. the approach looks transparent and exploratory, though, and him not taking a strong stance in the pie/kohai thing besides just questioning pies aggression looks less agenda driven to me.

anyways sorry for being late, i didnt realize this was posted yet, havent checked discord a lot. i will be active from here on out.

is kohai still just a pressure vote? if not what post by him made u think he was mafia?

how useful even is a claim here from him when we know that mafia have a likely fake claim based on the op?

when magic suspected both you and kohai why did you tell him to vote kohai rather than address his suspicion of you?

assuming kohai is town, who is most likely exploiting your push?

outside of kohai, can you give one mafia read and one town read based on the content of the game?

what about your push on kohai right now sets you apart as town from other pushes, like the one on thoth in the previous game? in otherwords, why is this push AI when we now know the one on thoth last game was scum motivated?

did u vote pie because his behavior was scummy, or because u thought his demand for you to claim was harmful to the game? if neither, plz explain.

what specifically seperates pie as mafia here from his town aggressiveness to create reactions?

is pie a genuine read or just someone u are annoyed with?

what were u hoping to accomplish with the counter vote?

when u said ur character justification and role dont fit together, why did you reveal that information, and what did u expect town to infer from it?

could that statement explain an incoherent fake claim you were setting up? why should we not intepret it that way?

who besides pie has treated your conflict oppertunistically in your opinion?

if pie flipped town and you were an investigator, who would you investigate and why?

can you rank the rest of the players in order of most suspicious to least suspicious?

I am in no rush to put anyone at L-1.

Also nice posts from Banana.

Official Vote Count

Pie (3/5) - Kohai, Thoth, magic

Kohai (1/5) - Pie

Not voting: Banana, JenKiggans, lunatic, Vader, whiteflame

DP1 ends 09/22 14:00 EST

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/20/2026 at 8:44 AM (post #66)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/19/2026 at 9:43 PM (post #54)

If I were to suspect two players based on what I’ve seen so far, it would be Pie + Kohai again

Maybe. Pie insta voting him could be a formed behavior out of being caught not doing that to him last game.

Like I said, I’m more than happy to be the bad guy if we actually do shit. I think we only have like 27 hours left.

Originally Posted by Thoth on 9/20/2026 at 8:12 PM (post #91)

Originally Posted by Thoth on 9/20/2026 at 8:01 PM (post #87)

Also, upon re-reading my PM, I just realized that it is factually incorrect.

The PM itself? Might want to touch base with Bullish about that.

Yes, it's factually incorrect per my existing understanding and per a quick search. I know what Bullish confused it with, though, and there's no point arguing about it since the justification still makes sense.

He probably used AI to create the PM

Originally Posted by Vader on 9/20/2026 at 8:33 PM (post #93)

I do not like Pie's push on Kohai. Seems way to forced and seems to be trying to draw a mislynch opportunity

It’s a reaction to last game where we as scum took advantage of town not doing anything to escape a lynch. Kohai buckles under hard pressure. It’s a known fact

Originally Posted by Vader on 9/20/2026 at 8:42 PM (post #97)

If we had more posts this DP I actually could see Kohai being a bit of an FoS because it seems like is some filler posts with no true depth, but can't read much into with 97 posts and 3/4 of the post truly not being much

Any reason why you’re looking at Kohai specifically vs someone like Thoth, who has arguably had even more filler?

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/21/2026 at 12:29 AM (post #117)

I see a few posts from Kohai that vibes well, some that feel bad. Same with Pie. Screw it.

VTL Pie

putting Pie at L-2 just to get a claim out of someone this DP

and then I want to grab Kohai’s claim right after

I’ll claim at L-1 as usual, verbal is fine, but just note that I’m always going to be in POE after and scum is going to rely on the Pie paranoia wagons

Originally Posted by Thoth on 9/21/2026 at 1:06 AM (post #121)

Could you put Pie at L-1?

Whats your issue with me?

Originally Posted by Banana on 9/21/2026 at 1:45 AM (post #123)

is kohai still just a pressure vote? if not what post by him made u think he was mafia?

Purely a pressure vote. He cracks under pressure as scum historically. I was just in a game with him too.

how useful even is a claim here from him when we know that mafia have a likely fake claim based on the op?

Well with that logic we wouldn’t ask for claims at all right? No idea is that let’s say he is scum, he uses the fake character claim. He still has to provide justification and the fake role. Thats where they get caught.

when magic suspected both you and kohai why did you tell him to vote kohai rather than address his suspicion of you?

His suspicion was that we were bussing, in that scenario it doesn’t make a difference who he pursues. Thats addressing the suspicion.

assuming kohai is town, who is most likely exploiting your push?

This early? Thoth. Potentially Vader.

outside of kohai, can you give one mafia read and one town read based on the content of the game?

Hmm this is a new one. Thoth/Vader as scum and town as Mag1c.

what about your push on kohai right now sets you apart as town from other pushes, like the one on thoth in the previous game? in otherwords, why is this push AI when we now know the one on thoth last game was scum motivated?

I never said it’s AI. It’s NAI. I have done this as both affiliations. Recency bias says it’s scum motivated, but if you look historically, I’ve pushed quite a bit of people early on. Kohai’s vote was literally OMGUS and idek why Thoth is voting me lol. Mag1c I understand, cause hes always paranoid with me.

If you want my full claim, just verbally say it, no need to vote me. I don’t want a mishammer.

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/21/2026 at 11:19 AM (post #134)

If you want my full claim, just verbally say it, no need to vote me. I don’t want a mishammer.

yeah just do it

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/21/2026 at 3:05 AM (post #125)

I am in no rush to put anyone at L-1.

Also nice posts from Banana.

I mean we should be putting pressure on people. late in the dp, even when you posted that

if kohai and pie are both town lunatic and whiteflame look like they're straddling the game, letting town cruise toward mislynches. just a thought. but we have to come to a conclusion on both PIe and Kohai

... I'm gonna hard call this is exactly what scum LUnatic would do.

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/21/2026 at 11:19 AM (post #134)

If you want my full claim, just verbally say it, no need to vote me. I don’t want a mishammer.

do it so we can move on and least get one claim down... after that I might still want to look at kohai but i'm not liking lunatic's and whiteflame's approaches

moreso lunatic than whiteflame

Originally Posted by Banana on 9/21/2026 at 2:34 AM (post #122)

just got caught up.

okay from readin dp1 heres my analsis:

my strongest scum read is pie. he pushes kohai without any sort of devloped case in 19, immediately dmanding a full clam and asks several ppl to join the wagon. the vote itself can be dismissed as pie being pie, but it does feel ultra aggressive that pie is treating kohai as likely scum without explaining what kohai actually did, then kohai has been very active and contributing to it makes no sense to push him this strongly. in post 39 he manufactures urgency bcuz the day will end in a last minute cfd with no scum elimination but that argument is a hard sell this early on in the game with an extended dp and before much of the roster has even talked, including jenkiggans. i agree with whiteflame chalklenging pie pushing so hard in these circumstances. next, his goal appears to be consolidation rather than investigation. when magic names both pie and kohai as suspects, pie does not adress seriously why he is being suspected by magic, and instead tells magic to vote kohai, which is a convienent attempt to redirect a two sided suspicion entirely onto kohai rather than himself. he is using an earlier game as camoflauge rather than investigation and justification. i think we have seen enough growth and development from kohai though to say that he has improved enough to the point where early pressure is no longer jsutified in every game he is in. it seems more like a deliberate attempt to reproduce the behavior everyone now expects from pie as town. lastly the main reason i suspect pie is that this is just tunneling at this point. while town can tunnel, i would expect some progression to continue justifying his tunnel. if he was getting valid reactions and responses to his tunnel to push a strong conviction, that would be another thing. he is avoiding all pressure on himself and instead just repeatedly dying on the hill that people should wagon his attempt to push kohai into an early claim. by post 120, the push just seems more performative and agenda driven than evidence driven, so pie is my preferred target.

I don't know if that's true. I can see Pie pressuring Kohai as town, I can see him trying to get me to vote Kohai in his response to me as town. His stated agenda is to pressure Kohai and get him to slip early, noting that I sus both and trying to leverage that to get me vote Kohai is perfectly within town Pie's agenda. The sense of urgency bothers me.

Just vote Pie if you want his claim then, put him at L-1, or if that's too risky for you, tell him verbally that you vote is on him in spirit but not officially.

now im not gonna say i town read kohai either, i do scum read him too, but its less than pie. the immediate countervote seems very defensive. refusing an unjustified claim is reasonable, but immediately converting the disagreement into a scum read is less convincing. his case on pie also relies heavily on the last game. kohai presents pies ambiguous meta as more incriminating than it really is. i also am not the biggest fan of his role soft claim. it reads very awkward. this might be an honest warning about a strange setup, but it could also preemptively explain a planned fake claim. i see magic notices this as well. overall he is setting up a safe adversarial relationship with pie. if him and pie are partners a loud and early conflict would give them distance. i dont think its the case tho because the early attention looks bad and forces a claim out of one of the two.

This isn't the reason the scumread Kohai but I see what you're getting at. The issue is that town Kohai will absolutely be defensive if voted out of the blue by Pie. It's NAI.

My issue witrh Kohai that posat where gives a warning that his claim doesnt make sense at all

although scum has an incentive to claim a role that makes sense.. I can see the warning being a just in case but given Thoth's softclaim there might actually be issues with his PM...

You know what? I'm gonna move Kohai to NAI. My thoughts were too based on last game and that's a pitfall.

His reaction to Pie is something I can do as either affiliation.

Still the fact that no one capitalized on the pressure on Kohai is interesting to me. Like you'd think some mafioiso would want to take the opportunity with PIe's push no? Unless they thought Pie was reaction baiting. Assumes town Pie, and PIe also doesn't have any real pressure on him that I'd call opportunistic in nature.

I can however see mafia sitting back and letting town destroy each other, knowing adding pressure would make them look like a pouncing predator.

So honestly Pie/Kohai might juse depends on mafia's plan. Like if they want to pursue a wagon on Pie, I imagine they'd add pressure. But Pie doens't go down easily so he's a hard misylynch to get, so maybe it's better from them to let town run Pie's vote count up, and then get a mislynch off Pie turning on the peopleo n his wagon. That seems like a gfood plan for them

But we should solve Pie first to move on. For a now a claim from him is enough for me.

oh gr8 no one's here

hmmmm Lunatic's more recent posts look better... #139 in particular

I'm gonna move vader down to NAI. Only good townread at this point is Thoth

gimme a second to organize my thoughts

Thoth - solid town

I don't think scum is likely to claim that their role contradicts the OP. Possible for town cred but it's drawing a lot of attention so it's hard for me to call Thoth scum here. Only argument is opportunism - that he voted Pie bc Kohai did. But that's not a given. I can see why town would sus Pie's vote on Kohai, so I can't blame him for it. That being said...

Pie - solid town

So, enters the DP immedately pressuring Kohai. Now that could be him distancing Kohai, or just looking to get a mislynch. His stated reasons are that Kohai folds under pressure and that town needs to generate activity. Seems like an RVS vote, maybe looking to get his claim just to nail him down bc he can be mislynch bait, or reaction testing, or all of the above. #19 #32 #72 #73 all seem consistent in that regard. When pressured, he does his strategy of making sure he claims at L-1 to ensure at least two townies want his claim... it's good for info.

I think Pie can fake all of this. But the consistency looks nice and something that can be faked is not inherently scummy; I'm realizing that I started out with the assumption of scum Pie when I shouldn't have. And nothing really strikes as off upon rereading him. So I'm gonna flip my read and go town on Pie.

Unvote

Kohai - tossup

Enters the DP, immediately on the defensive, challenging Pie. Voting off Pie voting him. For Kohai idt the OMGUS is scummy in this situation. Not much else to go off of. He's disappeared, but he's got a holiday today, and late yesterday.

Only thing that feels off is #51. LIke it could be preparing a bad claim/covering for one. Mafia typically has an incentive to have a rational claim, making sure it's air tight. Warnings like that are from players who don't have the strongest fake claiming. I can see Kohai fitting in that camp. But it's no guarantee. I can see Kohai actually just having a stretched justification, given what Thoth has softed.

I continue this in a second but I'm locking in and now I think we should move on from Pie and Kohai. Feels like a dead end.

Idk who to pressure rn.

Pie, and Thoth, what are your thoughts?

hmmm I could go for Kohai here. I could.

If we have to CFD the top option is gonna be jenkiggans unfortunately. If they haven't been replaced by now, then Bullish isn't likely to find a replacement any time soon

the issue is that only solves JenKiggans. In that situation town could do it to punish an inactive, and it's a free mislynch for scum if we assume kiggans is town. Both sides have an incentive to do it.

Makes me want to consider a no-lynch, but then Kiggans being left alive mean they'll be a thorn in town's side basically the rest of the game. I feel like we're forced here actually.

VTL JenKiggans26

Originally Posted by Bullish on 9/21/2026 at 3:08 AM (post #126)

Official Vote Count

Pie (3/5) - Kohai, Thoth, magic

Kohai (1/5) - Pie

Not voting: Banana, JenKiggans, lunatic, Vader, whiteflame

DP1 ends 09/22 14:00 EST

DP ENDS IN SEVEN MINUTES

this is porbably a no-lynch, rip

JenKiggans26 -null

Inactive. Will probably have to lynch here just so the inactive doesn't drag us down all game long. But we probably won't get it off, sadly.

Banana - solid town

Enters the thread with some big reads, and asks quastions to both Pie and KOhai. They're interesting questions too so I can tell she's trying to confirm her thoughts on them. The approach is very towny.

VAder- slight scum

I don't see the same vibes I did upon reading him ealier. Just giving thoughts, I don't like the lack of voting on Pie or Kohai on the second day of a day phase. Flipping to him to scumread bc he has no reason togive those thoughts and not vote someone.

WHiteflame - slight scum

Flipping this one as well. Don't like how he's not trying to read any behavior. The oppenness while softing is appreciated but not inherently towny given scum has a fake claim. Softing here can help scum figure characters out... beyond that's it's the entirety of Whiteflame's focus so it fells like fak contribution.