Apocalypse Mafia - DP2

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 10:22 PM (post #57)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 9:22 PM (post #50)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 2:00 PM (post #26)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 10:07 AM (post #20)

Alright, one of you visited me last night. I know who you are and you know who you are. Confess or be lynched.

that would be me.

And pray tell what you did

I used a doctor ability on you.

Character and justification?

I'm not buying this.

Woah there you are. Randomly. Can you answer my previous questions to you, and give some feedback on the game in general?

As I said earlier the justification and character makes zero sense. I’m never claiming my character as this only helps scum further. We’ve already had too many claims IMO

Can you explain why claiming your character would help scum? You've already role claimed, in what way could your character be worse than claiming your role?

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 8:22 PM (post #57)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 9:22 PM (post #50)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 2:00 PM (post #26)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 10:07 AM (post #20)

Alright, one of you visited me last night. I know who you are and you know who you are. Confess or be lynched.

that would be me.

And pray tell what you did

I used a doctor ability on you.

Why Pie?

Because looking back at DP1, I don't remember you ever really having Pie as a strong townread. You moved away from suspecting him, sure, but I never got any indication from you that you thought he was a power role or something worth protecting..

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/23/2026 at 11:01 PM (post #63)

As I said earlier the justification and character makes zero sense. I’m never claiming my character as this only helps scum further. We’ve already had too many claims IMO

Can you explain why claiming your character would help scum? You've already role claimed, in what way could your character be worse than claiming your role?

Because scum are only provided with 1 fake role or character claim. THe more character claims we get the more it helps scum narrow the pool

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 10:22 PM (post #57)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 9:22 PM (post #50)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 2:00 PM (post #26)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 10:07 AM (post #20)

Alright, one of you visited me last night. I know who you are and you know who you are. Confess or be lynched.

that would be me.

And pray tell what you did

I used a doctor ability on you.

Alright, that's a start.

Several of us have mentioned just how odd it was that you chose Pie as your target. Why did you pick him? Why are you claiming "a doctor ability" instead of just saying what your role is? Are you refusing to claim your character for a reason or is this another Kohai situation where we'll know your role, but neither character nor justification will be forthcoming?

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/23/2026 at 10:34 PM (post #61)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 10:22 PM (post #57)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 9:22 PM (post #50)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 2:00 PM (post #26)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 10:07 AM (post #20)

Alright, one of you visited me last night. I know who you are and you know who you are. Confess or be lynched.

that would be me.

And pray tell what you did

I used a doctor ability on you.

Character and justification?

I'm not buying this.

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/23/2026 at 11:12 PM (post #65)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/23/2026 at 11:01 PM (post #63)

As I said earlier the justification and character makes zero sense. I’m never claiming my character as this only helps scum further. We’ve already had too many claims IMO

Can you explain why claiming your character would help scum? You've already role claimed, in what way could your character be worse than claiming your role?

Because scum are only provided with 1 fake role or character claim. THe more character claims we get the more it helps scum narrow the pool

As someone who currently thinks your behaviorally town, man, this isn't a great look. You say that giving away your character claim would be a problem, but you're clearly fine with getting Mag1c's despite him claiming what would theoretically be a role that he could confirm while still alive. Not saying I buy Mag1c's claim either, but this is pretty hypocritical.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/23/2026 at 11:05 PM (post #64)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 8:22 PM (post #57)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 9:22 PM (post #50)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 2:00 PM (post #26)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 10:07 AM (post #20)

Alright, one of you visited me last night. I know who you are and you know who you are. Confess or be lynched.

that would be me.

And pray tell what you did

I used a doctor ability on you.

Why Pie?

Because looking back at DP1, I don't remember you ever really having Pie as a strong townread. You moved away from suspecting him, sure, but I never got any indication from you that you thought he was a power role or something worth protecting..

lol still trying to cast doubt is crazy

First off, my early scumread of Pie is irrelevant; I had him as town in my final thoughts.

Second, no one in this game, I felt, had a strong indicator of being a PR worth protecting. I townread Banana, Pie and Thoth. If Thoth had a PR worth protecting, he wouldn't have been so open about his role PM contradicting something in the OP. And Banana and Pie gave no subconscious hints in any of their behavior. Banana was more widely townread, sure, but I chose Pie because he has a history of being fearkilled when town.

So we can safely say that the mafia team does not fear Pie, which points to more experienced players.

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/23/2026 at 10:34 PM (post #61)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 10:22 PM (post #57)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 9:22 PM (post #50)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 2:00 PM (post #26)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 10:07 AM (post #20)

Alright, one of you visited me last night. I know who you are and you know who you are. Confess or be lynched.

that would be me.

And pray tell what you did

I used a doctor ability on you.

Character and justification?

I'm not buying this.

You're not buying a doctor ability?

lol. lmao even.

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 11:29 PM (post #69)

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/23/2026 at 10:34 PM (post #61)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 10:22 PM (post #57)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 9:22 PM (post #50)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 2:00 PM (post #26)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 10:07 AM (post #20)

Alright, one of you visited me last night. I know who you are and you know who you are. Confess or be lynched.

that would be me.

And pray tell what you did

I used a doctor ability on you.

Character and justification?

I'm not buying this.

You're not buying a doctor ability?

lol. lmao even.

what's your role, character, and justificaiton?

Can you clear me so we can move on from this? I'd rather not give all my cards away. Mafia was given only one fake claim of some kind, and I'd rather things stay difficult for them.

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/23/2026 at 11:31 PM (post #70)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 11:29 PM (post #69)

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/23/2026 at 10:34 PM (post #61)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 10:22 PM (post #57)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 9:22 PM (post #50)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 2:00 PM (post #26)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 10:07 AM (post #20)

Alright, one of you visited me last night. I know who you are and you know who you are. Confess or be lynched.

that would be me.

And pray tell what you did

I used a doctor ability on you.

Character and justification?

I'm not buying this.

You're not buying a doctor ability?

lol. lmao even.

what's your role, character, and justificaiton?

That's up to Pie. You're not getting anything more out of me.

I trust Pie, you all should, and if he has enough to clear me, you don't need to press for anything more.

So... I guess we're just trusting that Mag1c has a role that basically confirmed him to his target? Pie, is that true?

In the meantime, I'm going for Lunatic.

VTL Lunatic

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/23/2026 at 11:27 PM (post #67)

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/23/2026 at 10:34 PM (post #61)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 10:22 PM (post #57)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 9:22 PM (post #50)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 2:00 PM (post #26)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 10:07 AM (post #20)

Alright, one of you visited me last night. I know who you are and you know who you are. Confess or be lynched.

that would be me.

And pray tell what you did

I used a doctor ability on you.

Character and justification?

I'm not buying this.

Originally Posted by Kohai on 9/23/2026 at 11:12 PM (post #65)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/23/2026 at 11:01 PM (post #63)

As I said earlier the justification and character makes zero sense. I’m never claiming my character as this only helps scum further. We’ve already had too many claims IMO

Can you explain why claiming your character would help scum? You've already role claimed, in what way could your character be worse than claiming your role?

Because scum are only provided with 1 fake role or character claim. THe more character claims we get the more it helps scum narrow the pool

As someone who currently thinks your behaviorally town, man, this isn't a great look. You say that giving away your character claim would be a problem, but you're clearly fine with getting Mag1c's despite him claiming what would theoretically be a role that he could confirm while still alive. Not saying I buy Mag1c's claim either, but this is pretty hypocritical.

noted

I'll leave it here for tonight. If Pie can confirm something here from Mag1c, he should. If he can't, then we're going to need more info from Mag1c. Pretty simple.

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 9:27 PM (post #68)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/23/2026 at 11:05 PM (post #64)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 8:22 PM (post #57)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 9:22 PM (post #50)

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/23/2026 at 2:00 PM (post #26)

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/23/2026 at 10:07 AM (post #20)

Alright, one of you visited me last night. I know who you are and you know who you are. Confess or be lynched.

that would be me.

And pray tell what you did

I used a doctor ability on you.

Why Pie?

Because looking back at DP1, I don't remember you ever really having Pie as a strong townread. You moved away from suspecting him, sure, but I never got any indication from you that you thought he was a power role or something worth protecting..

lol still trying to cast doubt is crazy

First off, my early scumread of Pie is irrelevant; I had him as town in my final thoughts.

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/87/apocalypse-mafia---dp1?page=8&comment_number=240

This post doesn't seem like it.

Second, no one in this game, I felt, had a strong indicator of being a PR worth protecting. I townread Banana, Pie and Thoth. If Thoth had a PR worth protecting, he wouldn't have been so open about his role PM contradicting something in the OP. And Banana and Pie gave no subconscious hints in any of their behavior. Banana was more widely townread, sure, but I chose Pie because he has a history of being fearkilled when town.

So we can safely say that the mafia team does not fear Pie, which points to more experienced players.

I don't think we can safely say that at all. You chose to protect Pie because you thought he was likely to be fearkilled. The fact that he wasn't killed doesn't necessarily tell us that mafia doesn't fear him. They could have preferred another target, been looking for a PR, thought Pie was less likely to be the NK for some other reason, etc. And even if we accept that mafia didn't particularly fear Pie, I'm not seeing how that gets us to "more experienced players." That's another assumption on top of the first one. So I guess my question is: what specifically makes you think Pie surviving is evidence of an experienced mafia team rather than just evidence that they chose a different target?

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/23/2026 at 9:36 PM (post #74)

So... I guess we're just trusting that Mag1c has a role that basically confirmed him to his target? Pie, is that true?

Doctor is a strong claim, I'll admit. If no other protective roles come out, there's a good chance its legit. I still have a problem with the behavior of magic and with a fake claim being on the table, its not entirely out of the question that mafia was given doctor as a fake claim. It's not the first time and definitely wouldn't be the last that we've seen scum claim doctor.

When you get on we need clarity from you about this whole mess.

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/87/apocalypse-mafia---dp1?page=5&comment_number=146

Pie as "Solid Town"

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/87/apocalypse-mafia---dp1?page=6&comment_number=152

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/87/apocalypse-mafia---dp1?page=6&comment_number=157

Magic scum reading directly after ^

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/87/apocalypse-mafia---dp1?page=8&comment_number=212

Says he still townreads him but casting shade.

Idk the progression is and always has felt wierd. Then he goes full "town read on him" and protects him. The protection would have made more sense on one of his more consistent town reads like banana or thoth imo.

Also why would mafia target Pie? His clear scum reads were Vader (1) and Kohai. Unless any of them were mafia, no reason to fear kill Pie unless they knew information

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/24/2026 at 2:17 AM (post #79)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/23/2026 at 9:36 PM (post #74)

So... I guess we're just trusting that Mag1c has a role that basically confirmed him to his target? Pie, is that true?

Doctor is a strong claim, I'll admit. If no other protective roles come out, there's a good chance its legit. I still have a problem with the behavior of magic and with a fake claim being on the table, its not entirely out of the question that mafia was given doctor as a fake claim. It's not the first time and definitely wouldn't be the last that we've seen scum claim doctor.

I'm not in a position to CC him or challenge the likelihood of his claim, and given what he's said so far about Pie effectively confirming his night action, I'm more just intrigued than I am sus of his claim. I'm with you behaviorally, and yes, I've seen more than a few scum claim doctor before.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/24/2026 at 2:19 AM (post #80)

When you get on we need clarity from you about this whole mess.

It'd be a nice place to start and I don't know why Pie would encourage Mag1c to claim if he'd been given evidence during the NP that Mag1c had protected him. This whole situation is puzzling.

Originally Posted by Vader on 9/24/2026 at 7:22 AM (post #82)

Also why would mafia target Pie? His clear scum reads were Vader (1) and Kohai. Unless any of them were mafia, no reason to fear kill Pie unless they knew information

I think the insinuation is that Pie is commonly a fear kill as town rather than that he was doing anything specific this game to warrant the NK, though I don't love that as an explanation for protecting him. It's a pretty weird justification with more solid townreads on the table acknowledged by Mag1c.

I feel like my response to this is more personal strategy to the game of mafia itself rather than to the game and that’s a semantics debate I don’t want to get into. Even then, even if Pie is a fear kill, he was clearly not the top town player here and had some scum reads on him.

The fact that one of the three people sussing me has to be town is crazy.

Originally Posted by Vader on 9/24/2026 at 7:22 AM (post #82)

Also why would mafia target Pie? His clear scum reads were Vader (1) and Kohai. Unless any of them were mafia, no reason to fear kill Pie unless they knew information

Quite a few scum teams would just kill with the threat of him figuring things out.

Originally Posted by Mag1cman on 9/24/2026 at 9:54 AM (post #87)

Originally Posted by Vader on 9/24/2026 at 7:22 AM (post #82)

Also why would mafia target Pie? His clear scum reads were Vader (1) and Kohai. Unless any of them were mafia, no reason to fear kill Pie unless they knew information

Quite a few scum teams would just kill with the threat of him figuring things out.

That being said, there is a point in here that looks good for Kohai.

Watch how Lunatic completely misrepresents me here. He is not town

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/24/2026 at 2:28 AM (post #81)

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/87/apocalypse-mafia---dp1?page=5&comment_number=146

Pie as "Solid Town"

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/87/apocalypse-mafia---dp1?page=6&comment_number=152

One of two posts he says I’m scumreading Pie, and I have Pie as a townread in this post.

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/87/apocalypse-mafia---dp1?page=6&comment_number=157

Magic scum reading directly after ^

I literally have him as toss up here. Not a scumread.

Ignores the context of 156, where I noted a possible scum slip on Pie.

The reason being I could see one reason the possible scum slip wasn’t one.

Pie gave that exact explanation and the issue was resolved which I explained here

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/87/apocalypse-mafia---dp1?page=8&comment_number=216

Which lunatic left out

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/87/apocalypse-mafia---dp1?page=8&comment_number=212

This is me just putting pressure on him to show up, not a scumread. I posted the same thing a second time later, with the same idea.

Says he still townreads him but casting shade.

And then he conveniently leaves out:

https://www.debatecraft.com/mafia/c/active-games/posts/87/apocalypse-mafia---dp1?page=8&comment_number=223

These were my final real thoughts on Pie.

Idk the progression is and always has felt wierd. Then he goes full "town read on him" and protects him. The protection would have made more sense on one of his more consistent town reads like banana or thoth imo.

yes, I was suspicious of him early, and I did have a moment where a possible scum slip on my mind, but setting that aside, I mostly defended Pie. Why wouldn’t I doctor him? I already explained why I chose him over the other two. Banana and Pie was a closer decision, Thoth was obviously not going to be my pick.

let’s get Lunatic’s claim. I’ll help you get Kohai’s if you help me with this.