Apocalypse Mafia - DP3

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/28/2026 at 9:26 PM (post #178)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/28/2026 at 4:13 PM (post #165)

I've gone back through the Pie/Kohai stuff and I keep coming back to the same thing: I think these two could very easily be partners.

The DP1 fight looks way better as distancing to me now. Pie jumps on Kohai, Kohai fires right back, and suddenly you've got this nice little "look, we're obviously fighting" dynamic between them. But neither one actually needs to go all the way with it. Pie gets credit for pushing scum, Kohai gets to look like he's defending himself. Pretty fucking convenient.

And look at where we are now. Kohai is sitting on my green while also telling everyone that my green might not mean shit because GF exists. Like... pick one lol. If my result is unreliable, then why are you using it to take yourself out of the POE?

Then he gets to sit there and point at me, Vader, Whiteflame, whatever, while he's basically considered untouchable. That's a hell of a position for scum to be in.

I'm not saying "they fought in DP1, so they're partners." That's lazy as shit. I'm saying the whole progression makes sense if that fight was manufactured separation.

Especially if we lynch pie and if Pie flips scum, Kohai is absolutely the first person I'm looking at. I don't think we should keep giving him a free pass because the checks are convenient for him.

I don’t blame you for bringing this back up. I should’ve listened to Mag1c when he called out your shitty logic. You guys really have no choice besides pushing Kohai/Pie

I wasn’t even set on pie being your partner til he started making it obvious by discrediting me and my results directly after using them to confirm himself and then blatantly siding with you today. Mafia just need one mislynch so you guys have to try and convince supa that is me wf at any rate possible. He can’t risk you being lynched and going into mylo alone against either of us, he knows he can’t get the mislynch without you lol

I wasn’t set on kohai being your partner*

Not pie lol

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/29/2026 at 1:18 AM (post #180)

Does a self visit count as a visit for your role? Say if kohai lawyered himself the night you visited him would you see him move? Sorry if you answered this already.

You know, I didn’t think to ask this question. Based on what I’ve been told so far - that if I used my role to self-visit and I’m the only one to visit me, that counts as just 1 - I would assume that visiting someone else who visits themselves would give me a count of 2, just the same as if they visited no one. The role functions by number of points of contact, and self contact (keep your mind out of the gutter!) doesn’t appear increase the number.

Just verified with Bullish. The count would be 2.

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/29/2026 at 5:57 AM (post #184)

Just verified with Bullish. The count would be 2.

Alright if he is scum lawyer, then you would have to be scum with him, which I don't neccesarily buy why you would tie yourself with him. If hes scum he is basically just a godfather. I guess it's possible pie is a redirector and redirected me or something too. Not sure if he picked up on me being cop. Hmm...

I feel more confident in Kohai being scum than anything. If we lost cause of it, well I don’t mind taking the blunt. If the are town and it’s Pie/Luna or WF/Pie then I think it’s just a well executed game and bus. If it’s WF/Luna, then it is just well played out at this point. I can’t let Kohai get away with some of the shit to be honest with you especially when a Vanilla exists and their primarily served as a Vanilla. Both sides make a compelling case but fmpov, I just don’t see the logic in any of those options over Kohai who has consistent scum tells in this game and behavior is off. my vote is going to be Kohai but want to check time

VTL Kohai

If I am wrong, I don’t mind taking the L on this. But I just can’t be convinced right now on Pie or Whiteflame or Luna being more scum than Kohai to this point. Maybe I’m stuck in my head but I’ve read the game and been keeping up and doing my own thought progressions and reads. Every one just doesn’t lead me to a scenario where Kohai is town.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/29/2026 at 8:42 AM (post #185)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/29/2026 at 5:57 AM (post #184)

Just verified with Bullish. The count would be 2.

Alright if he is scum lawyer, then you would have to be scum with him, which I don't neccesarily buy why you would tie yourself with him. If hes scum he is basically just a godfather. I guess it's possible pie is a redirector and redirected me or something too. Not sure if he picked up on me being cop. Hmm...

If Pie is scum, I'd be surprised if he didn't pick up on you being Cop last DP. I was trying to be as unclear as I could about why I was townreading you at the time, but it took a bit more to get Mag1c onboard for that one. At this point, the only way I can see you being scum is if you're precisely scum with Vader 2.0 and that you received the Cop fake claim (which would also have given you the opportunity for the Miller claim), but I'd also have to believe that you've been pretty light with such a strong fake claim to buy that. I think you'd take more advantage of it if given that kind of opportunity.

They haven’t even made any through tuck contributions on reads at all and haven’t developed analysis. It’s just so minimalistic and plain and the claim with hesitance makes me think it was a way to buy time

Originally Posted by Vader on 9/29/2026 at 9:02 AM (post #187)

VTL Kohai

If I am wrong, I don’t mind taking the L on this. But I just can’t be convinced right now on Pie or Whiteflame or Luna being more scum than Kohai to this point. Maybe I’m stuck in my head but I’ve read the game and been keeping up and doing my own thought progressions and reads. Every one just doesn’t lead me to a scenario where Kohai is town.

Fair enough. I'm leaning more towards Kohai as scum as well, so I can see where you're coming from. He hasn't been my focus for obvious reasons. I'll leave my vote off for the moment, give Kohai a chance to get on and say something at least. You can take that however you like.

I am really thinking its kohai and pie. This rules out me and whiteflame and me also as we could have coordinated a quickhammer if we were the scum team. Literally no reason not to if we were both scum right now.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/29/2026 at 9:19 AM (post #191)

I am really thinking its kohai and pie. This rules out me and whiteflame and me also as we could have coordinated a quickhammer if we were the scum team. Literally no reason not to if we were both scum right now.

You know he's right. How's that theory about a scum Luna/WF team looking right now?

vtl kohai

VTL Kohai

GG

Lol, was it seriously Luna/Pie? Did not see that coming.

If so, well played, just kind of baffled.

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/29/2026 at 7:40 AM (post #196)

Lol, was it seriously Luna/Pie? Did not see that coming.

Yeah lol. I got the whiteflame curse. 3x scum in a row :/

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/29/2026 at 9:43 AM (post #198)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/29/2026 at 7:40 AM (post #196)

Lol, was it seriously Luna/Pie? Did not see that coming.

Yeah lol. I got the whiteflame curse. 3x scum in a row :/

Crazy. Someone's going to have to explain to me how we rolled a Miller this game because, as far as I can tell, there is no role that's affected by it.

I guess maybe the whole Athena thing was the actual Cop, but it's weird to include a Miller for a role someone might get.

Fwiw, even if we had lynched Pie correctly this DP, there was no way I was lynching Luna next DP. I had assumed one of you had to be real with Vader's Miller claim. You guys had our number.

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/29/2026 at 8:44 AM (post #199)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/29/2026 at 9:43 AM (post #198)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/29/2026 at 7:40 AM (post #196)

Lol, was it seriously Luna/Pie? Did not see that coming.

Yeah lol. I got the whiteflame curse. 3x scum in a row :/

Crazy. Someone's going to have to explain to me how we rolled a Miller this game because, as far as I can tell, there is no role that's affected by it.

Has to be the case cause Dreamer was the fake role

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/29/2026 at 7:45 AM (post #200)

I guess maybe the whole Athena thing was the actual Cop, but it's weird to include a Miller for a role someone might get.

Yeah my guess is that magic had a cop in one of his roles. I went in to today expecting you to CC me as cop, the whole plan was for me to 1 v 1 pie, lose, and he goes to mylo with town cred. You were supposed to be the cop. I thought you were setting me up as the cop last day phase because you were trying some big brain tactic to CC me because you really were the cop. My mind was blown when there was no cop CC lmao. I was supposed to die!

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/29/2026 at 8:46 AM (post #201)

Fwiw, even if we had lynched Pie correctly this DP, there was no way I was lynching Luna next DP. I had assumed one of you had to be real with Vader's Miller claim. You guys had our number.

Ya that was the backup. As long as I wasn’t lynched, we had it in the bag. Me flipping Lawyer and Luna not dying would’ve outted him

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/29/2026 at 9:46 AM (post #202)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/29/2026 at 8:44 AM (post #199)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/29/2026 at 9:43 AM (post #198)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/29/2026 at 7:40 AM (post #196)

Lol, was it seriously Luna/Pie? Did not see that coming.

Yeah lol. I got the whiteflame curse. 3x scum in a row :/

Crazy. Someone's going to have to explain to me how we rolled a Miller this game because, as far as I can tell, there is no role that's affected by it.

Has to be the case cause Dreamer was the fake role

Yeah, that's a weird setup. If we'd lynched Vader 2.0 last DP, that would have confirmed his Miller and made me all the more certain one of you was real. The fact that Mag1c's other potential role choices didn't show basically meant we were in the dark about the existence of any alignment investigative role. Not blaming you guys for that (well played and smart to choose two alignment investigatives, taking full advantage of the opportunity), but this was almost a guaranteed loss for town given apparent role confirmations the moment Mag1c picked the Doc.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 9/29/2026 at 9:47 AM (post #203)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/29/2026 at 7:45 AM (post #200)

I guess maybe the whole Athena thing was the actual Cop, but it's weird to include a Miller for a role someone might get.

Yeah my guess is that magic had a cop in one of his roles. I went in to today expecting you to CC me as cop, the whole plan was for me to 1 v 1 pie, lose, and he goes to mylo with town cred. You were supposed to be the cop. I thought you were setting me up as the cop last day phase because you were trying some big brain tactic to CC me because you really were the cop. My mind was blown when there was no cop CC lmao. I was supposed to die!

That makes sense. Really thought you were the Cop going into the end of the last DP just by POE.

Official Vote Count

Kohai (3/3) - Vader (2), lunatic, pie

Not voting: whiteflame, Kohai,

Kohai has been lynched, he was town. Mafia wins.

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 9/29/2026 at 9:47 AM (post #204)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/29/2026 at 8:46 AM (post #201)

Fwiw, even if we had lynched Pie correctly this DP, there was no way I was lynching Luna next DP. I had assumed one of you had to be real with Vader's Miller claim. You guys had our number.

Ya that was the backup. As long as I wasn’t lynched, we had it in the bag. Me flipping Lawyer and Luna not dying would’ve outted him

That makes sense, though even if you had been flipped, man... it would have been tough lynching Luna, particularly if you guys had killed Vader during the night. That Miller flip would have been impossible to ignore.

Anyway, like I said, well played. I'll save more detailed thoughts on the setup for the endgame, but I do think we were almost doomed to lose after a certain point.

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 9/29/2026 at 7:53 AM (post #209)

Anyway, like I said, well played. I'll save more detailed thoughts on the setup for the endgame, but I do think we were almost doomed to lose after a certain point.

Yeah maybe, though our lawyer seemed almost useless in hindsight. Also Banana's role could have screwed us too, we got lucky taking that out. Yours could have been bad if you had targeted pie too.