Epstein's Island Mafia DP2

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/9/2026 at 6:49 PM (post #59)

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/9/2026 at 7:28 PM (post #54)

So just for the ping could you reveal your role and flavor? I feel both help solve the game and you have no reason to withhold either at this point. Posting this way so you get a notification.

If there are at least a few people who agree that I should do this, I will. Like I said, I see some value in keeping that info hidden, but given that I don’t have a role anymore, I’m fine with claiming if seeking that information has any kind of broad support. Luna said no, you’re saying yes, so I’m in a holding pattern atm.

My thoughts are pretty simple here. Your flavor? No reason not to claim given your reasoning was not to claim because you felt it would reveal your role which you claim to no longer have. Thats pretty absolutely a zero loss with benefit to the town given that we know flavor is AI. Kinda feels weird you would not recognize that and even ask people about if you should or should not reveal given that.

For your role- I also feel like this helps game solve. A Vannializer + a Blackmailer feels super strong. This is doubled down on by the fact Shining had a negative utility that gave scum even more information and thats even on top of scum having an insta-win time.

With that in mind let me ask you- how do you feel about Mag1cs claim? And really.. Why in the fuck would you not flavor claim at the very least?

I will also mention it is of note that Mafia decided to kill within the pool of flavor claims. Reinforces my thought that Mafia are worried about flavor hunting.

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/9/2026 at 7:58 PM (post #61)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/9/2026 at 6:49 PM (post #59)

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/9/2026 at 7:28 PM (post #54)

So just for the ping could you reveal your role and flavor? I feel both help solve the game and you have no reason to withhold either at this point. Posting this way so you get a notification.

If there are at least a few people who agree that I should do this, I will. Like I said, I see some value in keeping that info hidden, but given that I don’t have a role anymore, I’m fine with claiming if seeking that information has any kind of broad support. Luna said no, you’re saying yes, so I’m in a holding pattern atm.

My thoughts are pretty simple here. Your flavor? No reason not to claim given your reasoning was not to claim because you felt it would reveal your role which you claim to no longer have. Thats pretty absolutely a zero loss with benefit to the town given that we know flavor is AI. Kinda feels weird you would not recognize that and even ask people about if you should or should not reveal given that.

I started the DP stating that I was ready and willing to claim. If the value is there for me to claim at this point and enough people agree it’s worthwhile, I will. I have, however, already stated what I think is lost by claiming. You can disagree with that, you can say that the value of not claiming isn’t worthwhile, but you’re not the first to wade into this discussion and yours is not the only perspective on the issue. If you find it weird that I’m asking, that doesn’t really bother me.

For your role- I also feel like this helps game solve. A Vannializer + a Blackmailer feels super strong. This is doubled down on by the fact Shining had a negative utility that gave scum even more information and thats even on top of scum having an insta-win time.

Fair points, I think the balance looks a little odd and I’ve said as much myself, though it was Magoroth, not Shining, who had a negative utility role. Nonetheless, I don’t think my claiming will function as a game solve, whether you believe me or not.

With that in mind let me ask you- how do you feel about Mag1cs claim? And really.. Why in the fuck would you not flavor claim at the very least?

I’ve already explained by I’m reticent to claim. You can take that answer or leave it, it’s going to be the same: flavor and role claims both narrow the window of plausible fake claims scum could give. I don’t think Mag1c’s given a claim yet. He’s claimed to have been Blackmailed, that’s all I’ve seen.

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/9/2026 at 7:52 PM (post #60)

Putting this to everyone: should I claim or no? There’s value in the information, but at least for the sake of preventing fake claims, there’s value in keeping it hidden as well. I’ll give away this much: my character is going to be pretty obvious for this theme.

I think there is value in the claim and us getting the information

Originally Posted by Thoth on 10/9/2026 at 4:32 PM (post #49)

I just read up and have some commentary to make, but a few things to do in real life first.

Heads up: I am straight in the path of Hurricane Isaias, so there is a decent chance I will lose power for a while. I should still be able to play through cellular connection.

Same here.

I hope you stay safe.

This weekend is gonna be brutal

I mean, sure. But you are missing the part I am critical about here-

Yesterday you never expressed you were worried about holding your flavor because it gives scum info. On top of that. Wouldent that suggest you suspect the unclaimed people? I do not see any of that from you. And then Scum have 2 asks to make their own claims with only 2 players. That feels like a lot. I would have zero problem working with that myself. Its not like Epstein has a small list of people involved or that anyone in this game is super familiar with everyone thats involved.

For some video game or anime or TV show people will probably know everything there is to know on the subject. That is just not the case here and suddenly your having concerns you did not have before. I would have expected you to snap claim your flavor. Claiming your role? I could see reason to hold that back. I wont say way but I get that part.

But to follow up. If you do think that its scum who has not claimed and just never said it who do you think it is? This is a pretty small game after all.

Originally Posted by NoAhLeEcLaRk on 10/9/2026 at 8:25 PM (post #66)

Wait, what are you asking?

Now that I’m Vanillaized, my role is inactive. I can full claim my character and role without giving scum the opportunity to manipulate/avoid my role, though claiming would tell scum that my character and role are in the game, making their fake claims easier to craft. Helz has already given the case for why this information could be valuable. So I’m asking whether I should give it and, if so, whether that should just be character or both character and role.

I will also say, when I popped into the game is when I posted and I pretty much immediately called out my flavor. I have not bothered to look at when I was notified of what but it would suggest I would have had to be told in advance about my role and alignment and have a chat to coordinate or else I would have had to just go for a hipshot and roll the dice of a counter claim

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/9/2026 at 8:26 PM (post #67)

I mean, sure. But you are missing the part I am critical about here-

Yesterday you never expressed you were worried about holding your flavor because it gives scum info. On top of that. Wouldent that suggest you suspect the unclaimed people? I do not see any of that from you. And then Scum have 2 asks to make their own claims with only 2 players. That feels like a lot. I would have zero problem working with that myself. Its not like Epstein has a small list of people involved or that anyone in this game is super familiar with everyone thats involved.

What part of “I don’t want to claim because it’s easy to identify my role based on my character” was unclear? It was how I responded to your request to trade claims. That implies I was concerned about giving scum info. And yes, it suggests that at least one person without a claim could be scum. I can’t dismiss that. I was wrong about Magoroth, so now I’m reevaluating my reads. I don’t get how that’s odd, nor is it odd to avoid giving scum pertinent info that could still be used for character or role claims.

For some video game or anime or TV show people will probably know everything there is to know on the subject. That is just not the case here and suddenly your having concerns you did not have before. I would have expected you to snap claim your flavor. Claiming your role? I could see reason to hold that back. I wont say way but I get that part.

Again, unclear on why you think I didn’t express these concerns prior to now. You can expect whatever you want, but I made my concerns clear last DP. The fact that scum can’t use my role to their advantage anymore changes the calculus somewhat, but not entirely.

But to follow up. If you do think that its scum who has not claimed and just never said it who do you think it is? This is a pretty small game after all.

I haven’t come up with a new set of reads this DP. I’ll have to sit down and re-read much of last DP with the context of the flops before I do. If it’s odd to you that I haven’t directly sussed someone who hasn’t claimed yet, so be it, but at this point I’m not dismissing anyone.

UNVOTE

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/9/2026 at 7:37 PM (post #70)

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/9/2026 at 8:26 PM (post #67)

I mean, sure. But you are missing the part I am critical about here-

Yesterday you never expressed you were worried about holding your flavor because it gives scum info. On top of that. Wouldent that suggest you suspect the unclaimed people? I do not see any of that from you. And then Scum have 2 asks to make their own claims with only 2 players. That feels like a lot. I would have zero problem working with that myself. Its not like Epstein has a small list of people involved or that anyone in this game is super familiar with everyone thats involved.

What part of “I don’t want to claim because it’s easy to identify my role based on my character” was unclear? It was how I responded to your request to trade claims. That implies I was concerned about giving scum info. And yes, it suggests that at least one person without a claim could be scum. I can’t dismiss that. I was wrong about Magoroth, so now I’m reevaluating my reads. I don’t get how that’s odd, nor is it odd to avoid giving scum pertinent info that could still be used for character or role claims.

For some video game or anime or TV show people will probably know everything there is to know on the subject. That is just not the case here and suddenly your having concerns you did not have before. I would have expected you to snap claim your flavor. Claiming your role? I could see reason to hold that back. I wont say way but I get that part.

Again, unclear on why you think I didn’t express these concerns prior to now. You can expect whatever you want, but I made my concerns clear last DP. The fact that scum can’t use my role to their advantage anymore changes the calculus somewhat, but not entirely.

But to follow up. If you do think that its scum who has not claimed and just never said it who do you think it is? This is a pretty small game after all.

I haven’t come up with a new set of reads this DP. I’ll have to sit down and re-read much of last DP with the context of the flops before I do. If it’s odd to you that I haven’t directly sussed someone who hasn’t claimed yet, so be it, but at this point I’m not dismissing anyone.

The odd part comes in with your reasoning to not flavor claiming D1 being it would reveal your role. Now there is this new concern about giving scum 1 thing they could avoid and not have a CC on. Sure. Valid. "if" you thought the scum is in the non-claimed people. Which you have not voiced. And that is the inconstant factor I am poking at.

Either you should be pushing very specific people for not claiming and sussing them -or- you should be snap claiming your flavor. This middle ground is just odd and inconsistent.

Why was my comment marked offensive and why did I get logged out?

The logout thing happens to us all. I have no idea how the offensive thing works. I think its a dumb system to begin with but its nonsensical to me whats flagged.

Yesterday you never expressed you were worried about holding your flavor because it gives scum info. On top of that. Wouldent that suggest you suspect the unclaimed people? I do not see any of that from you. And then Scum have 2 asks to make their own claims with only 2 players. That feels like a lot. I would have zero problem working with that myself. Its not like Epstein has a small list of people involved or that anyone in this game is super familiar with everyone thats involved.

That first point still stands here. I believe giving away my character will give away my role, which means it gives away information that could help inform scum on available role claims. Again, just because they can’t manipulate/avoid my role anymore doesn’t mean that information doesn’t matter.

And again, it suggests I’m considering a broader set of players than I was last DP. I still don’t see what’s wrong with that.

I understand that scum may already have fake claims secured. That doesn’t mean I’m going to make it easier for them if they don’t.

Either you should be pushing very specific people for not claiming and sussing them -or- you should be snap claiming your flavor. This middle ground is just odd and inconsistent.

We clearly have very different perspectives on this.

Sense you are here any thoughts on the situation?

Basic breakdown being I am calling out that a Blackmailer (role that prevents chat) + Vanalizer (role that removes night actions) + scum having an insta-win timeline is imbalanced.

I also claim that a Blackmailer is a role thats considered 'bastard' (Something thats suppose to be declared before a game starts)

Then there is WF being weird about revealing their flavor claim. D1 it was because they said it would reveal their role. Today they claim to not have a role (ability) anymore.

Any thoughts?

Originally Posted by NoAhLeEcLaRk on 10/9/2026 at 8:45 PM (post #73)

Why was my comment marked offensive and why did I get logged out?

Sometimes the app logs you out. I think if I recall correctly it auto logs you out every 7 days.

But I’m just done arguing this. If Kohai and Helz want my character, I’ll just give it. I’m DJT.

Originally Posted by NoAhLeEcLaRk on 10/9/2026 at 8:45 PM (post #73)

Why was my comment marked offensive and why did I get logged out?

I fixed this. I think somehow your entire profile got marked offensive. I corrected it so it is no longer marked offensive

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/9/2026 at 8:54 PM (post #79)

But I’m just done arguing this. If Kohai and Helz want my character, I’ll just give it. I’m DJT.

Hmm so 3 world leader claims. Interesting

Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/9/2026 at 8:55 PM (post #81)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/9/2026 at 8:54 PM (post #79)

But I’m just done arguing this. If Kohai and Helz want my character, I’ll just give it. I’m DJT.

Hmm so 3 world leader claims. Interesting

Did mention that I was a world leader last DP.

We clearly have very different perspectives on this.

I suppose so. Given either flavor or role reveals could help solve right now in a huge way and the critical town role has already flipped I just do not see it.

If nothing else you and the handful of other no-claims should have greater thoughts about the potential split. We know its absolutely AI and figuring out that split is a major factor with later claimers being more sus in the situation.

If it helps I will flatly claim I do not have any function that touches on using peoples flavor.

Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/9/2026 at 7:55 PM (post #81)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/9/2026 at 8:54 PM (post #79)

But I’m just done arguing this. If Kohai and Helz want my character, I’ll just give it. I’m DJT.

Hmm so 3 world leader claims. Interesting

Wasn't gona say it but D1 they did say they were a world leader after I pointed out we have a potential split between world leaders and entertainers. Kinda hoped they would forget they said that and I could call a slip but I could just be wrong about them.

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/9/2026 at 8:57 PM (post #84)

If it helps I will flatly claim I do not have any function that touches on using peoples flavor.

Sure.

Magoroth died last night and was voting Thoth.

I am so unsure of myself this game

Originally Posted by Helz on 10/9/2026 at 8:58 PM (post #85)

Originally Posted by Kohai on 10/9/2026 at 7:55 PM (post #81)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 10/9/2026 at 8:54 PM (post #79)

But I’m just done arguing this. If Kohai and Helz want my character, I’ll just give it. I’m DJT.

Hmm so 3 world leader claims. Interesting

Wasn't gona say it but D1 they did say they were a world leader after I pointed out we have a potential split between world leaders and entertainers. Kinda hoped they would forget they said that and I could call a slip but I could just be wrong about them.

Well we have world leaders and one entertainer (Michael Jackson) that’s town. So I don’t think that’s the split there.

If the split was somehow between world leaders and entertainers of some sort then Noah would be outted.

Btw. I do hope someone views the links I gave related to Mag1c. Kinda seems like they like to FoS without explanation. I will now confirm I did not visit anyone last night so there is no way they could be any sort of tracker/lookout/detective and such.