Retro Mafia - DP2

More events 😭 Bro I just got done with the MU anniversary mash

Anyway, Whiteflame is town. I couldn't really get a good read on him on our mason DM and we haven't really been talking, but we did share our characters. I think if Whiteflame outed what Lu atics character is, then hes town. Although, he could still be scum.

Current lead is 95,754

Wow, been a quiet game so far. I was expecting to have to a bit to catch up on, but there hasn't been much, huh?

I don't like RT's claim. Beloved Princess is inherently a scummy claim. It's like Super Saint in that deflects lynches while the variant also provides a convenient excuse for staying alive late in the game. Though I will grant that it does seem trendy on DART/DC right now. However, in terms of behavior, I'm still not crazy about RT. The sudden hammer surprised me, idk why Luna would tell him to do that, and he's dead now so we just have to take him at his word for that.

Still kinda busy, will share more thoughts in a bit.

Don’t care for the claim either.

anyway Imma take today off. I need a day off from mafia. I’ll get the snake thing done at some point and I’ll be posting tomorrow

if anyone wants to know how the 200-player MafiaUniverse Anniversary Mash game ended: LINK

So, to move things along, I'm just going to say that I know that Vader didn't get a chance to use his Mason. It took a while before we could get a sustained conversation going because he spent much of the first DP busy IRL. It's a bit of a towntell to me, since I don't think his scum partner(s) would have stayed quiet if he hadn't used it. I haven't asked him for much information so far on his role.

Since I've gotten a good deal more insight into characters than most, I'll just say that I thought the theme split was very basic, but my townreads tell me otherwise. I strongly townread Mharman, and I have good reason to believe that Ragnar is also town. There is a world in which I see them as a scum team, but that seems unlikely. From the limited conversation we have had thusfar, I'd say both Shining (Earth) and Vader are townleans.

That leaves Casey, Pie, RT and REF. Behaviorally, I have some reason to buy Pie as town, though it's mainly because I think he's been pretty consistent in his efforts at keeping the game organized and scumhunting. Seen him do both as scum, so it's not a strong read. So I think there's at least one scum between Casey, RT and Rex.

RT's claim definitely sets me on edge, seems like it's there chiefly to dissuade a lynch and explain why he'd survive NPs. He didn't say he was the Beloved Princess, he just says that he travels through time, which makes some sense with Chrono Trigger. Just because the train makes sense, though, doesn't mean I'm townreading him for it. Don't like that he claimed that quickly when all the value in his role disappears the moment it's claimed.

Rex's response to RT's claim confused me, since he seemed to be presenting lynching RT as a win-win regardless of whether he's telling the truth, which is not accurate. His contributions so far just haven't been enough for me to form an opinion on him otherwise.

I'm pretty null on Casey. Questioning of people's reads is all fine and dandy, but the lack of reads from them make it difficult to see what Casey's perspective actually is. They've shared thoughts on RT and I can understand targeting Ragnar, so that's a start and I'll let Casey cook with the other reads since they've been more forthcoming.

Of these three, I need more from Rex. A set of reads would be a good start, especially since he got a piece of Pie.

VTL Rex

Rex's response to RT's claim confused me, since he seemed to be presenting lynching RT as a win-win regardless of whether he's telling the truth, which is not accurate. His contributions so far just haven't been enough for me to form an opinion on him otherwise.

Read RT's original claim:

If I'm lynched during the day phase the next day phase is skipped. If mafia kills me in the night the next day phase is skipped. Basically it is in everyone's best interest in keeping me alive.

He mistyped, saying that we would skip a DP if he was lynched or if he was NKd. I said we should just lynch him, because if we don't then scum will definitely NK him and we'll skip a DP anyway, and because I find the claim sus. He later clarified that if he's NK'd an NP will be skipped, not a DP. I still think it's an incredibly suspicious claim, and the fact that he flubbed it makes it even worse. I also find it scummy that he quickhammered, saying in the last post that Luna told him to do it, then Luna winds up dead, conveniently unable to corroborate this. Then he's also withholding info on Luna's full claim, which is asus because there's no conceivable reason why town shouldn't have that info. It should have been in the janitor'd flip to begin with. Overall I find him very suspicious and it'd be hard to budge me off of him as a lynch target.

If we have a vig I'd say NK him, otherwise he's my top pick. Most of my other reads are null (lean scum on Supa for innactivity, lean town on Casey for making reasonable, pro-town points that I had thought but hadn't posted), aside from Pie whom I town read for his play and the reads that I've bounced off him in our PM.

do you have any good argument as to why a mafioso would try to out the survivor?

Responding to this now - fair point, but I think it became pretty obvious pretty quickly that Anonymous was probably going to be the DP1 lynch yesterday, and I think it was probably solvable that he was either lying for some strange reason or just completely misunderstanding this game when he said he was from the 16th century. It was so far outside of what everyone else was claiming, and I don't think any game from that long ago can really be considered 'retro' per se. Like at that point, it's older than retro, it's just old.

That being said, I will say that that Survivor question was more likely to come from town you than scum you, so you're not in my scum radar anymore for the time being.

Also I stopped scumreading you after you said you were doing a reaction test with your vote on Rex. It fit with your playstyle and I was willing to believe you were genuine about that. I meant to say that DP1 but I forgot to mention it.

He mistyped, saying that we would skip a DP if he was lynched or if he was NKd. I said we should just lynch him, because if we don't then scum will definitely NK him and we'll skip a DP anyway, and because I find the claim sus. He later clarified that if he's NK'd an NP will be skipped, not a DP. I still think it's an incredibly suspicious claim, and the fact that he flubbed it makes it even worse. I also find it scummy that he quickhammered, saying in the last post that Luna told him to do it, then Luna winds up dead, conveniently unable to corroborate this. Then he's also withholding info on Luna's full claim, which is asus because there's no conceivable reason why town shouldn't have that info. It should have been in the janitor'd flip to begin with. Overall I find him very suspicious and it'd be hard to budge me off of him as a lynch target.

If we have a vig I'd say NK him, otherwise he's my top pick. Most of my other reads are null (lean scum on Supa for innactivity, lean town on Casey for making reasonable, pro-town points that I had thought but hadn't posted), aside from Pie whom I town read for his play and the reads that I've bounced off him in our PM.

I get that RT's claim is sus. I understand sussing it. My confusion is with the statement that we should lynch him before scum had a chance to NK him. Even with the original writing of the role, if we had some other reason to townread him (just to be clear, I don't see one right now), I think the notion that it's functionally the same for town to sacrifice a lynch to achieve the same effect as scum using an NK for the same effect doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I agree that I mistrust the claim for a number of reasons, I just don't like that your response to the claim was, in part, that we're going to lose the DP anyway, so why not sacrifice the lynch while we're at it?

I do appreciate the somewhat abbreviated reads, though, so I'll leave off the pressure for now.

Unvote

Has everyone said who they selected for the Mason?

1. Vader - None
2. Mag1c - Whiteflame 
3. Casey - Ragnar
4. RT - Lunatic
5. Whiteflame - Vader
6. REF - Pie
7. Shining - Whiteflame
8. Ragnar - Whiteflame
9. Pie - Casey

Lunatic - Whiteflame

Icon - None

—————————————

1. Vader - ??? - ???
2. Mag1c - ??? - ???
3. Casey - ??? - ???
4. RT - Chrono Trigger - Beloved Princess
5. Whiteflame - Kirby - ???
6. REF - ??? - ???
7. Shining - ??? - ???
8. Ragnar - ??? - ???
9. Pie - ??? - ???

Lunatic - Super Mario Bros - ???

Icon - Frogger - Compulsive Hider

Ok so the POE idea I have is as follows:

Scum are already in a PM with their faction. So they chose a townie or a possible TP with their Mason ability to work out more info/help their play. That means we can eliminate all the current combos of 2 as scum pairings:

Mharman/WF

Casey/Ragnar

Theist/Luna

Whiteflame/Vader

REF/Pie

Earth/Whiteflame

Ragnar/Whiteflame

Pie/Casey

Also, because WF is with 4 people right now, he’s far less likely to be scum because he could only be scum with Pie/Casey/REF/Theist.

As we get closer and closer to MYLO/LYLO, the solve becomes easier. Mikal and scum probably never even thought of this strategy and I don’t blame them.

Anyway, Whiteflame is town. I couldn't really get a good read on him on our mason DM and we haven't really been talking, but we did share our characters. I think if Whiteflame outed what Lu atics character is, then hes town. Although, he could still be scum.

This makes no sense. What are you trying to say?

Hello everyone. Catching up at the moment to the DP.

Sorry for my lack of activity, week has been a lot busier than expected and with the lack of true mobile compatibility, checking in at work is a bit more difficult

Tbh I don't think you are town locked at all and I honestly think you are more scummy at this point. I think you likely just baited a new player into claiming survivor to out himself. I also felt you were way to eager to push this DP than I've normally seen. If anything this makes you even more scummy fmpov

Also going to mechanic SOP that I did not choose anyone. I didn't realize that you had to choose before Dp1 ended. I probably would've chosen Pie if I would've looking back at DP but right now I am in a PM with Whiteflame at the moment. I've given him my thoughts on some of the players as well after skimming

I have my skeptism on RT at the moment. I think that jumping the gun on a lynch within a full day is a bit opportunistic fmpov. It also doesn't help that Luna was killed as well. I don't know how that mechanically works because in all honesty I think it's inherent nature to town read your mason unless you come off as genuinely dishonest

But also in a game like this, I really don't think that it would've been optimal to kill Luna. The FoS is obviously on RT for the quickhammer on Icon with a day left. You would likely want to leave Luna alive as even he would likely agree that's a bad mechanic and I don't think he would've done that even as scum. So the obvious choice as scum to frame him a bit so it's a sub optimal play. Plus is RT killing the only person that can potentially give town cred???

Idk I think that hammer is sus af but at the same time I just don't think RT would kill their mason like that

I do not love this claim at all

I'm usually really good at spotting Barney as scum but for some reason my radar is a bit off. I have some FoS because I feel like a decent amount of posts have been a bit fluffy but I also know he sometimes tends to makes jokes about himself being scum when he's town a lot of the time. It's kind of a weird pattern. He usually tends to hide back and make fluff minimal reads as scum.

Right now my reads are as follows

Whiteflame - slight town. I feel like his insights he has given me feel genuine and I don't think there is a reason he'd be lying about anything he has told me. He came off as genuine IMO

Ragnar - Slight town. I think his behavior is pretty remiss of his town behavior. Witty and aluding to being scum by making jokes but not actually scum

RT - I don't love RT's hammer within 24hrs and that honestly pings my FOS, but again I can't get over the NK on him though. It just doesn't make any real sense on why he would kill the only person that could validate his town cred. There are a few options but that hammer and aggressiveness stir me an FoS. I also don't love the claim

Mharman - I dislike Mharman. Whiteflame and I disagree with this but Mharman's initial reaction to saying he's town locked is not just incorrect, but really scummy and honestly nothing like I've seen him as town. Usually he's analytical and focused on catching scum but he seems off

Pie - slight town. I just think his questions asking mods live kind feels town. When scum he usually doesn't do this and just spam pings the host. I feel like it's subtle but it's enough for me to slightly town read.

Everyone else is null at this point

It's also a case of I really don't have that much substance either. Feel like I'm nitpicking behaviors but with DP2 and really no deviations, I am bit reclusive to really hard town read someone

So, to move things along, I'm just going to say that I know that Vader didn't get a chance to use his Mason. It took a while before we could get a sustained conversation going because he spent much of the first DP busy IRL. It's a bit of a towntell to me, since I don't think his scum partner(s) would have stayed quiet if he hadn't used it. I haven't asked him for much information so far on his role.

I actually think it’s null. He could’ve purposely not selected an individual as a strat to hopefully void my plan. But I also think the inactivity itself is null.

Since I've gotten a good deal more insight into characters than most, I'll just say that I thought the theme split was very basic, but my townreads tell me otherwise. I strongly townread Mharman, and I have good reason to believe that Ragnar is also town. There is a world in which I see them as a scum team, but that seems unlikely. From the limited conversation we have had thusfar, I'd say both Shining (Earth) and Vader are townleans. 

I’m curious as to your reason for these reads? Is it behavioral or mechanical?

That leaves Casey, Pie, RT and REF. Behaviorally, I have some reason to buy Pie as town, though it's mainly because I think he's been pretty consistent in his efforts at keeping the game organized and scumhunting. Seen him do both as scum, so it's not a strong read. So I think there's at least one scum between Casey, RT and Rex. 

I’m fine claiming right now as my role is confirmable. I probably should’ve claimed DP1, but I wanted to keep it hidden for a possible scum NK and cause I always die first.

I’m Tetris, and I require one additional vote to be lynched, so basically the Popular Townie. Mikal clarified that I deactivate at MYLO/LYLO.

RT's claim definitely sets me on edge, seems like it's there chiefly to dissuade a lynch and explain why he'd survive NPs. He didn't say he was the Beloved Princess, he just says that he travels through time, which makes some sense with Chrono Trigger. Just because the train makes sense, though, doesn't mean I'm townreading him for it. Don't like that he claimed that quickly when all the value in his role disappears the moment it's claimed.

I don’t buy it either. Super Mario Pros or something about Princess Peach seems like a better candidate. His play has been erratic at best too

Rex's response to RT's claim confused me, since he seemed to be presenting lynching RT as a win-win regardless of whether he's telling the truth, which is not accurate. His contributions so far just haven't been enough for me to form an opinion on him otherwise.

Ya I’m still null on REF as well.

I'm pretty null on Casey. Questioning of people's reads is all fine and dandy, but the lack of reads from them make it difficult to see what Casey's perspective actually is. They've shared thoughts on RT and I can understand targeting Ragnar, so that's a start and I'll let Casey cook with the other reads since they've been more forthcoming.

I townread Casey still. The play just seems more townie to me than scum Casey

Of these three, I need more from Rex. A set of reads would be a good start, especially since he got a piece of Pie.

VTL Rex

Test post as few people reported mafia posts not working

Still working on fully catching up.

He mistyped, saying that we would skip a DP if he was lynched or if he was NKd. I said we should just lynch him, because if we don't then scum will definitely NK him and we'll skip a DP anyway, and because I find the claim sus. He later clarified that if he's NK'd an NP will be skipped, not a DP. I still think it's an incredibly suspicious claim, and the fact that he flubbed it makes it even worse. I also find it scummy that he quickhammered, saying in the last post that Luna told him to do it, then Luna winds up dead, conveniently unable to corroborate this. Then he's also withholding info on Luna's full claim, which is asus because there's no conceivable reason why town shouldn't have that info. It should have been in the janitor'd flip to begin with. Overall I find him very suspicious and it'd be hard to budge me off of him as a lynch target.

That's not what I claimed. I clarified:

I mis typed. If mafia kills be the next night phase is skipped.

If I die during the day we lose a day phase. If mafia night kill me the mafia loses a night phase.

Honestly, I've seen that claim enough times that I did not even catch the typo; and when it was brought up, it felt like a waste of breath.

I actually think it’s null. He could’ve purposely not selected an individual as a strat to hopefully void my plan. But I also think the inactivity itself is null

Fair. I can only say that his absence seemed genuine and it’s weird for only one member of the scum team to try and void your plan like this.

I’m curious as to your reason for these reads? Is it behavioral or mechanical?

Sure. Mharman’s almost all mechanical, actually had some behavioral reasons to sus him. Ragnar, Vader and Earth are almost entirely behavioral.

I’m Tetris, and I require one additional vote to be lynched, so basically the Popular Townie. Mikal clarified that I deactivate at MYLO/LYLO.

Alright, worth testing at least, though we’ve seen enough Popular scum that it’s not super helpful in figuring alignment.

VTL Pie

I don’t buy it either. Super Mario Pros or something about Princess Peach seems like a better candidate. His play has been erratic at best too

He’s bound to be in PoE the rest of the game at this point. It’ll be that much riskier to lynch him later if he’s telling the truth.

I townread Casey still. The play just seems more townie to me than scum Casey

They're my weakest read in PoE, so I can set that aside for now.

Apologies if anything is off. Also it seems these need to be handled in word and copied over.