Solo Leveling Endgame

Yeah, a good bit of that was on me though. I worked pretty hard to be read exactly as a mixed town read and specifically suspected of being Neutral. Kinda feel like I pulled that off perfectly but it blew up in my face with the timing.

The elimination itself was basically a policy. The fact I openly refused to give a full role claim was a meta issue here. Will be again and again in the same situation to be blunt. I did not see how me giving more details past a 99% role claim did anything at all to solve my slot and kept shoving people to give reasoning and pointing twords my guild chat behavior. While I was intentionally scummy to an extent to insulate myself from night kills and set up for my own personal goal.

Just a heads up I set weird objectives for myself in games to make them harder for me for the challenge. In this one I decided to open wolf to an extent regardless of alignment pre game. I also wanted to see if I made it to Lylo if I could invert the game. By that I mean if I got to Lylo and there was 1 town 1 mafia I would have outed myself as neutral and tried to force the players to argue about who was more scummy instead of arguing how they were town and the other person was the scum. Woulda been fucking hilarious.

Stuff happens. Was a really fun game and although I do feel the game design was pretty slanted twords scum I felt bad for how unlucky they got over and over. That had to be brutal to deal with.

But yeah, While I was not going down with the intention of 'teaching the town a lesson' I do hope this situation can slightly change the meta. Demanding role details should come with a purpose. Post game we realize counter claim nonsense would have been between worthless and just damaging and in hindsight we can reflect on how an open policy kill on a player voicing sound reasoning for not declaring specifics was damaging. In my head I was thinking about end game situations where I was known to have some kinda protective function and the Mafia having to sort out how that would work (while baiting the kill onto me which I could prevent)

Just some thoughts but yeah, you guys can expect this kinda obstinance from me every game forever. I will go off that and shrug as I am mislynched over and over and over before I cave to site meta I just feel is not productive play.

Yeah I worry this is going to get you mislynched again and again in future games, H. This site likes to hear claims so they can analyze the plausibility of that role existing in the context of the other roles on the table.

For my part I will definitely take further role reticence from you with a grain of town salt.

Order of Operations.

It defines exactly how roles interact in what order.

For example- Lets say you have a bus driver that swaps 2 positions. Ok, thats simple. But in what order does that happen?

What if Kills happen before swapping and protects happen after? The host could nerf the doctor in such a way and make a swap prevent heals.

You have no ability to break down the mech information on actions if you do not know the OoO. And if a host has no OoO they will end up having to make decisions on potentially game altering situations as they come up that they never considered designing the game adding the highest level of bastard into the game.

I truly do not see a way to deal with role madness mech analysis without having a defined order of operations. Even if its a blind setup and that OoO is never provided it should absolutely exist.

Yeah, but the group of mafia players here is tiny. Its next to nothing to shift the meta and really if it grows I suspect more people will also ask the obvious question of "Your demanding information or threatening to kill a person, exactly what would you even get out of that information?"

I will beat that horse to death and laugh at every player who is town and just turns their brain off killing people for not doing something 'just because its what people do'

Lol. Yeah, I was so absolutely convinced your claim was fake. I had more knowledge than people not in guilds about what existed in the game and I just felt your claim was impossibly weak from a balance standpoint. I should know better than to make assumptions about what the host may or may not put in the game.

But I disagree that we get nothing out of hearing your full claim before we lynch, and others will continue to disagree as well. You're a dope player and I don't want to see you keep getting killed lol.

Lol ok

Exactly what do you think would have changed if I claimed BP? If anything that would have been more damning given my situation appearing neutral and crippled any ability for me to make moves in the future.

I will also say I specifically only told guild chat I had a protective function because I wanted to leave the door open to FPS gambit any sort of claim as the game went forward.

Objectively when you look at it- me full claiming gave nothing to help sort my slot and would have been harmful in both the optics pushing me closer to the elimination as well as crippling my utility to push my win condition moving forward when considering the game state.

Pretty much why I was desperately shoving people to just talk to me and read me and ask me anything at all. But it felt like everyone turned their brain off and just wanted that one detail for absolutely no reason. Correct me if I am wrong- But can a single person in this game explain why the detail of what exact protective I was would have helped the town? Or even how my role claim to begin with really helped sort me?

Didn't mean to single you out there but really joke or not and good intentions or not its an OOG thing that had large impact on the game. My first posts D1 I just had you as host confirmed town with the reasoning that if it were a real slip the game would be re-rolled and such.

Maybe my reasoning was good or bad. But regardless tons of other players also reacted to it. I think at one point you were put near or at L1 very early and it very much did impact the game.

I'm not even talking about this game specifically. In the case of Mikal's game you were dealt a bad card. Your character was never given goggles in the show. If you had claimed the Protective Armor thing that might've helped because the character was at least given armor in the show, but apparently the armor was a running joke even in the show, so yeah, you were given a bad hand. Plus the whole "request the item and then get it the next night" thing -- blah. Seen in the light of what everyone thought was an information leak, it was damning, and saying you'd rather be dead than transparent just cinched it for everyone.

But what are you going to do if suspicion falls on you and you're the Lie Detector or the Cop or an Inventor? Are you going to keep refusing to claim? Because if a mislynch is imminent, it's better for town to out a role than lose a role.

Few questions, if you would.

Why claim to be unrecruitable?

It fit with Sung Jin-Ah not being a Hunter, and I was trying to at least WIFOM it as something Mafia would not claim because they would want to be recruited. I was banking on neither of the guild leaders willing to use their recruit to test it, or, at least, buying me until tomorrow and letting me scout their guild chat if they did.

Were you given Jinwoo's sister as a fake claim?

Yes. Our fake-claims were Sung Jinah, Go Gunhee, and Sung Il-Hwan. Mikal didn't give us roles initially, but gave me Nurse because, according to him, he made a change while designing the setup and forgot to compensate with a better fake-claim.

Why the fake Jinwoo POE?

It seemed like a way to semi-verify my role if I was right. I was surprised that nobody bought my explanation that I had a Dreamer PoE because it would be too powerful to start knowing a third-party, but I was surprised that people were sussing my claim at all. Maybe I tried to do too much with it and would have been better off sticking to KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid).

Why put the people in it that you did? Alyssa, Rex, Helz?

I was reasonably confident in my gutread that Helz was most likely Jinwoo, and that it was probably Rex if not Helz. Also, I had said earlier that I had strong reason to believe that Helz was town, since I was already pretty sure he was Jinwoo and I was planning that I would, if needed, claim some ability that gave me information about who Jinwoo was. I added Alyssa because, by speculating that she might have a 'symmetrical' ability which gave her information that pointed to me being innocent, I hoped that I could justify my U-turn on her, since it was before it was implied that Jinwoo had turned into a winsteal.

Tbh, I never understood your insistence on intentionally being scumread to make the game more of a challenge. You're playing with unfamiliar players with an unfamiliar meta - couldn't that be the challenge? A site where OoG/angleshooting is widely tolerated, flavor is not NAI, and a playerbase which is completely new to you is plenty disorienting. Trying to intentionally be scumread while swimming upstream against the meta just seems like a good way to get mislynched - and that's what ended up happening in hindsight.

I'm genuinely surprised Mikal gave you Sung Jin-Ah as a fake claim, I really thought you made that up due to claim scarcity. I wouldn't expect him to give you a character who was not a hunter in the show, it kind of puts you at a thematic disadvantage.

I have a harder time taking risks like that. What would you have done if you had lived to the point when it became clear Jinwoo was not in your POE? What would Mag1c have done if no one healed his poison?

That was a joke wagon, which I was on

-Pie was the most impactful on the mech side. Solid actions that shifted the game substantially. Even with the hard run of town getting scum after scum the game could have very easily and quickly been lost if not for their choice of actions. (also why I agree the game was scum sided for balance)

I’ve always said that mechanics/role analysis/justifications are my strong suit. The devil’s always in the details. My behavioral analysis is weaker, which is where if Luna and I are both town, we complement each other. Worked out really well this guy. I was proud of my DP1 behavioral Banana read tho lol

Can you post all the role cards for the records

That was never a thing. Its not about being scum read to make the game harder.

There is strong advantage in keeping yourself as a soft town read. If you are a hardcore town read you can not really be killed in day chat and the mafia team will want to kill you.

Yeah, the making people think I was neutral had no real value other than the challenge but the read of me was exactly where I wanted it. And really, how many players can call in a neighborhood exactly how they want to be read not just as potential scum but a specific flavor of scum plus nailing the exact degree of being town read they want? I feel I nailed that and there was genuine value in play for doing so even if it bit me in the ass over something silly.

So much talk about guild sabotage; my reaction is really? I didn’t see it. I felt like we worked together well and took out scum. I don’t think guild friction was nearly as much of a factor as mstari thinks it was lol but then again he was saying that alot throughout the game for some odd reason.

Yeah, your mech was exelent.

I will also say my banana read was awful.. I was not only wrong I was very wrong and even pushed my guild to recruit them in the early game >.<

I had very strong positions on Thoth and Alyssa and was suspicious of Mag1c but Banana gave me the slip~

So much talk about guild sabotage; my reaction is really? I didn’t see it. I felt like we worked together well and took out scum. I don’t think guild friction was nearly as much of a factor as mstari thinks it was lol but then again he was saying that alot throughout the game for some odd reason.

What are you on right now. We stalled the game multiple times over the guilds refusing to disclose information that could advantage the other.

Banana fooled me too. Props.

What are you on right now. We stalled the game multiple times over the guilds refusing to disclose information that could advantage the other.

I can't think of a time where the game was significantly stalled for this reason. Helz stalled giving his own PM info, but that had nothing to do with guild mechanics

What are you on right now. We stalled the game multiple times over the guilds refusing to disclose information that could advantage the other.

I can't think of a time where the game was significantly stalled for this reason. Helz stalled giving his own PM info, but that had nothing to do with guild mechanics

So much talk about guild sabotage; my reaction is really? I didn’t see it. I felt like we worked together well and took out scum. I don’t think guild friction was nearly as much of a factor as mstari thinks it was lol but then again he was saying that alot throughout the game for some odd reason.

I genuinely wasn’t lying when I said Idrc about my guild winning. I was planning to out myself until Wylted yoloed, so we just played along with it

Yeah wylted kind of forced your hand there

What would Mag1c have done if no one healed his poison?

Huh, I was acting under the assumption that he wasnt actually poisoned and that they waived it and he lied. Don't see the point in risking that.

I definetly thought I got baited after the Shining kill and after Casey’s death but I died. But wow that would’ve been bad

Always protect the mod confirmed Townie lol

Huh, I was acting under the assumption that he wasnt actually poisoned and that they waived it and he lied. Don't see the point in risking that.

You are correct. But if he isn't healed and doesn't die, the lie is exposed.