BYOR Mafia [Endgame]

Originally Posted by RexFavilla on 7/9/2026 at 7:36 AM (post #21)

1. This is why we need to stop claiming early. We lost our only town-directed counter to the extra scum kill because we did so.

Ironically if Wylted had claimed Cop, I would’ve lynched WF.

1. Thoth and Mikal both lying and refusing to elaborate DP1 got Thoth mislynched.

Thoth, idek. Mikal was prob just busy

1. If we had lynched between me & WF DP2 instead of no lynching we had a 50/50 chance of winning the game.

If we lynched you, we would lose on the spot cause Luna had 2 NKs

1. Putting two killing roles in this game was retarded.

Agreed

Originally Posted by Wryly on 7/9/2026 at 12:52 PM (post #30)

I definitely sympathize with Lunatic and whiteflame here, but I don't get the sense we've made real progress reaching an agreed-upon definition of MYLO. Is this something we're going to leave it for individual moderators to define?

Seems like we've got 3 options on the table:

1. MYLO and LYLO are defined by the number of players and how close they are to parity. MYLO represents a 2 player difference and LYLO represents a 1 player difference.
2. MYLO and LYLO are defined by how close the game is to ending considering existing roles. If the game is one lynch away from ending during the NP, but a no lynch would not end the game, it is MYLO. If the game is one lynch/no lynch away from ending during the NP, it is LYLO. If a role could prevent the game from ending during the NP, then MYLO and LYLO are only conditionally achievable.
3. MYLO and LYLO are defined by the players' claims, both fake and real. If the game is one lynch away from ending during the NP, but a no lynch would not end the game, it is MYLO. If the game is one lynch/no lynch away from ending during the NP, it is LYLO. If a claimed role could prevent the game from ending during the NP, then MYLO and LYLO are only conditionally achievable.

That last one seems to be what Mag1c is suggesting, though I could be paraphrasing incorrectly. My perspective is that #1 should be the agreed upon definition for MYLO and LYLO, and I'm not fond of #3 in particular, since it would effectively require a mod to take all fake claims into account when establishing when a game reaches MYLO and LYLO. That being said, I also would not prefer a circumstance where the status of MYLO and LYLO change game to game. That's going to be more confusing and lead to more situations like this. If #2 or something akin to it ends up being the agreed upon definition, then I'd prefer that that be the one all mods use rather than having to redefine the terms every single game.

We could just always have the mod announce MYLO.

Originally Posted by ILikePie5 on 7/9/2026 at 1:43 PM (post #33)

We could just always have the mod announce MYLO.

I think that’s the best. But then the question must remain on when MyLo actually occurs

I think the main lesson to take from this game is the necessity of precisely defining MYLO and LYLO, but I do wonder what was going through Kohai’s mind when he added two extra kills and a potential PGO.

Not seeing a whole lot of engagement with the issue at hand, at least so far, so we may have to break this out to a separate discussion.

We effectively have two questions:

1. Should mods have discretion to make the call on whether a game has reached MYLO/LYLO?
2. Should we establish a site standard for when games reach MYLO/LYLO?

Note that these aren't mutually exclusive. Mods could have limited discretion to make the call within a set of site standards that may be variably limiting.

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/9/2026 at 8:28 PM (post #36)

Not seeing a whole lot of engagement with the issue at hand, at least so far, so we may have to break this out to a separate discussion.

We effectively have two questions:

1. Should mods have discretion to make the call on whether a game has reached MYLO/LYLO?
2. Should we establish a site standard for when games reach MYLO/LYLO?

Note that these aren't mutually exclusive. Mods could have limited discretion to make the call within a set of site standards that may be variably limiting.

i think the community needs to come to an agreement on a MyLo standard

Originally Posted by Kohai on 7/9/2026 at 10:21 PM (post #37)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/9/2026 at 8:28 PM (post #36)

Not seeing a whole lot of engagement with the issue at hand, at least so far, so we may have to break this out to a separate discussion.

We effectively have two questions:

1. Should mods have discretion to make the call on whether a game has reached MYLO/LYLO?
2. Should we establish a site standard for when games reach MYLO/LYLO?

Note that these aren't mutually exclusive. Mods could have limited discretion to make the call within a set of site standards that may be variably limiting.

i think the community needs to come to an agreement on a MyLo standard

That's what I'd prefer too. So are we doing a vote on an appropriate standard? Might be a good idea to settle this before the next game starts.

I don't see how there is even a debate here, town had no way to stop themselves from losing in the night phase, it was MYLO. We won. If you want everyone to hold hands and get participation trophies, you can hand town the win here, as long as you realize you are doing it because you are a soft snowflake who is scared of backlash, literally makes no sense to do it the way it was done.

In hindsight and after sleeping on it, I think scum should be given the win.

I think it’s crystal clear that 9/10 times scum can quickhammer at MYLO and win the game, but that 1/10 time, they may be fucked. So I would say leave the definition of MYLO to Number of Mafia + 2, and let scum quickhammer at their own peril ie let it be a strategy discussion and let town use their words to potentially manipulate as well.

If I was alive, they 100% would lose the game because I could overrun lynches and there wasn’t a limitation in my PM, but I don’t think definitionally MYLO = 100% mislynch and lose. Theres ALWAYS the added NK that has to go through and now potentially the lynch as well.

I would have been fine if we lost to an unstoppable doctor or your role. But the fact that literally nothing could have stopped our night kill is what baffles me that this went to a tie lol

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 7/10/2026 at 10:09 AM (post #41)

I would have been fine if we lost to an unstoppable doctor or your role. But the fact that literally nothing could have stopped our night kill is what baffles me that this went to a tie lol

Yep, in agreement.

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/9/2026 at 7:28 PM (post #36)

Should mods have discretion to make the call on whether a game has reached MYLO/LYLO?

Yes, but it should be announced by the start of day 1 whether or not it will be announced.

Should we establish a site standard for when games reach MYLO/LYLO?

Possibly, but hosts should be free to deviate from it, like with Mikal breaking the norm of revealing the lynch’s alignment at end-of-day. Hosts should be expected, but not formally required, to state their definition of MYLO/LYLO by the start of day 1, unless we all accept a standard definition of MYLO/LYLO, in which case they should only be expected to state it if they are using a different definition.

Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/10/2026 at 6:18 PM (post #43)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/9/2026 at 7:28 PM (post #36)

Should mods have discretion to make the call on whether a game has reached MYLO/LYLO?

Yes, but it should be announced by the start of day 1 whether or not it will be announced.

Should we establish a site standard for when games reach MYLO/LYLO?

Possibly, but hosts should be free to deviate from it, like with Mikal breaking the norm of revealing the lynch’s alignment at end-of-day. Hosts should be expected, but not formally required, to state their definition of MYLO/LYLO by the start of day 1, unless we all accept a standard definition of MYLO/LYLO, in which case they should only be expected to state it if they are using a different definition.

I think adding another variable like this is bound to create more misunderstandings and issues of clarity, particularly since some mods are pretty far apart on this, but I can respect your view.

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/10/2026 at 9:39 PM (post #44)

I think adding another variable like this is bound to create more misunderstandings and issues of clarity, particularly since some mods are pretty far apart on this, but I can respect your view.

What do you mean by adding a variable? If I understand you correctly, not adding a variable would mean forcing all hosts to define and announce MYLO and LYLO in the same way, which contradicts the spirit of host’s freedom that I have always felt on here. Sounds like something from MafiaScum.

Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/10/2026 at 10:47 PM (post #45)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/10/2026 at 9:39 PM (post #44)

I think adding another variable like this is bound to create more misunderstandings and issues of clarity, particularly since some mods are pretty far apart on this, but I can respect your view.

What do you mean by adding a variable? If I understand you correctly, not adding a variable would mean forcing all hosts to define and announce MYLO and LYLO in the same way, which contradicts the spirit of host’s freedom that I have always felt on here. Sounds like something from MafiaScum.

I'm advocating treating it as a foundational definition applied to every game of Mafia for the site, yes. For a related example, games might be able to mess with how parity is established, but the fundamentals of what parity is remain the same across games. I don't think hosts lack for ways to change up the game just because we clearly define certain terms as a community and hold to them - I think there's value in clarifying what these terms mean and using that continuously across games to prevent confusion.

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/10/2026 at 10:09 PM (post #46)

I'm advocating treating it as a foundational definition applied to every game of Mafia for the site, yes. For a related example, games might be able to mess with how parity is established, but the fundamentals of what parity is remain the same across games. I don't think hosts lack for ways to change up the game just because we clearly define certain terms as a community and hold to them - I think there's value in clarifying what these terms mean and using that continuously across games to prevent confusion.

If this community agreed upon standards for how to treat MYLO/LYLO, how do you think we should handle hosts who wanted to define or announce them differently?

Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/10/2026 at 11:31 PM (post #47)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/10/2026 at 10:09 PM (post #46)

I'm advocating treating it as a foundational definition applied to every game of Mafia for the site, yes. For a related example, games might be able to mess with how parity is established, but the fundamentals of what parity is remain the same across games. I don't think hosts lack for ways to change up the game just because we clearly define certain terms as a community and hold to them - I think there's value in clarifying what these terms mean and using that continuously across games to prevent confusion.

If this community agreed upon standards for how to treat MYLO/LYLO, how do you think we should handle hosts who wanted to define or announce them differently?

I think agreeing on the definition for how to treat MYLO/LYLO and then having all hosts adhere to that definition is the best way to handle it. A standard doesn't matter terribly much other than functioning as a reference point if hosts are good to deviate from it however they wish. I'm not arguing that it's enforceable, it's not like we're going to force hosts to change their games if they choose to go a different direction with it, but it should be clear that that's the site standard and that hosts should follow it.

That being said, if the goal is to allow for deviation, then every host would have to be as clear as possible about what their definitions are and likely have to announce when they start just to ensure everyone is on the same page. That should be the bare minimum expectation.

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/10/2026 at 10:40 PM (post #48)

That being said, if the goal is to allow for deviation, then every host would have to be as clear as possible about what their definitions are and likely have to announce when they start just to ensure everyone is on the same page. That should be the bare minimum expectation.

That’s what I was saying. I thought you were suggesting that we enforce a definition.

Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/11/2026 at 12:02 AM (post #49)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/10/2026 at 10:40 PM (post #48)

That being said, if the goal is to allow for deviation, then every host would have to be as clear as possible about what their definitions are and likely have to announce when they start just to ensure everyone is on the same page. That should be the bare minimum expectation.

That’s what I was saying. I thought you were suggesting that we enforce a definition.

There's no way to enforce one without having mods monitoring and intervening in games directly, and unless they're breaking more fundamental site rules, I'd rather not have that.

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/11/2026 at 12:04 AM (post #50)

Originally Posted by Thoth on 7/11/2026 at 12:02 AM (post #49)

Originally Posted by whiteflame on 7/10/2026 at 10:40 PM (post #48)

That being said, if the goal is to allow for deviation, then every host would have to be as clear as possible about what their definitions are and likely have to announce when they start just to ensure everyone is on the same page. That should be the bare minimum expectation.

That’s what I was saying. I thought you were suggesting that we enforce a definition.

There's no way to enforce one without having mods monitoring and intervening in games directly, and unless they're breaking more fundamental site rules, I'd rather not have that.

Agreed. I really don't want to interfere with mafia games - especially ones that are in progress.