Jim Carrey Mafia Endgame

60 posts in an endgame thread? Wild

Full Godfather in a 2-scum game is retarded, especially with scum having another ability that interferes with Cop results. What good is 40% of a cop?

For more information, look up "40% cops"

Originally Posted by Thoth on 11/11/2026 at 5:43 PM (post #62)

Full Godfather in a 2-scum game is retarded, especially with scum having another ability that interferes with Cop results. What good is 40% of a cop?

For more information, look up "40% cops"

This I agree with. In a 9 player game the only balance to a cop mafia really needs is:

1) A miller / hidden miller

2) A x shot framer or lawyer

Town has a Tracker, fucking Governor Miller, Bus Driver, Doctor, and you complain about Godfather? Are you for real? We couldn’t even counter all of these roles at once, we were naked. Town was loaded as fuck. Don’t complain about balance, this game was townsided as shit.

I’m not complaining, thanks for hosting the game Lunatic, I enjoyed it, but scum was anything but too strong. We were too weak.

Let’s not forget about the Cop which was literally the only role that we countered.

Originally Posted by Kohai on 11/11/2026 at 23:48 (post #63)

Originally Posted by Thoth on 11/11/2026 at 5:43 PM (post #62)

Full Godfather in a 2-scum game is retarded, especially with scum having another ability that interferes with Cop results. What good is 40% of a cop?

For more information, look up "40% cops"

This I agree with. In a 9 player game the only balance to a cop mafia really needs is:

1) A miller / hidden miller

2) A x shot framer or lawyer

Miller’s not a balance to Cop, the instant you claim Miller nobody will check you unless they’re either retarded or they think you’re pulling off some weird FPS and you would show up as TOWN for some reason

Originally Posted by Magoroth on 11/11/2026 at 5:22 PM (post #64)

Town has a Tracker, fucking Governor Miller, Bus Driver, Doctor, and you complain about Godfather? Are you for real?

Yes, because that just means both sides were weird

At the end of the day I felt it was one of the toughest games I have played. Not even because of the mech. We just lucked out there.

But because claims were so impossible. The town was so overcrowded having absolutely everything just about every claim I could think of would be in question. That and dealing with a hard flavor split on top of it was rough.

And really, the scum team almost lost just because of claims. Nothing play related at all. Thats the part that was frustrating to me. We made 1 sub optimal play in mech and did a great job keeping town off balance to the point that until the very last second every single town player was possible to lynch but town was so stuffed with PR we did not have any breathing room.

Really enjoyed the game. It was a super cool challenge that I did not expect to win. I think scum played decently but also got lucky as fuck to pull this one out.

Originally Posted by Wryly on 11/11/2026 at 1:05 PM (post #54)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 11/11/2026 at 2:40 PM (post #46)

Originally Posted by Wryly on 11/11/2026 at 12:35 PM (post #45)

Also, you can't just rage and whine and bullrush town at MYLO and expect everyone to see through it as clearly as Banana did. That's the kind of shit Mikal pulls when he's scum and trying to rush town off a cliff. Don't hand scum ammo like that. I get your impatience during DP3, but what good is it to solve the game if your behavior makes the holdout townie scumread you? Especially after you turbolynched a townie? You can't expect us to parse through your erraticness to get an accurate read on you every time.

tl;dr it wouldn't fucking kill you to exercise a modicum of self-control sometimes, wylted.

It was a long time ago but I remember getting this same lecture when I did the same thing in a lylo situation with buddamoose and FourTrouble. I was town and was throwing a temper tantrum that FT wasn’t insta hammering budda who was scum. It was obvious to me but he was trying to be thorough and I just kept pestering the shit out of him lol.

I mean I said "fuck you guys I was the Doctor" out of pure frustration so I'm being at least somewhat hypocritical here lol. But it's easy to lecture when you weren't in the LYLO hot seat :P

I mean thats a pretty valid reaction to being quick hammered as a doctor lol

But because claims were so impossible. The town was so overcrowded having absolutely everything just about every claim I could think of would be in question. That and dealing with a hard flavor split on top of it was rough.

This is crazy to me, because I don't think this game is really hard to find claims on, you had a list of tons of claims for example, even if you didn't pick within the 4 I gave you, you had tons of claim options here and knew the theme split which is a major advantage, town didn't even know the theme split, I just told them it was "easy to figure out" which could still mean a lot of things. That and I just didn't put a ton of effort into making justifications fit flavors, you can see from some of the flips, it would be incredibly easy to justify almost any claim. I don't even think claims were like a major focus this game.

And really, the scum team almost lost just because of claims.

I mean even with everyone pointing out the discrepancy with how PGO worked, it still seemed like most of the major talking points weren't about that, you even had wylted convinced you were town by the end of the day phase. I think your behavior easily over-rode mech analysis, because you played well.

I will admit that balance wise it probably swings to town a bit more in the grand scheme of overall power, though some of that was intended. Roles like roleblocker, and busdriver are just as capable of screwing with the town. They are also usually harder roles to buy as being scum, so I figured it afforded scum mislynch potential. And thoth was an actual mislynch with one of those roles, so I can safely say that worked in your favor. Regardless, you guys played very well and I definitely seen you guys face a pretty big challenge in LYLO, for a bit there I thought scum was cooked, but you guys pulled through. Good job!

Originally Posted by Thoth on 11/11/2026 at 3:43 PM (post #62)

Full Godfather in a 2-scum game is retarded, especially with scum having another ability that interferes with Cop results. What good is 40% of a cop?

For more information, look up "40% cops"

Hard dis-agree. And my personal opinions of cops is fuck cops. I think they are extremely Overpowered and take away from scum hunting. An ability that just tells you who scum is, is very broken. Any game of mine ever, if it has a cop, will have hard counters to it, like millers, godfathers, lawyers/framers etc. I do that on purpose to teach a lesson that investigations aren't everything. Seen many games lost because people blindly trusted results. Behavior is and always should be king.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 11/11/2026 at 10:13 PM (post #70)

But because claims were so impossible. The town was so overcrowded having absolutely everything just about every claim I could think of would be in question. That and dealing with a hard flavor split on top of it was rough.

This is crazy to me, because I don't think this game is really hard to find claims on, you had a list of tons of claims for example, even if you didn't pick within the 4 I gave you, you had tons of claim options here and knew the theme split which is a major advantage, town didn't even know the theme split, I just told them it was "easy to figure out" which could still mean a lot of things. That and I just didn't put a ton of effort into making justifications fit flavors, you can see from some of the flips, it would be incredibly easy to justify almost any claim. I don't even think claims were like a major focus this game.

And really, the scum team almost lost just because of claims.

I mean even with everyone pointing out the discrepancy with how PGO worked, it still seemed like most of the major talking points weren't about that, you even had wylted convinced you were town by the end of the day phase. I think your behavior easily over-rode mech analysis, because you played well.

I will admit that balance wise it probably swings to town a bit more in the grand scheme of overall power, though some of that was intended. Roles like roleblocker, and busdriver are just as capable of screwing with the town. They are also usually harder roles to buy as being scum, so I figured it afforded scum mislynch potential. And thoth was an actual mislynch with one of those roles, so I can safely say that worked in your favor. Regardless, you guys played very well and I definitely seen you guys face a pretty big challenge in LYLO, for a bit there I thought scum was cooked, but you guys pulled through. Good job!

Well for flavor I did not mean that was the issue. I am always sensitive to flavor being AI because I feel like its an entire different game from mafia. Instead of knowing the game of mafia you have to study some other thing like an actors movies to even get possibilities and even with an anti-claim you still roll the dice and have to match that flavor to a PR making claiming an entire situation.

I did ok this game. But what made it really hard was the amount of PR. Reguardless of what the town could have done and if we lucked out or not just consider the claims-

Could we claim any sort of invest? No. Detective + Alignment cop

Could we claim any sort of protective? No. Doctor + BD + Modified RB

Could we claim any sort of redirected role? No. BD and this site does not use OoO to sort situations with multiple redirects.

That basically left obscure utility roles, town killing in a 9p (which is very rare) or citizen claims in a game where almost everyone is a PR and Citizen is a scummy claim. I ended up claiming a negative utility of PGO because I felt any positive utility I thought would look awful. That and I did not even believe Banana's cit claim. Legit thought they were the real soldier which is why they pegged Wylted as town so hard.

I am really not mad about it. I really enjoyed the challenge and had a great time even if I got in my feelings about site meta almost screwing me. It was a super cool experience. But independent of what the town could do the scum were not left with very much room for role claims that would not create a 1v1 and be damning from flips which is why I say its one of the hardest games I have ever played.

Thank you for hosting and I apologize if I sound critical. My tism is showing and I really do appreciate the experience you gave me.

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 11/11/2026 at 10:16 PM (post #71)

Originally Posted by Thoth on 11/11/2026 at 3:43 PM (post #62)

Full Godfather in a 2-scum game is retarded, especially with scum having another ability that interferes with Cop results. What good is 40% of a cop?

For more information, look up "40% cops"

Hard dis-agree. And my personal opinions of cops is fuck cops. I think they are extremely Overpowered and take away from scum hunting. An ability that just tells you who scum is, is very broken. Any game of mine ever, if it has a cop, will have hard counters to it, like millers, godfathers, lawyers/framers etc. I do that on purpose to teach a lesson that investigations aren't everything. Seen many games lost because people blindly trusted results. Behavior is and always should be king.

I mean, what he is asking for is basically what existed. Just at a higher %

GF was there yes, but there was also another scum. 4 days is the reasonable target for the game end with 3 being fast and 5 being slow. So if we go math nerd-

We are looking at an alignment cop hitting at an 11.11% chance every night.

We are looking at a tracker hitting at a 22.22% chance every night.

Now that is talking about targeting perfectly. Scum has an option to block one of the two potentials which is more difficult to quantify. For the Alignment cop it drops them to zero for one night. For Tracker the tracker themselves had to be targeted meaning it started at around a 12.5% chance N1, became a 16.66% chance N2 and would be a 25% chance D3 to offset that 22.22% chance of guilty by RNG player count.

People following what I am saying- This is why I say scum got lucky as fuck. BD makes things much more complicated but simply put you could assume a 4 day phase game with a ~25-30% chance every single day of scum getting hit just by invests. Then add in an additional 11.11% that scales per day for a doc to block a kill.

This game was fucking tough. Scum did not win by skill. They got lucky. I could build a model around it but it would take me more time to explain what things mean than to simply say odds were in towns favor on this one by miles.

Ehh, To the point, a variable result alignment cop would not have changed much of anything. And the GF was not even slightly an OP change to the setup.

Originally Posted by Helz on 11/11/2026 at 9:33 PM (post #72)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 11/11/2026 at 10:13 PM (post #70)

But because claims were so impossible. The town was so overcrowded having absolutely everything just about every claim I could think of would be in question. That and dealing with a hard flavor split on top of it was rough.

This is crazy to me, because I don't think this game is really hard to find claims on, you had a list of tons of claims for example, even if you didn't pick within the 4 I gave you, you had tons of claim options here and knew the theme split which is a major advantage, town didn't even know the theme split, I just told them it was "easy to figure out" which could still mean a lot of things. That and I just didn't put a ton of effort into making justifications fit flavors, you can see from some of the flips, it would be incredibly easy to justify almost any claim. I don't even think claims were like a major focus this game.

And really, the scum team almost lost just because of claims.

I mean even with everyone pointing out the discrepancy with how PGO worked, it still seemed like most of the major talking points weren't about that, you even had wylted convinced you were town by the end of the day phase. I think your behavior easily over-rode mech analysis, because you played well.

I will admit that balance wise it probably swings to town a bit more in the grand scheme of overall power, though some of that was intended. Roles like roleblocker, and busdriver are just as capable of screwing with the town. They are also usually harder roles to buy as being scum, so I figured it afforded scum mislynch potential. And thoth was an actual mislynch with one of those roles, so I can safely say that worked in your favor. Regardless, you guys played very well and I definitely seen you guys face a pretty big challenge in LYLO, for a bit there I thought scum was cooked, but you guys pulled through. Good job!

Well for flavor I did not mean that was the issue. I am always sensitive to flavor being AI because I feel like its an entire different game from mafia. Instead of knowing the game of mafia you have to study some other thing like an actors movies to even get possibilities and even with an anti-claim you still roll the dice and have to match that flavor to a PR making claiming an entire situation.

I did ok this game. But what made it really hard was the amount of PR. Reguardless of what the town could have done and if we lucked out or not just consider the claims-

Could we claim any sort of invest? No. Detective + Alignment cop

Claiming an investigation role should always be a high risk high reward gamble. Expecting to be able to claim one by default is hopeful, imo.

Could we claim any sort of protective? No. Doctor + BD + Modified RB

Again, another role that should be high risk high reward to claim.

Could we claim any sort of redirected role? No. BD and this site does not use OoO to sort situations with multiple redirects.

Redirection roles are commonly scum aligned here, so it's probably not an ideal claim anyway.

That basically left obscure utility roles, town killing in a 9p (which is very rare) or citizen claims in a game where almost everyone is a PR and Citizen is a scummy claim. I ended up claiming a negative utility of PGO because I felt any positive utility I thought would look awful. That and I did not even believe Banana's cit claim. Legit thought they were the real soldier which is why they pegged Wylted as town so hard.

I think if you are creative enough with claiming, you can come up with anything good. I think what people will focus here is more how well the role links with the character though. You can claim almost anything as long as the justification makes sense with whatever character you are claiming. Enough mods use anti claim mech like including common scum roles as town that this should be default.

I am really not mad about it. I really enjoyed the challenge and had a great time even if I got in my feelings about site meta almost screwing me. It was a super cool experience. But independent of what the town could do the scum were not left with very much room for role claims that would not create a 1v1 and be damning from flips which is why I say its one of the hardest games I have ever played.

I mean I just feel this should be the default though. I think scum have it easy in our current metas with claiming, I think claiming as scum should require a bit of creativity and imagination. Crafting fake claims is my favorite part of being scum, actually. I've had some pretty good ones before.

Thank you for hosting and I apologize if I sound critical. My tism is showing and I really do appreciate the experience you gave me.

I appreciate the critique either way, just think its just a fundamental different view on certain things I suppose.

Originally Posted by Helz on 11/11/2026 at 9:45 PM (post #73)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 11/11/2026 at 10:16 PM (post #71)

Originally Posted by Thoth on 11/11/2026 at 3:43 PM (post #62)

Full Godfather in a 2-scum game is retarded, especially with scum having another ability that interferes with Cop results. What good is 40% of a cop?

For more information, look up "40% cops"

Hard dis-agree. And my personal opinions of cops is fuck cops. I think they are extremely Overpowered and take away from scum hunting. An ability that just tells you who scum is, is very broken. Any game of mine ever, if it has a cop, will have hard counters to it, like millers, godfathers, lawyers/framers etc. I do that on purpose to teach a lesson that investigations aren't everything. Seen many games lost because people blindly trusted results. Behavior is and always should be king.

I mean, what he is asking for is basically what existed. Just at a higher %

GF was there yes, but there was also another scum. 4 days is the reasonable target for the game end with 3 being fast and 5 being slow. So if we go math nerd-

Yeah a 9-player game is usually about 3-4 day phases max.

We are looking at an alignment cop hitting at an 11.11% chance every night.

We are looking at a tracker hitting at a 22.22% chance every night.

Now that is talking about targeting perfectly. Scum has an option to block one of the two potentials which is more difficult to quantify. For the Alignment cop it drops them to zero for one night. For Tracker the tracker themselves had to be targeted meaning it started at around a 12.5% chance N1, became a 16.66% chance N2 and would be a 25% chance D3 to offset that 22.22% chance of guilty by RNG player count.

The math also excludes factors such as piecing toether town roles based on taking hints or breadcrumbs from the day phase. This was a weird game where claims weren't prominent early as they usually sometimes are, and dp2 ended too quickly for anything to come out, but I've played as scum with whiteflame or magic a few times where we've been able to pretty much POE out every or most power roles by dp2. Not everyone is capable of that, I understand. And you were not really afforded that oppertunity this game, again.

People following what I am saying- This is why I say scum got lucky as fuck. BD makes things much more complicated but simply put you could assume a 4 day phase game with a ~25-30% chance every single day of scum getting hit just by invests. Then add in an additional 11.11% that scales per day for a doc to block a kill.

This game was fucking tough. Scum did not win by skill. They got lucky. I could build a model around it but it would take me more time to explain what things mean than to simply say odds were in towns favor on this one by miles.

Don't underplay yourself, I think it took some skill, and I think you ended up convincing both rex and wylted that you were town based on behavior alone!

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 11/11/2026 at 11:08 PM (post #76)

Originally Posted by Helz on 11/11/2026 at 9:45 PM (post #73)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 11/11/2026 at 10:16 PM (post #71)

Originally Posted by Thoth on 11/11/2026 at 3:43 PM (post #62)

Full Godfather in a 2-scum game is retarded, especially with scum having another ability that interferes with Cop results. What good is 40% of a cop?

For more information, look up "40% cops"

Hard dis-agree. And my personal opinions of cops is fuck cops. I think they are extremely Overpowered and take away from scum hunting. An ability that just tells you who scum is, is very broken. Any game of mine ever, if it has a cop, will have hard counters to it, like millers, godfathers, lawyers/framers etc. I do that on purpose to teach a lesson that investigations aren't everything. Seen many games lost because people blindly trusted results. Behavior is and always should be king.

I mean, what he is asking for is basically what existed. Just at a higher %

GF was there yes, but there was also another scum. 4 days is the reasonable target for the game end with 3 being fast and 5 being slow. So if we go math nerd-

Yeah a 9-player game is usually about 3-4 day phases max.

We are looking at an alignment cop hitting at an 11.11% chance every night.

We are looking at a tracker hitting at a 22.22% chance every night.

Now that is talking about targeting perfectly. Scum has an option to block one of the two potentials which is more difficult to quantify. For the Alignment cop it drops them to zero for one night. For Tracker the tracker themselves had to be targeted meaning it started at around a 12.5% chance N1, became a 16.66% chance N2 and would be a 25% chance D3 to offset that 22.22% chance of guilty by RNG player count.

The math also excludes factors such as piecing toether town roles based on taking hints or breadcrumbs from the day phase. This was a weird game where claims weren't prominent early as they usually sometimes are, and dp2 ended too quickly for anything to come out, but I've played as scum with whiteflame or magic a few times where we've been able to pretty much POE out every or most power roles by dp2. Not everyone is capable of that, I understand. And you were not really afforded that oppertunity this game, again.

People following what I am saying- This is why I say scum got lucky as fuck. BD makes things much more complicated but simply put you could assume a 4 day phase game with a ~25-30% chance every single day of scum getting hit just by invests. Then add in an additional 11.11% that scales per day for a doc to block a kill.

This game was fucking tough. Scum did not win by skill. They got lucky. I could build a model around it but it would take me more time to explain what things mean than to simply say odds were in towns favor on this one by miles.

Don't underplay yourself, I think it took some skill, and I think you ended up convincing both rex and wylted that you were town based on behavior alone!

Oh, the math is trash. I excluded soooo many things and scribbled that on a phone post. I could break down more logarithmic functions and how they intersect and how. But how many people would follow that thought process. Giving very basic %s just kept it simple and got the point across.

I agree having to come up with creative claims is great. What is not so great though is when you do not know what names people on this site use for roles or what specific way they are used. Then its less about just figuring out what a good claim could be and more about not stepping on some intellectual landmine. That is what just sucks imo. It feels soo bad trying to come up with a fake claim and not knowing what is even considered normal or reasonable in the community. This will be a growing pain for this place I will call out.

Originally Posted by Helz on 11/11/2026 at 10:35 PM (post #77)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 11/11/2026 at 11:08 PM (post #76)

Originally Posted by Helz on 11/11/2026 at 9:45 PM (post #73)

Originally Posted by Lunatic on 11/11/2026 at 10:16 PM (post #71)

Originally Posted by Thoth on 11/11/2026 at 3:43 PM (post #62)

Full Godfather in a 2-scum game is retarded, especially with scum having another ability that interferes with Cop results. What good is 40% of a cop?

For more information, look up "40% cops"

Hard dis-agree. And my personal opinions of cops is fuck cops. I think they are extremely Overpowered and take away from scum hunting. An ability that just tells you who scum is, is very broken. Any game of mine ever, if it has a cop, will have hard counters to it, like millers, godfathers, lawyers/framers etc. I do that on purpose to teach a lesson that investigations aren't everything. Seen many games lost because people blindly trusted results. Behavior is and always should be king.

I mean, what he is asking for is basically what existed. Just at a higher %

GF was there yes, but there was also another scum. 4 days is the reasonable target for the game end with 3 being fast and 5 being slow. So if we go math nerd-

Yeah a 9-player game is usually about 3-4 day phases max.

We are looking at an alignment cop hitting at an 11.11% chance every night.

We are looking at a tracker hitting at a 22.22% chance every night.

Now that is talking about targeting perfectly. Scum has an option to block one of the two potentials which is more difficult to quantify. For the Alignment cop it drops them to zero for one night. For Tracker the tracker themselves had to be targeted meaning it started at around a 12.5% chance N1, became a 16.66% chance N2 and would be a 25% chance D3 to offset that 22.22% chance of guilty by RNG player count.

The math also excludes factors such as piecing toether town roles based on taking hints or breadcrumbs from the day phase. This was a weird game where claims weren't prominent early as they usually sometimes are, and dp2 ended too quickly for anything to come out, but I've played as scum with whiteflame or magic a few times where we've been able to pretty much POE out every or most power roles by dp2. Not everyone is capable of that, I understand. And you were not really afforded that oppertunity this game, again.

People following what I am saying- This is why I say scum got lucky as fuck. BD makes things much more complicated but simply put you could assume a 4 day phase game with a ~25-30% chance every single day of scum getting hit just by invests. Then add in an additional 11.11% that scales per day for a doc to block a kill.

This game was fucking tough. Scum did not win by skill. They got lucky. I could build a model around it but it would take me more time to explain what things mean than to simply say odds were in towns favor on this one by miles.

Don't underplay yourself, I think it took some skill, and I think you ended up convincing both rex and wylted that you were town based on behavior alone!

Oh, the math is trash. I excluded soooo many things and scribbled that on a phone post. I could break down more logarithmic functions and how they intersect and how. But how many people would follow that thought process. Giving very basic %s just kept it simple and got the point across.

I agree having to come up with creative claims is great. What is not so great though is when you do not know what names people on this site use for roles or what specific way they are used. Then its less about just figuring out what a good claim could be and more about not stepping on some intellectual landmine. That is what just sucks imo. It feels soo bad trying to come up with a fake claim and not knowing what is even considered normal or reasonable in the community. This will be a growing pain for this place I will call out.

I am sure that will become an issue at times, but hopefully it won't become a huge issue after some time. I notice you guys call vanillas "citizens" and refer to mafia as "wolves" often, and funnily enough I think we've kind of started adapting words from you mago and cerulean into our vocab at times. Things like "Mind meld" and "TMI" weren't really in our mafia vocab, so we are learning from you guys too lol. There were a few other ones I think we've started picking up from you foreigners as well I can't think of off the top of my head.

Go ahead and post sign ups for your game!