Ranger’s Apprentice Mafia Endgame

Started by ILikePie5

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#1 •••

MAFIA WIN



To start off, I will be the first to say that in hindsight, I thought this game was a little scum-sided, but I’m curious to hear what y’all thought. The fact that Town even came close to 2-1 is a testament to their resilience. With that being said, I thought there were a few fundamental errors on both sides. I’ll try to evaluate each player’s gameplay based on what I saw in hopes of providing constructive criticism.


I’ll start with RationalTheist. Your role was designed to disrupt a lot of scum’s actions, namely the Bus Driver and Deflector. The role is definitely not an SOP claim either and gave scum a leg up in working their night actions. The best use for your role is targeting a townie so their actions are not interfered with. I also disliked that Mharman wasn’t pushed for a full claim after he was literally supposedly seen visiting himself.


Mikal, I feel like you were just busy with work in life. You definitely could’ve prevented your own lynch, not much to discuss tbh. I also think that your role isn’t an SOP. It has great utility if you hid behind scum or at least someone who was never going to be NKed by scum.


Whiteflame, not much to talk about. You got a taste of what I feel every game being killed NP1. Your role definitely would’ve been fun though. I can already see Mharman raging over losing to a coin toss. It’s partially why I gave scum some pretty OP roles to compensate, but scum just chose pretty well.


Casey, I definitely feel you too. I thought that you missed an opportunity by going for the soft claim early on. If you just asked let’s soft claim fief, I don’t think you would’ve gotten much pushback. Plus it would’ve locked scum into fake claims even better. I also think you were busy with work and so inactivity didn’t help. I also think you should’ve pursued Mharman a lot more based on the “Tracker” result. This is a recurring theme tbh. Mharman speculated that the Tracker was messed with and it all just seemed to disappear for some reason.


REF, you’re one ballsy dude. I would never have used the Roleblock NP2. Your logic thought definitely made sense to me, and it helped town out a lot in securing Mharman’s lynch. As you mentioned, I think you get tunnel vision sometimes. If you had lived instead of Lunatic, you probably would’ve hammered Wryly too. You also got super unlucky targeting WF. Like I mentioned, the role was intended to confirm potential townies ie the Hider at the expense of yourself. You were supposed to be the investigative role powered with various protective roles.


Wryly. I think you actually did very well in this game, especially considering this was your first game by yourself. I thought you acted very townie, bolstered by the fact that you were a noob. Whiteflame and I both thought that in DP4, you were on fire. Your logic and everything made sense and was incriminating. The only bad thing for you was that you were on the wrong wagon DP1 and DP2. My other comment is about waiving DP1. As a Doctor, you definitely shouldn’t have done that. Target the towniest person in your eyes. It was such a noob move, and one that didn’t even ping scum’s radar. You definitely have a bright future once you start learning the behavioral cues and how roles work.


Luna, I know you were bamboozled by Thoth. He definitely played a really good game, and I know you think I’m being condescending, but I think you just overlooked so many details that matter and rushed a little to end it. You know that I focus on the details, and I acknowledge it’s a flaw of mine, but I feel like you’re basically on the opposite side of the spectrum, and that’s a flaw as well. Thoth isn’t really a noob; he’s played countless games of mafia before. He knows the rodeo. He’s far likely to be a manipulative bastard than Wryly who theoretically would be playing her first game as scum. You’d have to assume that Mharman coached her to say she targeted REF when it would’ve been easier to say she targeted you. There was a lot of noob behavior that you overlooked, which is fair cause it could be noob scum. However, there were just some facts (that Wryly mentioned) that you missed. The biggest is the fact that Mharman was the 1x Strongman. That is a known fact. Thoth saw Mharman visit himself during NP1. How would this be possible. Let’s say Mharman did use the Strongman, then the Tracker would see him kill Whiteflame. Let’s say he waived; then he can’t be tracked. Let’s look at what the townies did. RT waived and REF blocked WF. There is not a role that exists that can create a result that Thoth saw. Redirector doesn’t work. Neither does Bus Driver, or Deflector. That’s why Mharman had to come up with a Mirror Maker and even that doesn’t work because it would involve Mharman having a usable/manipulatable ability in the first place. Let’s say Thoth, who you believed was town was manipulated. Redirector, Bus Driver, and Deflector don’t work because Mharman never visited and the townies didn’t visit themselves. Anyways, I’ve failed at 2-1 as well, so don’t take it personally. Just providing some details that were pure fact and not subject to WIFOM.


Okay, now moving onto mafia. Mharman played a good game in terms of determining night actions. It didn’t help that townies just openly claimed for no reason, but his night actions were solidifying for scum. Also, evading a full claim in DP2 was a major plus point. I can’t believe town let him get away with it after he was seen self visiting. Especially since the only roles that really do that are Lawyer or maybe activatable BP. Either way, that evasion and lynch on Casey was really well done. I know there were moments of tension in the scum chat, but as I said. Argumentative scum are better than inactive you. You’re there to bounce ideas off of each other and point out the flaws in each other’s logic. Better to talk about a plan before going out and executing.


Thoth, as everyone has already said, you played a really good game. Staying off of the wagons is always something you want to do as scum. I thought you tried just enough to avoid seeming like a try hard. I’m mainly referring to the counter arguments you gave to Wryly and everyone else. They were obviously garbage, but you did just enough to seem like you’re providing real analysis while not taking advantage of the town cred you gained. It was like putting shade on someone and then taking credit for it even though you were implicated by it. Also, the fact that you responded to a lot of people in one post was hard to follow for me, and I’m sure for other people. I’m surprised people were following along. I won’t let it slide though, so be warned.


Anyways, long story short, I thought this game was relatively scum-sided, but town put up a really good fight. One piece of advice I would give to townies is to ask questions. The worst I can say is that I won’t answer them. Scum asked a million questions about mechanics and roles, especially for flipped ones that I thought town missed. Scum made the mistake of linking themselves to each other, but it ended up benefiting them because of the “it doesn’t make sense to do that” argument during DP2 and onwards. Oh I almost forgot, the theme split was Rangers vs Non-Rangers or Ranger and his apprentice was everyone else. I was also surprised there wasn’t much discussion of characters and justifications for this game. Some were more reasonable than others, but that’s usually by design. As always, I hope everyone had fun, and any constructive criticism is appreciated.


Edit comment

#2 •••

TOWN:



Whiteflame - You are Horace. You are known as The Oakleaf Knight in the Kingdom of Araluen. Orphaned at an early age, you went to Battleschool in Redmont Fief and grew up to be a formidable swordsman. You challenged Morgarath at a very young age and defeated the Rebel Lord in single combat. Later, you traveled through Gallica and defeated various swordsmen as well. Without your sword, the Kingdom of Araluen would’ve fallen multiple times. Because of this, you are the 1x Duelist. During one day, you may challenge a player to a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors freezing the DP. Whoever loses will serve as the lynch for that DP. If there is a tie, both of you will live, but the DP will end. You win with the Town.



Casey - You are Alyss. You trained under Lady Pauline to be a Diplomat in the Araluen Diplomatic Corp. You and Will went on a mission in Norgate Fief to learn about the mysterious death of Lord Syron. There, you were captured and hypnotized by Sir Keren. Thankfully, you were able to coordinate with Will using the Diplomatic Code, which gave him information from the inside. Because of this, you are the Emissary. You start the game with reliable information of the identity of one town-aligned player in the game. Here is your hint: This character is from Redmont Fief. You win with the Town.



Mikal - You are Evanlyn. You are actually Princess Cassandra of Araluen, hiding your true identity to protect yourself while in Celtica. You adopt the name Evanlyn and pretend to be a lady’s maid, traveling with Will and Horace during their mission against Morgarath. By disguising yourself, you avoid drawing attention as a high-value target, especially when captured by the Skandians. Your ability to act humbly and dress simply allows you to blend in with commoners, keeping your royal background hidden. Because of this, you are the Compulsive Hider. Each night, you must select a player. If that player dies, you will die as well. You win with the Town.



Lunatic - You are Morgarath. Your dream has always been to conquer the Kingdom of Araluen and rule it yourself. You saw yourself as someone more capable and intelligent than the current rulers—someone who truly deserved the throne. As the former Baron of Gorlan, you grew bitter and ambitious, convinced that power rightfully belonged to you because Duncan was weak. The desire for control drove you to betray the kingdom, raise an army, and ally yourself with dark creatures like the Wargals. After being defeated in your first attempt, you retreated to the Mountains of Rain and Night—not to give up, but to regroup and plan on how to defeat the kingdom once and for all. Thus, you are the 1x Dreamer. If you are not visited, you will receive a list of 3 names, out of which at least one will be scum. You win with the Town.



RationalTheist - You are Tug. You are Will’s Ranger Horse. Like all Ranger horses, you cannot be ridden unless you tell the horse a codeword. In the event someone tries, you buck them off. Your passcode is funnily enough: “Do you mind.” Another trait of yours is that you can detect danger before it reaches your rider, which has saved Will’s life countless times. Anyone who wishes to do your master will likely be stopped before because of your ability to detect danger. Sometimes though, this puts you in harm's way, such as when you almost got impaled by a boar, but thankfully left unscathed. Because of this, you are the Asceticizer. Each night, you may target a player. That player will be immune to non-lethal actions. You win with the Town.



Wryly - You are Malcolm. You are a skilled healer, able to cure nearly any illness or poisoning. However, after a boy died from a rare reaction to your treatment, a rival accused you of negligence. Shunned and hated, you fled to Grimsdell Forest, where you surrounded yourself with eerie signs and took in outcasts like Trobar and Luka to protect the woods. Though feared as a dark sorcerer, you helped Orman, Will, and Xander when they came seeking you, and played a key role in the battle for Castle Macindaw by creating distractions with the Night Warrior. Later, you saved Halt’s life by administering a simple but life-saving cure, proving your true value. Without your help, Castle Macindaw would have fallen to the Picts, and the northern part of the kingdom lost forever. Therefore, you are the 2x Doctor. Each night, you may protect a person from lethal actions. You win with the Town.



REF - You are the Kalkara—a silent, relentless hunter. With a single gaze, you paralyze your prey, locking them in fear, helpless to move or fight back. You were used as a weapon to assassinate Lord Northolt and Lord Lorriac. You also almost succeeded in assassinating Halt, but failed. Few can resist you, and only those with an iron will stand even the slightest chance of breaking free. Your thick fur shields you from blades, arrows, and axes alike. You sprint with deceptive speed, leaping across great distances, outpacing even the fastest Ranger horses and battle-trained steeds. The major weakness you have though is your waxy skin, which is used to kill you. Because of this, you are the 2x Weak Roleblocker. Each night, you may select a player. That player will be roleblocked. However, if you select a member of the mafia, you will also die. You win with the Town.


————————————


MAFIA



Thoth - You are Gilan—a rare Ranger who blends knightly training with stealth and versatility. Raised in nobility and trained by the famed swordsman MacNeil, you're a master of the blade, able to fight with both hands. You ride Blaze, a long-legged mare and are the Corps' best at concealed movement. Though Will is more instinctive, you’re a dependable mentor and close friend to him, often offering guidance and support, especially as it relates to the person that taught both of you: Halt. As one of the best Rangers, you took over the Commandant position after the death of Crowley. Because of this, you are the Mafia JOAT: 1x Redirector, 1x Bus Driver, 1x Rolecop, 1x Deflector, 1x Scout, 1x Lookout. You win with the Mafia.


Mharman - You are Halt. Your presence alone is intimidating. You walk into a room and people fall silent. Kings listen to you, enemies fear you, and your fellow Rangers look to you for guidance. You fight with precision and move like a shadow, but when the moment calls for it, you strike with deadly force. But perhaps your greatest strength lies in your mind and heart. You outthink your enemies and plan battles that turn the tide of wars. Your actions alone led to the defeat of Morgarath’s army, not once but twice. Your actions led to the defeat of the Temujai in Skandia as well. You simply cannot be defeated while being the tactician of a war or battle. Because of this, you are the 1x Strongman. Each even night you may choose to execute the NK. That kill will be unstoppable. You win with the Mafia.


————————————


NP1 Actions:


RationalTheist - Waive

Wryly - Waive

REF - Roleblock Whiteflame

Lunatic - Thoth, Wryly, Casey


Mharman - Strongman Whiteflame

Thoth - Deflect Actions on Mharman to REF



NP2 Actions:


RationalTheist - Asceticizer Lunatic

Wryly - Protect Magic

REF - Roleblock Lunatic


Thoth - NK Theist & Lookout Lunatic (sees REF)




NP3 Actions:


Wryly - Protect REF


Thoth - Bus Drive Wryly & REF + NK Wryly


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#3 •••

Good game everyone. Thoth you were definitely the MVP of the game.


I wish I would have done more to prevent the Mikal lynch. That was just so bad. In addition I wish I would have pushed harder for mharman on Dp2. I correctly called him out on being conf scum via POE.

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"Kohai, your entrance to the thread was legendary, you had a solve and a winning PoE right when you showed up, super impressive stuff, even more so considering it wasn't even your objective!!" - Zrein

#4 •••

Well done to scum.


In retrospect, and I know I discussed this with Pie at some point, the big thing that should have town-locked Wryly was the fact that there was a 1X Strongman at all and no other role aside from Wryly's for that to counter. If Wryly's role wasn't in the game, then the existence of a Strongman at all was pointless.


Aside from that, basically agree with everything Pie said. I think Wryly's logic was really good, just the use of her role could have used some work. REF had some good calls in his last DP as well. I think Luna was on the right track much of the time, but just got very focused on behavioral cues as scum tells that came off as very townie to me. Not going to see things the same way, and I can certainly see where he was coming from.

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#5 •••

Wow I would've thought that JOAT was way too overpowered to be in the game. I guess no, mafia needs better roles to balance being outnumbered.


Wait so which power did Thoth use on me to block my protection of Rex?

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#6 •••
Some were more reasonable than others, but that’s usually by design. As always, I hope everyone had fun, and any constructive criticism is appreciated.

Yeah. Constructive. Like calling my arguments garbage. Unless you just meant they were false.


Scum chat this game was not idyllic. We rarely agreed about what to do and strong words were exchanged, but, as Pie told me, better argumentative than inactive. I could not have done it without Magic. In particular, during day 2 after Casey's role flipped, I wanted to claim Will Treaty as a modified Cop that checks whether or not a player is from Araluen, and he caught that this would have exposed me as lying or scum straight-claiming because Will is from Redmont Fief and Casey saw there was one, presumably meaning only one, town-aligned player from Redmont. Oopsie.


I brought up gender soft-claiming day 1 because I figured that, with Evanlyn claimed, it could save us a question and identify characters since one female would probably be Alyss Mainwaring and two would almost certainly be Alyss and Madelyn Altman. I was surprised that nobody called me on this given the low female:male ratio of important characters in this series.

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Forum signatures are bullshit. Nobody wants to waste their time and bandwidth reading something they have read 29,998,559,671,349 times before.

#7 •••

Okay i just didn't understand how bus driver worked. Grr. My one correct protection. Maybe after Rex died anyway i should have just claimed to have protected Luna. Might have looked less suspicious because he raised an eyebrow at that

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#8 •••
Wait so which power did Thoth use on me to block my protection of Rex?

You Doctored Rex and I killed you, then Bus Driver sent the kill to Rex and your Doctor to yourself. I was surprised that Bus Driver redirected night kills too. That play was Magic's idea. I think it might have been better to Redirect you to Lunatic because that Bus Driver play would have failed if you had self-doctored.

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Forum signatures are bullshit. Nobody wants to waste their time and bandwidth reading something they have read 29,998,559,671,349 times before.

#9 •••

I definitely made more blunders than bullseyes here. I was too worried about wasting my shots in NP1; i didnt want to have no shots NP3 when id probably have better reads. Protecting Magic was dumb. Magic convinced me to mislynch Mikal and I mislynched Casey just because her role gave us ex post facto information. And I should have tagged Luna way more in DP4, I dont think my arguments were reaching him

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#10 •••
--> @Thoth
Wait so which power did Thoth use on me to block my protection of Rex?
You Doctored Rex and I killed you, then Bus Driver sent the kill to Rex and your Doctor to yourself. I was surprised that Bus Driver redirected night kills too. That play was Magic's idea. I think it might have been better to Redirect you to Lunatic because that Bus Driver play would have failed if you had self-doctored.


Okay I see. Nah it was the right play because there was no way I was gonna self-doctor at that point. You would be stupid to NK me with only the two of us left in the POE. And I had no idea what a bus driver was so I wouldn't have anticipated that play.

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#11 •••
--> @Lunatic

This is all from Day 4, Post 31.


Most of thoth's behavior has been relatively similar to his other town games.

The ones we have played together? All one of them?


But the major point I want to touch on here is how increbily pro-town his lynching behavior is. If mafia is going to stay away from mislynches, the only reason to do so would be to use it for town cred.

The reason I was on neither of those mislynches is because both times, I was busy in real life and got back right before the end-of-day deadline, but Pie had closed the thread early. Lucky me. I was afraid someone would point out that I was not posting during the last few votes on either wagon.


Thoth has been on exactly 0 mislynches, and has never once tried taking credit for that. In fact when I gave him town cred in dp2 for it, he tried denying the town cred by explaining he wasn't around to vote!

I figured that the town credit for not being on mislynches was self-arguing enough that explicitly playing the "town credit" card would look tryhardy. Same with the justification for Gilan being a Tracker. It fits so well that going on about it could make someone say, "Why is Thoth putting in effort to convince me of this very obvious thing?"


Hell, thoth was so conservative he didn't even want to vote and missed the fact that I was town confirmed because I hadn't quick hammered him yet, where wryly was very quick to point that out. This is such an innocent little town slip its very hard for me to ignore, but ultimately shows how passive and careful he is being because he doesn't want to mess town up.

I actually did miss that. It's what I get for playing forum Mafia as scum while taking four accounting courses.


I knew that rex would die though, because mharman was smart enough to have directed that, knowing that if I die, it confirms my results and proves rex is town. Rex has the ability to prevent a kill which can confirm him especially with a town doctor alive (if she was actually a town doctor). To shut that narrative down scum would have HAD to have killed rex, and I think mharman is one of the few people alive that is smart enough to have pieced that together.

I'm not sure I understand this.

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Forum signatures are bullshit. Nobody wants to waste their time and bandwidth reading something they have read 29,998,559,671,349 times before.

#12 •••
--> @Wryly

Did you ever claim 2x?

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Forum signatures are bullshit. Nobody wants to waste their time and bandwidth reading something they have read 29,998,559,671,349 times before.

#13 •••
--> @whiteflame
If Wryly's role wasn't in the game, then the existence of a Strongman at all was pointless.

Eh. More like pointreduced than pointless. There was still Hider. I asked Pie whether or not Strongman killed a Hider if targeted at them, and he said yes, which surprised me. No matter how strong you are, you can't kill someone who isn't there.

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Forum signatures are bullshit. Nobody wants to waste their time and bandwidth reading something they have read 29,998,559,671,349 times before.

#14 •••
--> @RexFavilla

Rex lying about his role being harmful to visitors so we would not redirect him got us to waste our NP1 action.

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Forum signatures are bullshit. Nobody wants to waste their time and bandwidth reading something they have read 29,998,559,671,349 times before.

#15 •••
Oh I almost forgot, the theme split was Rangers vs Non-Rangers or Ranger and his apprentice was everyone else.

I caught Gilan being Halt's apprentice, but I missed that they were the only Rangers in the setup. I guess I implicitly thought that Horace was a Ranger because he was good with a sword and never questioned that assumption or even recognized it as an assumption.

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Forum signatures are bullshit. Nobody wants to waste their time and bandwidth reading something they have read 29,998,559,671,349 times before.

#16 •••
--> @Thoth
Yeah. Constructive. Like calling my arguments garbage. Unless you just meant they were false.


Ya they were false and misleading/redirecting, which town sadly fell for

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#17 •••
--> @Thoth
Eh. More like pointreduced than pointless. There was still Hider. I asked Pie whether or not Strongman killed a Hider if targeted at them, and he said yes, which surprised me. No matter how strong you are, you can't kill someone who isn't there.


That is surprising, though I wouldn’t have bought that as an explanation for why a Strongman was in this game - literally just to make an already negative utility role worse - especially since that was the only role Magic had. Strongman, like any other scum role, exists to balance something town has as a positive utility role. If there was no protective role in this game, I would have called shenanigans.

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#18 •••

I'm not going to be too hard on Luna because I originally was also scumreading Wryly, mainly because Thoth's scum play was just that good. I was pissed that I was killed because I thought they would kill Luna and did a lot of iso reading in the NP. Wasted a bunch of time lol. But Thoth's behavior was spot on.


One thing that really threw me off is why Mharman had such a hardon for lynching Mikal DP1. As scum I would want to keep him alive, especially if Thoth had a redirect. I thought the only way that made sense to do as scum is if Wryly is your partner. I went into DP4 as a spectator sure that she killed me. But she did a really good job arguing and made some good points. I can't say for sure what I would have done because I asked to know who was guilty beforehand so I could watch how whoever scum was defended themselves in realtime. I really don't get Thoth claiming to have seen Mharman visit himself - that basically incriminated him as soon as Mharman flipped. Mharman was clearly expecting to outlive Thoth because Thoth was in PoE imo, only way that move makes sense. My main criticism of Luna is that you hammered way too early. I would have slept on it at least.


What didn't make sense to me as the DP dragged on was Wryly coming out and saying 'oh boy, I visited the NK as doc and they still died, what happened?' Scum Mharman would never let a coached Wryly come out with that. And if I were her scum partner, I would tell her to waive the nightkill to fake confirm her role - whether its three of four players surviving, scum wins if town mislynches.

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#19 •••

I have some noob questions if anyone doesn't mind.


1. Why is it bad for a doctor to waive NP1? I know people scumread it but why. What i looked up seemed to indicate doctors should play conservatively.


2. Why didn't anyone ask Lunatic if he was a 1x or 2x dreamer? RT even used his Asceticizer on Lunatic NP2, I assume to protect him if he had a second dream to spend?


3. Why did Magic try to float the argument that Pie wouldn't put a Hider in a 9 player game?

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#20 •••
--> @Thoth
The ones we have played together? All one of them?


I thought you were in retro too i guess not.


I'm not sure I understand this.

basicslly speculation on why I was the night kill instead of Rex, I had figured that Rex would have been killed last night and even mentioned it to pie but I was hoping it would have been me because Rex was technically more confirmed than me. It ended up not even being an issue no one tried to spin me as scum in the end really.



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In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.

#21 •••
--> @ILikePie5

I focused on a ton of details. That they were the wrong ones or that there was things I don’t know about shows that I am part of an uninformed majority. Spent hours going over logic so I definitely didn’t rush. I had my mind made up since dp3 about wryly so waiting arbitrarily wouldn’t have done much.

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In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.

#22 •••

GGs scum team.



sorry I was wrong town, but can’t get it right all the time. Did my best.

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In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.

#23 •••
--> @Lunatic

I thought my DP4 arguments concerning Thoth's read of a Magic self-visit would persuade you. Why didn't they and what could I have done to make them more persuasive

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#24 •••
--> @Lunatic
sorry I was wrong town, but can’t get it right all the time. Did my best.


Also no judgment Thoth played a great game

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#25 •••
--> @Mag1cman

Why go so hard on Mikal DP1?

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#26 •••
--> @RexFavilla
I would have slept on it at least.


i work nights. All that would have resulted in is me talking to myself and probably just seeing the same conclusion anyway. I had already done a lot of considering about my decision in the night phase previous. My schedule sucks so I am sleeping during a lot of the times people are awake and discussing anyways, and I’m up and active when yall are dead to the world. I wanted to ge my decision in before pie went to bed so I wouldn’t stall the game another 24 hours based on sleep schedules. Unfortunately I don’t see myself making another choice no matter how long I had waited. Thoth was town confirmed to me since his np1 result and the confusion around mharmans self visit was 90% of the reason I even voted mharman in the first place.

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In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.

#27 •••
--> @RexFavilla
What didn't make sense to me as the DP dragged on was Wryly coming out and saying 'oh boy, I visited the NK as doc and they still died, what happened?' Scum Mharman would never let a coached Wryly come out with that. And if I were her scum partner, I would tell her to waive the nightkill to fake confirm her role - whether its three of four players surviving, scum wins if town mislynches.


Argh I should have made this argument DP4.

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#28 •••
--> @Wryly
I have some noob questions if anyone doesn't mind.

1. Why is it bad for a doctor to waive NP1? I know people scumread it but why. What i looked up seemed to indicate doctors should play conservatively.


Maybe I'm retarded but I think you made the right move. For someone who doesn't have a x-times doctor it would be an awful move, but I think that keeping your power dry until you can do more with it is a defensible play as town. Especially as a 2x.

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#29 •••
--> @Thoth
Did you ever claim 2x?


DP2 #88

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#30 •••
--> @Wryly
I thought my DP4 arguments concerning Thoth's read of a Magic self-visit would persuade you. Why didn't they and what could I have done to make them more persuasive


the mharman self visit was a big reason I saw Thoth as town. And it was like the main reason I lynched mharman in the first place. I chalked up the self visit to pie having odd mechanics about how roles and visits work, but generally understood that mafia tend to self visit more than town. Mharmans excuse for showing up on a mirror maker was so absurd that it kind of town confirmed Thoth to me, and if there was a bus going on it looked more to me like he was trying to bus you then Thoth.

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In loving Memory of Lannan and Ajab, fallen debaters.