Israel is the most dangerous country for every single human being and violates the name of the so-called democracy

Greetings reader, I wish to expose a fundamental thing about antisemitism and how it truly works.

When you look at the above image, what do you feel inside? What 'tone' does his smile seem to have? What reason is he happy?

All these answers reveal your biases inside.

Do you see a white man pretending to be Jewish? Do you see a valid Tribe of Levi (same as Moses) descendant?

The reality of antisemitism is it is actually the single most ancient racism there ever was which still is maintained to this date, as ancient as Ancient Egypt. The Jews have been persecuted for millennia and what's super tragic is these days it's the so-called Left Wing of 'tolerance' and 'inclusivity' that is pushing most forward with Jew hatred.

Let me ask you a fundamental question, if World War II era Germany had been led by Hitler just the same but Israel had fully existed, do you think the Nazis would have deported Jews to Israel or that they'd have exterminated them as Himmler and Hitler led them to? These are dangerous questions. However, the severe nature of it is essential to ask. I want to explain why Israel was forged primarily by the British and of course Jews themselves, post WW2 and what the significance is of having a land for Jews.

(quote)

In the autumn of 1941, approximately 338,000 Jews remained in Greater Germany. Until this point, Hitler had been reluctant to deport Jews in the German Reich until the war was over because of a fear of resistance and retaliation from the German population. But, in the autumn of 1941, key Nazi figures contributed to mounting pressure on Hitler to deport the German Jews. This pressure culminated in Hitler ordering the deportation of all Jews still in the Greater German Reich and Protectorate between 15-17 September 1941.

Following the order, Himmler, Heydrich and Eichmann attempted to find space for the Jews from the Greater German Reich in the already severely overcrowded ghettos in eastern Europe. Officials in the Łódź, Litzmannstadt, Minsk and Riga ghettos were all informed that they would need to absorb the population of Jews from the Greater German Reich, irrespective of overcrowding.

The Minsk Ghetto was full, so in order to make room for the Reich Jews, the local SD , German Army and local collaborators gathered approximately 25,000 of the local ghetto inhabitants, drove them to a local ravine, and murdered them. German Jews soon filled their places in the ghetto. Similar murders took place in Riga.

(end quote)

theholocaustexplained.org deportation-of-german-jews-september-1941/

Now imagine if there had actually been an Israel. If Israel had still existed as it did 2000+ years back, there would be a place where Jews face only persecution from fellow Jews overall and where they would be willing to even become crowded to high degrees if it meant saving Jews from WW2 white supremacist xenophobia.

Instead, there was ultimately nowhere safe, stable and welcoming to send them to. This is how Himmler, Hitler etc escalated to eventually resort to the unthinkable.

I am not defending Hitler at all here, I am against him please believe it. I am saying, if there is 0 nation for the Jews to be completely unashamedly Jewish, to collect together and face next to 0 persecution, they cannot truly exist fine and safe. Israel was necessary and is located exactly where Jews did exist for a long, long time prior.

Israel’s origin isn’t as simple as just displacement and abuse of the native Arabs either. Ultimately, it’s official final war prior to being established as it is, was a 1v6 war where 6 Islamic nations/cultures tried to annihilate them. It is actually 7 nations but ‘transjordan’ is complex if it truly was its own nation yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War

It is essential to understand that Israel’s origin is not as simple as conquest or terrorism. It was a reclaiming of a land by people persecuted for thousands of years, who Romans and Sharia regimes chased out of the land of Israel.

I also want you to notice something. In the list of nations, ‘Palestine’ isn’t mentioned. This is because Palestine was never a nation until the same British government that helped establish modern Israel dubbed the Islamic lands as ‘Palestine’ in an offered split. And the nation now known as Jordan actually exists on land the Jordanian regime robbed the so-called Palestinian culture and ethnicity of.

https://www.jns.org/who-stole-palestinian-land-jordan/

The reason that this history is essential to know for this debate is that there are 3 regions Pro says he visited; Jerusalem, Haifa and Nablus.

What is strange is what he actually means by this. Nablus is islamically ruled, any abuses and ‘apartheid’ there are actually often antisemitic. As far as any research would tell you, Nablus is entirely Muslim dominated. Haifa is 40+% Muslim and they have significant influence there. If anything Haifa proves it is not simply an apartheid state. Jerusalem is interesting. If any religion and sub-ethnicity has claim to it it’s Arab Christians, not Arab Muslims who have decided somehow Jerusalem is theirs when of all 3 Abrahamic religions, Islam has the least historic care or claim to Jerusalem.

Something very important to realise is that antisemitism rarely happens as a straightforward racism, instead it consistently works as xenophobia. The antisemitic Islamic population in Israeli lands keeps framing Jews of Israel as evil and bullies, this framing allows all aggression, abuses and vitriol from the Islamic communities in Israel and so-called Palestine, to seem defensive, justified and artificially tame. In contrast, any and all retaliation from Jews is seen as offensive, unjustified and excessively feral.

This double standard was also seen in WW2 Nazi Germany. One minute Hitler claimed Jews were extremely capable, strategic and formidable able to rule over Germany long-term and outsmart all the whites. The next minute Hitler claimed that they were inferior, unstrategic and pathetic and inferior (I AM AGAINST ANTISEMITISM OF ANY KIND, I am exposing something about Israel vs Palestine propaganda).

What you will observe is that in Israel, Muslims hold the identical double standard towards Israeli Jews.

My opponent is lying or misinformed if he thinks Arabs are safer in so-called Palestine than the parts of Israel correctly called Israel and under full Israeli rule. What my opponent will do when I prove how much safer Arabs are in full-owned Israel than West Bank or Gaza, is he will say that’s due to apartheid. In other words, all problems in Gaza and West Bank apparently are the fault of Israel, not of the Palestinians themselves. Yet all problems in Israel will be lamed on Israelis themselves, especially the Jews.

If my opponent actually explored lifespan, safety from sexual assault, safety from diseases or really any category of safety at all especially for women, the disabled, LGBTQ and other such subsets, he would realise that Israel even culturally is a safer, more welcoming community than the Palestinians which are extremely bigoted in multiple ways.

The debate is meant to contrast Israel to the whole world. My opponent has actually not explained anything about how Israel isn’t safe.

The Haredim he framed as victims, regularly spit on Christians and have severe hostility to Israel. If he specifically means the Hasidic, they are anti-Zionist because they think Jews are unholy today as they don’t fully adhere to the Tanakh enough, which says to persecute/alienate (but not necessarily kill) gays, kill apostates and more. Another Harei sect called Neturei Karta and are a subset of Litvish, not Hasidic. They take the Hasidic logic to a far worse level.

The Haredis of that variety have even been known to justify the Holocaust.

https://theworld.org/stories/2024/03/19/neturei-karta-jewish-sect-doesn-t-believe-concept-jewish-state-israel

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6171503.stm

These are the extremists of Judaism. You can’t go more extreme than them, to be quite honest.

Of course they have been challenged by the Israeli government. They are a threat to the national security of Israel and they have a lot of hatred for even other Jews.

Israel has not been sufficiently proven to be the most dangerous state of the world at all.

I am not sure what to say to that Round 2. I believe I have nothing at all to reply to.

In round 1 some pasting errors led to images showing in wrong places or not at all. The Netanyahu image at the bottom of my Round 1 was meant to show near the start and this image was also meant to be displayed when discussing the 1948 war:

Notice that none of the 7 states mentioned which even includes a barely formed state of Transjordan, are Palestine. This is because Palestine failed to actually become a State ever and Jordan itself is on stolen land from what would otherwise be Palestine, by the logic of self-identified Palestinians this land would be Jordan.

I will quote from a book I won't clarify how I got it but it's legal access. I either got it from a library, or own/rent via another method whether physical or e-book.

Mann, John. Antisemitism: The Oldest Hatred. London/NY, Bloomsbury Publishing Plc, 2015.

ISBN: 978-1-4729-2075-(this single digit would reveal the type of copy I have, it is a 1, 5 or an 8).

The following isn't actually John Mann's it's him quoting Tarek Fatah (a Muslim) and the works he is referencing are The Jew is Not My Enemy: Unveiling the Myths That Fuel Muslim Anti-Semitism

I changed per cent to % and written numbers mainly to digits.

First page being quoted, 223:

It is not only in Pakistan where today's Muslims believe their ill will towards Jews is deeply rooted and centuries old. Compared with the Arab world, the people of Pakistan could be considered moderate. A 2010 report by Pew Research Center on attitudes in the Muslim World makes for some disturbing reading.

The report is based on a survey carried out by the Washinton-based think tank in 2009. Among other issues, the survey gauged the attitude of Muslims towards other religious groups, including Jews. The results confirm the anecdotal evidence. 95% Egyptians, 97% of Jordanians, 98% of Lebanese, and 97% of Palestinians had an unfavourabe view of Jews. Among non-Arab Muslims, the rated were only slightly lower. The report said, 'Negative views of Jews are also widespread in the predominantly Muslim countries surveyed in Asia: more than 7 in 10 in Pakistan (78%) and Indonesia (74%) express unfavourable opinions. A majority in Turkey (73%) also hold a critical view.'

pause quote

I found the report the book cites, in case you're interested.

quote resumed:

However, lost in the gloomy statistics was a single ray of hope. Bucking the trend of the entire Muslim world were the Muslims who know the Jews best; whose lives are intertwined with those of Jews on a daily basis; who work and travel with and at times serve in the same armed forces as Jews: Muslim Israelis. If the Jews were the monsters they have been made out to be in Muslim narrative, then covnentional wisdom would dictate that Muslim Israelis, iving under the banner of the Star of David in cities like Nazareth, Haifa, Beersheba, and Tel Aviv, would have the most negativeopinion about the Jews. Instead the Pew surve yfound that the majority of Muslism living in Israel hold a favourable view of Jews. The report says 'Only 55% of Israeli Arabs express a negative opinion of Jews, while 56%voice a favourable opinion.'

pause quote

The author has made a significant error... He meant 35% not 55%. It seems the only way to contact Bloomsbury for a non-order related issue is to pay to call and if you're not in North America that is an international costly call to make.

I know it's 35% because inside the actual Pew Research report this is shown:

In the 'Israel' section, you can see it's 56-35-8 which blatantly is the part he is referencing.

You get the gist.

The reality is that this idea that Muslims are even themselves better off if the region that's Israel was ruled by Muslims instead of the Israeli government is a lie. Xenophobia, bigotry and all that jazz is more severe under a Sharia regime than it is under the Israeli regime, especially if we mean modern Israel vs modern Palestine (I deny Palestine is a real state by the way but I also realise for people who are in so-called Palestine or from there living abroad it's very difficult for even themselves to claim they're Israeli, particularly if they're from Gaza, since it has an implication that they lived outside the West Bank and Gaza and also that their roots aren't there, in the so-called Palestine so I understand why there is a mental concept of Palestine but I deny it's supposed to be a genuine internationally recognised state).

There is basically nothing for me to rebuke. I don't even understand what I'm meant to add.

Jews need a homeland. There is literally no other country where Jews fully can be a tribe of Jews together operating without pressures against them, often primarily from Muslim communities in the same vicinity but even from Christian or white and/or black secular ones.

You will find that around the world, Jews have 1 homeland and until 1948 ever since Romans and Muslims robbed them of that land, Jews had no homeland at all. Both Roman Catholics and Muslims as well as even partly the Byzantine Orthodox, robbed the Jews of a safe place to be Jewish and forced conversions or killed them at times. Abuse to them is truly one of the single most ancient ethnic hatreds there ever was which still remains today.

okay how do you justify jewish people born in Israel andafter moving to another country they became anti-Israel?

Well I can justify this in 3 ways.

Justification 1 is more sinister and dismissive, which would be they pretend to be anti-Israel to blend in with those who otherwise would be antisemitic to them. By being anti-Israel they 'blend in' better and often can do much better business in the cancel culture western world. It really depends which country you mean but I assume you mean the west as you yourself are from Italy and most of the angles you used in Round 1 imply a more Westernised reason to be against Israel rather than an Islamic or some other angle.

Justification 2 is a variety of reasons mostly emotional. I think often the type of Jew you refer to has still got some roots elsewhere. Meaning, they have a family that's geographically torn and some remain in Europe and did not move away. This type of anti-Zionist Jew has resentment because both part of their own identity as a person and trauma on top leads them to feel not fully Israeli in a sense. They may even feel more at home when moved away to a European nation or America, where the other part of their family is. I don't fully know do I? Maybe they hated the forced conscription on Israeli Jewish men (which doesn't apply to Arabs or non-Jews of Israel by the way as they realise that's cruel to mandate on Arabs who may end up fighting some of their own family and not be mentally ready for that).

Justification 3 is either end of politics the extremes. A socialist or communist will not like Israel even if they're Jewish and also the extremist Haredis of the type I cited in Round 1 would dislike it because it's too secular both in origin and in how it runs, for their liking. I suspect very left wing Jews have a valid reason to be antiZionist but that even they realise logically a homeland for Jews is needed so if a Nazi Germany ever arises again it has a place to humanely deport Jews to instead of considering exterminating them (I am not justifying what they did I am talking about at least having a humane alternative when nutcases take over a country).

you didn't explain the difference between zionism and semitism.

Often they're very intertwined, let's begin with that almost all antisemites are also antizionist. The angle you are using is that one can be antizionist and not be antisemitic. Okay. That is true.

However, the Haredim that opposed Israel the most, which you referred to are severe Judaism-based fundamentalists that believe most Jews are bad for not strictly adhering to Orthodox Judaism. This is actually antisemitism from a Jewish extremist subset. That should probably highlight to you that Zionism actually is very overlapped with being Semitic. To really genuinely expect Jews to betray their own kind and deny their ethnicity of a homeland is obnoxious.