Judas Had A Bad Deal.

Yes. I am a heretic on this matter but I think I understabd how it works.

God himself is not bound by the rules he sets either in OT or in NT.

This even means the command to love thy neighbour unconditionally. However, we are explicitly told in NT he is love itself but I sense this refers to Holy Spirit specifically and not necessarily the other 2 Persons.

Awwww...it sounds like Stephen needs a hug.

The Holy Spirit teaches believers all things, 

revealing God's truth, guiding them into understanding Scripture, convicting them of sin, and illuminating Jesus' teachings, helping them apply His Word to life, and producing spiritual fruit like love, joy, and peace as part of their transformation into Christ's likeness. 

And telling them that they have cancer.

Yep I'm guessing that both Abraham and Moses partook of the Holy Spirit.

And I'm guessing that Jesus and his boyfriends also experimented, in order to reach an altered state of consciousness.

Such is shamanism.

Yes. I am a heretic .....

I didn't ask anyone if they were heretic. But its nice to know where people stand on certain issues sometimes. But I will add that your response here has done nothing more than create more questions.

.......on this matter but I think I understabd how it works. God himself is not bound by the rules he sets either in OT or in NT.

Quite a deep response .... for a heretic. is god not ruled by his own character?

This even means the command to love thy neighbour unconditionally. However, we are explicitly told in NT he is love itself....

So does God then have an changeable nature? Because we are told in the OT by god himself that he is a "god of war". So you are saying then that war is love?

I sense this refers to Holy Spirit specifically and not necessarily the other 2 Persons.

And who or what are these "other two persons? and where does your idea of there being two "others" come from?

Not wanting to drift too far off the topic : If Jesus won't forgive the actions of Judas (because he had, in this instance, changed his mind about forgiveness and love), then why couldn't Jesus control the actions of Judas?...... or Satan, come to that?

well when people die, they often have a life review. they are shown their lives through the lives of others. empathy is the key factor. i dont know if NDEs where this happens are the same as the 'final judgment' but there are probably similarities. we are on this earth for a reason, self sarificial love, for the greater good, or love. the bible says Jesus didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it, and that those who reject the light stand already condemned... they reject the light cause their ways are dark. the bible says that Jesus is the light. when you reject jesus, you reject the light. and, again, it's not so much that Jesus condemns you, but that you stand already condemned, cause you reject truth and light cause your ways are dark. plus, those who are stuck in their sins, those whos natural tendency is towards the darkness, never took that chance to accept the salvation that God has offered.

# **Why God Allows Condemnation: Light, Freedom, and the Transformative Life Review**

One of the deepest tensions in Christian spirituality is the question:

**If God is love, why does He allow condemnation at all?**

The Christian tradition, when placed in dialogue with modern NDE research, life reviews, and the experiential wisdom of those who come close to death, offers a remarkably coherent answer:

**condemnation is not God’s desire; it is the natural consequence of rejecting the light that God eternally offers.**

## **1. God’s Purpose: Transformative Love, Not Punishment**

Throughout Scripture, God’s intention is consistently restorative, not punitive:

* *“God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.”* — **John 3:17**

* *“He desires all people to be saved and come to knowledge of the truth.”* — **1 Tim. 2:4**

This is not a God who delights in punishment.

This is a God whose very nature is **light** (1 John 1:5), **love** (1 John 4:8), and the healing of the human soul.

But this same God also respects human freedom so deeply that He does not force transformation.

---

## **2. NDE Life Reviews: A Glimpse Into Divine Light and Moral Reality**

Many NDEs include a **life review**, often described as:

* Being immersed in a loving, conscious light

* Seeing one’s life from the perspective of others

* Feeling the impact of every action with *perfect empathy*

* Experiencing no external condemnation—only the truth of one’s own heart

What stands out is how closely this matches biblical themes:

1. **The Light reveals everything**

*“Everything exposed by the light becomes visible.”* — Eph. 5:13

People in NDEs say it feels as though they enter the presence of pure truth and love.

2. **Judgment is experiential, not imposed**

Jesus says:

*“This is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than light.”* — John 3:19

NDErs say the same: the “judgment” is not condemnation from God but a confrontation with one’s own choices in the presence of perfect Love.

3. **Empathy is the measure**

Jesus’ teaching on final judgment—“whatever you did for the least of these…”—is exactly what people in life reviews describe: you feel what the least of these felt.

These parallels are striking:

NDE life reviews show **why** God’s judgment can be both perfectly loving and perfectly honest.

---

## **3. Condemnation as a Natural State, Not God’s Act**

The Bible repeatedly says that condemnation is not something God inflicts; it is something we **enter into** by rejecting the light:

* *“He who does not believe is condemned already.”* — John 3:18

* *“The wrath of God is revealed… as God gives them over to their own desires.”* — Rom. 1:24–28

* *“They refused to love the truth and so be saved.”* — 2 Thess. 2:10

This means:

**Condemnation is not a lightning bolt from heaven.

It is the soul’s alignment with darkness rather than light.**

In other words:

> **People are not condemned because God rejects them.

> People are condemned because they reject the Light that heals them.**

NDErs often report that entering the light feels like entering pure love—but also pure truth. If someone’s entire being has been oriented toward deception, ego, cruelty, self-centeredness, or hatred, the light can feel unbearable.

As some NDErs describe it:

**“It wasn’t that God rejected me. I couldn’t accept the light because I wasn’t willing to let go of who I had become.”**

This matches the Christian teaching perfectly.

---

## **4. Why God Allows Condemnation: The Price of Real Freedom**

The deepest spiritual answer is:

**Without the possibility of rejecting God, the possibility of real love does not exist.**

Love requires freedom.

Freedom requires consequences.

Consequences require the real possibility of saying “no” to the Light.

The universe is morally structured so that:

* **Self-sacrificial love** aligns you with the Light

* **Self-centeredness** turns you away from it

This is exactly what NDE life reviews reveal:

**the universe is built on empathy, love, relational truth.**

Condemnation exists not because God desires it, but because God will not cancel out the reality of human choice.

---

## **5. Salvation as Alignment With Light**

The Bible says Jesus is:

* **“the true Light that gives light to everyone”** (John 1:9)

* **“the Way, the Truth, and the Life”** (John 14:6)

* The one who *“draws all people”* (John 12:32)

Rejecting Jesus means rejecting the Light, not because God demands a password, but because Jesus *is* the Light.

Thus:

> **To reject Jesus is to reject the truth about reality, about ourselves, and about love.**

People “stand condemned already” because they cling to the darkness that destroys them from the inside.

---

## **6. Humanity’s Mission: Growth Into Self-Sacrificial Love**

NDE experiencers often return convinced that the meaning of life is:

* To learn to love

* To grow in empathy

* To become more like the Light

* To choose self-sacrificial love over ego

* To heal and transform

This is exactly the Christian vision of theosis / sanctification.

Life is not a test to pass; it is a **journey of transformation**.

And if we refuse transformation for long enough—if we reject light out of attachment to darkness—we end up in the consequences of our own refusal.

This is why Jesus says:

*“Whoever follows Me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”* — John 8:12

---

# **Conclusion: God Allows Condemnation Because Love Cannot Be Forced**

When Scripture, NDE science, and Christian spiritual tradition are woven together, a beautiful picture emerges:

* God is pure love and pure freedom.

* Judgment is the soul encountering the Truth in the presence of Love.

* Condemnation is not imposed by God but chosen by a soul clinging to darkness.

* NDE life reviews show this same principle experientially—truth, empathy, relational morality.

* Salvation is the acceptance of light, love, truth, Christ.

* Condemnation is simply what happens when the soul refuses the Light that would heal it.

In the end:

> **God allows condemnation for the same reason He allows love—

> because He refuses to violate human freedom.**

But His desire—always—is to save, to illuminate, to heal, and to draw every soul into the Light that has been shining since the beginning.

---

# **Light, Darkness, and the Proactive Rescue of God**

A crucial insight—one that ties together Scripture, NDE wisdom, and lived human psychology—is that **people do not simply choose darkness once; they often live trapped in patterns of darkness they cannot escape on their own.**

This is where the heart of the gospel shines:

> **Jesus does not merely avoid condemning the lost.

> He actively seeks, intervenes, and rescues them.**

> And rejecting Him means rejecting the rescue itself.

Let’s unpack this more fully.

---

## **1. Humans Are Not Simply “Good or Bad”—We Are Torn, Conflicted, and In Need of Rescue**

Psychology, spirituality, and even NDE accounts agree:

Human beings are divided.

* We glimpse the truth, yet turn from it.

* We feel the call of the light, yet choose the comfort of shadows.

* We desire goodness, yet are bound by habits, wounds, fear, ego, trauma, and sin.

Paul describes this perfectly:

*“The good I want to do, I do not do… Who will rescue me from this body of death?”*

— **Romans 7:19–24**

Notice: **Paul does not say we rescue ourselves.**

He cries out for deliverance—and the very next verse answers:

*“Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!”*

— Romans 7:25

Scripture’s anthropology is not that some people are drawn to light and some to darkness.

It is that:

> **All people are wounded, conflicted, and incapable of saving themselves.

> Some surrender to the Light, and some resist it.**

---

## **2. Jesus’ Promise Is Not Passive Mercy—It Is Active, Pursuing Salvation**

Jesus does not merely *forgive* darkness; He *invades* it.

This is why He says:

* *“The Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”* — Luke 19:10

* *“While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”* — Rom. 5:8

* *“You did not choose me, but I chose you.”* — John 15:16

* *“I have come as Light into the world, so that no one who believes in Me should remain in darkness.”* — John 12:46

This is proactive.

This is rescue, not passive acceptance.

The gospel is not mainly:

> “If you behave well, God will let you into the Light.”

It is:

> **“You cannot escape your darkness,

> but I—the Light—will come into your darkness to pull you out.”**

---

## **3. NDE Life Reviews Confirm This Proactive Love**

In NDEs, the Being of Light is not simply a cosmic mirror.

People describe Him as:

* Guiding

* Comforting

* Teaching

* Healing

* Helping them face truth they would never face alone

* Helping them reinterpret their life in a way that leads to transformation

Many say:

> “The Light was doing everything possible to help me grow, heal, and understand.”

> “He wasn’t judging me; He was helping me see.”

This is rescue-love.

This is active salvation.

Even in NDEs where people initially enter a dark or hellish state, many report that the Light still seeks them, calls them, or meets them when they cry out—even when they felt utterly unworthy.

This exactly matches Scripture:

*“Even the darkness is not dark to You.”* — Psalm 139:12

---

## **4. So Why Are Some “Condemned Already”?**

Not because God refuses to save them.

But because **they refuse the rescue.**

Jesus says:

*“This is the verdict:

Light has come into the world,

but people loved darkness rather than light.”*

— John 3:19

This means:

* **They see truth at moments** (as you noted).

* **But they reject it**, because it threatens the false self they cling to.

* **They reject the only power that can free them.**

This is not God condemning them.

This is the drowning person pushing away the lifeguard.

Thus Jesus says:

*“You will not come to Me, that you may have life.”*

— John 5:40

The tragedy of condemnation is not that God withholds salvation.

It is that some souls **refuse to be saved**.

---

## **5. The Gospel Is Not Merely Forgiveness—It Is Transformation**

To reject the gospel is to reject:

* The Light that exposes the darkness in us

* The Love that wants to heal that darkness

* The Truth that wants to remake us

* The power of God to save us from ourselves

You captured this perfectly:

**People get “stuck in their sins.”**

This is a real spiritual condition described in Scripture:

* *“Everyone who sins is a slave to sin.”* — John 8:34

* *“Their foolish hearts were darkened.”* — Rom. 1:21

* *“The god of this age has blinded their minds.”* — 2 Cor. 4:4

Slavery, blindness, darkness, addiction (in the spiritual sense).

And the gospel is Jesus breaking the chains.

Rejecting Jesus is therefore not rejecting a doctrine.

It is rejecting **deliverance**.

---

## **6. Putting It All Together**

Here is the whole integrated truth:

1. **People are divided and often trapped in their sins.**

2. **Jesus does not merely avoid condemning them—He actively seeks to rescue them.**

3. **NDE life reviews reveal this same proactive healing love.**

4. **But love cannot be forced:**

The soul must accept the Light.

5. **Those who reject the gospel are rejecting the only power that can free them from the darkness they cannot escape alone.**

6. **Thus they “stand condemned already” not because God wills it,

but because they refuse the rescue that would save them.**

---

# **A Final Synthesis Statement**

> **God allows condemnation because He allows freedom—

> but Jesus offers salvation even to the deeply trapped—

> and rejecting the gospel is rejecting the very Light that would liberate, transform, and heal the soul.**

You are learning Christianity from Christians, which is why you come up with these misleading statements.

Christianity doesnt exist, and Jesus even asked for forgiveness for people who crucified him.

"Christians" dont understand the Bible, especially the Gospels, where they seem to fail to hear any of Jesus's words. Jesus literally taught "do not resist the evildoer", "who lives by the sword dies by the sword", "God is good to both good and evil", "love those who persecute you"...

these are the teachings these "Christians" cannot understand, because Christianity is invented religion which has made its followers blind to the very thing they claim to follow.

The Nature of Sin and Condemnation in Christianity and NDEs

🕊️ Sin

To sin is to intentionally do what you know is wrong. It requires all three components:

Intention

Knowledge

Action

This basic moral insight holds true not only in Christian theology but also in many NDE (Near-Death Experience) and New Age interpretations of morality. While they may not explicitly use the word sin, even those in these circles acknowledge a kind of moral failing—missing the mark, being ignorant of, or repelled by the divine nature or loving intention that God has for us.

NDE accounts frequently describe a life review in which the experiencer sees how their actions either aligned or misaligned with love, truth, or light. Harm done knowingly or selfishly is deeply felt—even if forgiven. Sin, in this broader sense, is a falling short of our intended design as loving, relational beings.

🔥 Condemnation

The idea of condemnation in Scripture is often misunderstood. In another post, we examined what Jesus might have meant by hellfire and what hellish afterlife experiences in NDEs seem to suggest. Here, we focus solely on what the Bible says about condemnation.

📖 What Does the Bible Actually Say?

The Bible isn’t very clear that mere ignorance of Jesus’ salvation causes condemnation. However, it is clear that knowingly rejecting it can lead to it.

The most definitive passage may be found in the context of the famous verse John 3:16:

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

But this is immediately followed by a deeper explanation of condemnation:

“This is the verdict (condemnation): Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.” (John 3:19)

Condemnation, then, is not about arbitrary rejection or ignorance—it’s about willfully turning away from the light when it is offered.

🕯️ What About the Unreached or the Ignorant?

In Catholic and Orthodox traditions, there is discussion about whether those who have never heard the Gospel might still be saved. The argument is that people can respond to the light of natural reason, inborn conscience, and the law written on the heart (Romans 2).

“Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law… they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them”

(Romans 2:14–15)

So what about those who reject Jesus, but have little knowledge of who He truly is or what He teaches?

Are they significantly different from those who have simply never heard of Him?

Many traditional churches would answer yes: rejection of Christ, like sin, implies knowledge and deliberate rejection. “They knew better” is often the rationale. However, that judgment—whether they truly knew or not—belongs to God alone.

🤔 What If Someone Sincerely Seeks and Still Rejects?

This raises a deeper question:

What if someone sincerely explores Christianity, but after research and reflection, rejects it?

Does their sincerity count for them—or against them?

We must be honest: Only God can judge such a heart. But we can observe that the Bible does not explicitly state that anyone who simply doesn’t know about Jesus will be automatically condemned.

🔍 Other Relevant Verses:

Jesus in John 8:24:

“Unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

—This implies unbelief leads to sin remaining—but again, in the context of rejection.

Jesus in Mark 16:16:

“Go into all the world and preach the gospel. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”

—Here too, condemnation seems tied to active rejection, not mere ignorance.

Revelation 21:8 mentions that the faithless and unbelieving have their part in the lake of fire—but again, the passage does not clearly define who these “unbelievers” are in terms of knowledge or culpability.

🌍 A Broader Picture: Judgment, Mercy, and Light

It is possible to conclude, from a non-lenient reading, that all unbelievers will be condemned. But the lack of explicit clarity on this point, combined with themes of God’s mercy, justice, and light, in the bible and holy tradition, opens the door to possible exceptions—especially for the sincere, the ignorant, or the morally upright who have not encountered Christ clearly.

Ultimately:

Condemnation in Scripture is often tied to a person’s response to the light they’ve been given.

Judgment belongs to God, who sees the heart, the level of knowledge, and the intentions behind belief or rejection.

📚 NDEs and Condemnation

Many NDE accounts reinforce this theme: condemnation isn’t about religion or doctrine alone—it’s about alignment with love, truth, and light. In hellish NDEs, people often report states of isolation, fear, or darkness—not imposed from outside, but flowing from their own rejection of love, humility, or truth.

(For more on this, see the section on “Hellish Afterlife Experiences in NDEs.”)

✅ Conclusion

Sin, whether in Christian theology or in the insights drawn from near-death accounts, is not simply about violating rules—it’s about knowingly rejecting what is good, true, and loving.

Condemnation, likewise, is not arbitrary—it is deeply tied to how a person responds to the light and truth they’ve encountered.

And in the end, the mercy and justice of God are our greatest hope.

Only He knows the heart.

And instead of getting hung up on sin and condemnation, maybe we should focus on the good news. As was mentioned, even the bible says Jesus didn’t come to condemn the world, but to save it. He taught that there’s life after death, and that the kingdom of God is based on love and goodwill… all we need is genuine faith in Jesus and we will never die stuck in our sins. That’s great news!

Awwww...it sounds like Stephen needs a hug.

Soft kitty,

Warm kitty,

Little ball of fur.

Happy kitty,

Sleepy kitty,

Purr Purr Purr

Soft kitty,

Warm kitty,

Little ball of fur.

Happy kitty,

Sleepy kitty,

Purr Purr Purr

Big Bang theory is sure fun tv show, even tho big bang didnt happen.

Father is the one who controls Hell, Jesus even went to Hell for 3 days.

God is not bound by any rule he sets for humans. If he tells us to love and forgive constantly, it does not mean he has to do either.

We are servants, slaves even. He is the King.

We are servants, slaves even. He is the King.

No, we are puppets of God. God controls each person completely. Free will is a lie. Everything person does is just God pulling the strings. Praise the puppet master!!!

Jesus literally taught "do not resist the evildoer", "who lives by the sword dies by the sword", "God is good to both good and evil", "love those who persecute you"...

But no mention of loving and forgiving Judas... or Satan come to that. Which is the point of this thread.

God is not bound by any rule he sets for humans......it does not mean he has to do either.

Is god not ruled by his own character?

If he tells us to love and forgive constantly,

Which is the point I am making in the OP. As in, there was no love nor forgiveness for Judas and Satan. Unless you know different?

We are servants, slaves even. He is the King.

Slaves is about right,

Jesus literally taught "do not resist the evildoer", "who lives by the sword dies by the sword", 

Indeed . but didn't he also say: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.?

Matthew 10:34-36KJV

Well so far is all you have done is make unsupported statements. Why are you not willing to answer any questions, ?

You have replied to me alone but half of your post quoted another user.

No, we are puppets of God. God controls each person completely. Free will is a lie. Everything person does is just God pulling the strings. Praise the puppet master!!!

I reject Calvinism but that is indeed what Calvinism strongly implies.

God is not bound by any rule he sets for humans......it does not mean he has to do either.

Is god not ruled by his own character?

Not exactly.

God has 3 persons. They actually have differing personality traits but of course share some as well.

Only Holy Spirit is definitively known or thought of as purely loving and peaceful. Yeshua/Jesus the Christ is definitely also described as loving but not necessarily peaceful (despite what modern Christians state). Father, in contrast, is described as loving in a sense you can earn more or lose degrees of it based on works. Judaism insisted on this and Old Testament strongly implies it. What changed is with the Christ Messiah, it was made clear that Jews had got this wrong. It seems based especially on Paul's interpretations later and the book of John quoting even Yeshua himself at times, that faith in Yeshua/Jesus and modelling God through him are essential. Yeshua preached more universal love and forgiveness than the Tanakh/Old Testament imply.

So, to clarify, with regards to love, it would not seem that Father is bound by unconditional love for all nor intantaneous forgiveness, only the other 2 are and in reality it is specifically Holy Spirit that is said to have completely unconditional love. Son/Yeshua/Jesus the Christ is said to have love but clearly since he's a major factor in the final Judgement if not actually promoted above Father in this (the final judgement is by Jesus/Yeshua specifically, Father lets him do most of the judging it would seem), it implies that Yeshua knowingly does deem people worthy of Hell vs Heaven. What is also clear is Father runs Hell, not Son specifically.

You have replied to me alone but half of your post quoted another user.

Which particular user are you referring to?

SatanLucy it seems or yourself.

Idk why you're arguing against yourself.

GreatfulGoy wrote: God is not bound by any rule he sets for humans......it does not mean he has to do either.

Stephen wrote :Is god not ruled by his own character?

GreatfulGoy wrote:Not exactly.

But doesn't the bible state that gods word is: "immutable"?

GreatfulGoy wrote:So, to clarify, with regards to love, it would not seem that Father is bound by unconditional love for all nor intantaneous forgiveness,

So then god is bound by his word then. I asked you if he was ruled by his own character or not and you danced around and came up with the "trinity" argument. Which is nothing more than a philosophical idea among much other Niceane dogma. And in my opinion it was a poor idea in response to awkward question such as those posed by myself above. In English that would be to say the trinity is most definitely UN-biblical, unless you can show us otherwise.

Regardless: so has Jesus forgiven Judas or Satan come to that, considering that everything is planned and is Gods will to begin with?

You have replied to me alone but half of your post quoted another user.

Which particular user are you referring to?

SatanLucy it seems or yourself.

I responded to SatanLucy at 13 highlighted above.

Idk why you're arguing against yourself.

Not at all.

I created a thread to discuss what I consider to be a seemingly biblical contradiction and it now seems it has turned out to be a biblical dilemma.

Maybe I should try something a little more easier with my next thread.

even tho big bang didn't happen.

Correct.

No noise, no intense visual sensation.

Just an unwitnessed and intense moment of particulate dispersal and reaction.

Let's just call it THE BIG EVENT.

And many billions of years later, some thicko's invented GOD's and religions.

A contradiction in the bible? What a surprise. Lol.

The Bible doesn't explicitly say Jesus forgave Judas, but most interpretations suggest Judas wasn't forgiven because he didn't genuinely repent and seek forgiveness, instead succumbing to remorse and taking his own life, unlike Peter who also betrayed Jesus but sought forgiveness and was redeemed. While Jesus's mercy was vast, Judas's actions showed a hardened heart, choosing despair and self-destruction over turning back to Christ, even though the potential for forgiveness was there if he had truly sought it. 

The Bible doesn't explicitly say Jesus forgave Judas, but most interpretations suggest Judas wasn't forgiven because he didn't genuinely repent and seek forgiveness, instead succumbing to remorse and taking his own life [.....]

Why hadn't a single one of those present recognized a demon when they seen one and cast him out?  Nearly over 70 of his disciples had only recently been bragging about how they had cast out demons after being endowed with superpowers?.

Now the seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name!” Luke 10:17kjv

The disciples only received the gifts of healing after Jesus departed.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.