How much do you know about the Christ Messiah prophecies of Book of Isaiah (this is Judaism not Christianity originally)?

I'm going to have to go with Albert Einstein's thinking on this one. Despite Einstein’s open identification with Judaism, his feelings on it were the same: ‘For me the unadulterated Jewish religion is, like all other religions, an incarnation of primitive superstition. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong, and in whose mentality I feel profoundly anchored, still for me does not have any different kind of dignity from all other peoples. As far as my experience goes, they are in fact no better than other human groups, even if they are protected from the worst excesses by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot perceive anything “chosen” about them.’

Christians believe God became flesh in Jesus Christ primarily 

to save humanity from sin, making a way for reconciliation, revealing God's deep love, providing a model for holy living, and enabling humans to become partakers in the divine nature by experiencing human life, suffering, and temptation, so that God could understand and redeem them fully. This central doctrine, called the Incarnation (from John 1:14, "the Word became flesh"), means Jesus is both fully God and fully man, bridging the gap between the divine and human worlds. 

Jesus said, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" in a moment of intense anguish during his crucifixion, as recorded in Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34.

How much do you know about the Christ Messiah prophecies of Book of Isaiah (this is Judaism not Christianity originally)?

You are welcome to inform me, if you believe I have misunderstood anything? So when you are ready, you have my full attention.

Christians believe God became flesh in Jesus Christ primarily to save humanity from sin.

You have been relying on the unreliable AI again, I see. So let me tell you: God was forgiving the sins of his human creation well before the BIBLE says; he

become flesh. Indeed he forgave the whole nation of Israel quite a few times.

So, you have yet to explain why it is that Christians believe God had to become flesh?

Jesus said, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" in a moment of intense anguish during his crucifixion, as recorded in Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34.

Indeed, and once again proving that Jesus could not have also been god.

God is just.

Are you sure about that? Didn't he kill two of his trusted servants simply because they used the wrong "foreign " fire?

And then there was poor Uzzah . Didn't god kill him for simply trying to save Israel's most precious possession?. And who amongst us can forget the unjust treatment of his "most faithful servant", Job. Didn't god he sanction the killing of all 10 of Jobs children, destroy his home and kill all of his livestock for a bet? Don't make me laugh . All sounds pretty un-just to me. Unless you can justify it all.

And none of this explains why god had to become flesh, and why Christians believe he did, as per OP, does it, wylted

Morning Stephen.

Yes, such were Judeo-Arabian derivatives of wider and older regional folktales and paganism.

And such was the necessity of thinker based thought GODS, to become thought flesh and to be transcribed into a new book of folktales.

Folktales that would later become the basis of power crazed and wealth hungry theo-political organizations.

Yes, intellect has it's ups and downs.

Morning Serge.

wealth hungry theo-political organizations.

Indeed, we are, through out the NT told about Jesus' poverty and how he and the boys were supported by women, which a just a quick flick through its pages reveals that Jesus himself from day one was quite wealthy as were the the boys. He had rich friends in high places ( and low ones too). One has to wonder what Mary and Jo did with all that gold those wise astronomers from the East gave them not to mention those expensive oils & perfumes that they also gave them and that were said to be worth over a years wages, according to the thief and betrayer Judas?

John 12:5 “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages".

We can only guess they gave everything to the "poor"?

Remember Jesus’s ministry lasted only 3 years.

You've been given Bible verses that support Jesus as God. You choose not to believe it, even if you have your reasons, you still can't deny that you are choosing to ignore explicit support for the idea.

Different models of Christian atonement exist. These models by design require that Jesus be God for their design to work. Could everything about God and Jesus be true without the Jesus as God thing being true? Of course. God can do anything but it's not part of any standard model. If a reason you don't want to be Christian is because you don't want to believe that Jesus is God then by all means become a Christian with that astericks. I just choose orthodoxy unless I have a good reason to reject a certain belief and your hang ups on Jesus as God aren't good enough for me to reject orthodox view of the matter. But you do you

John 12:5 “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages".

John 12:5 from the Bible features 

Judas Iscariot questioning Mary of Bethany's anointing of Jesus with expensive perfume, asking why it wasn't sold (worth about a year's wages) to give to the poor, but Jesus reveals Mary's act was preparation for His burial, as commented on in BibleHub and BibleGateway. 

You've been given Bible verses that support Jesus as God. You choose not to believe it, even if you have your reasons, you still can't deny that you are choosing to ignore explicit support for the idea.

Nope. I've' been shown nothing that supports the Christian idea the Jesus is also God. So lets see them.

Quite the opposite. I have offered just a few of many verses that show Jesus is not god and could not be god ( unless he talks to himself a lot). And further, I believe Jesus would have been outraged and appalled that a whole new religion had been allowed to spring up in his name and that this said religion was preaching that he was actually god almighty himself!!!. It seems to have slipped the mind of the Christian that Jesus was a full blown Jew.

SO, let's see those BIBLE verses that you claim support the Christian idea that Jesus is also god.

John 12:5 from the Bible features 

Judas Iscariot questioning Mary of Bethany's anointing of Jesus with expensive perfume, asking why it wasn't sold (worth about a year's wages) to give to the poor, but Jesus reveals Mary's act was preparation for His burial, as commented on in BibleHub and BibleGateway. 

So! what's your point?

Remember Jesus’s ministry lasted only 3 years.

So! what's your point?

Because Jesus had so little time left on earth, he could not devote all his energy saving the poor. He had to spread his love around.

Look in that thread you made about whether jesus is god. I gave plenty of explicit support. You can interpret another way or say they are contradictions but dont pretend theres no biblical or historical support for the idea. It just makes you look narrow minded

...

He is not a practicing Christian so he needs to refresh his positions.

Look in that thread you made about whether jesus is god. I gave plenty of explicit support. You can interpret another way or say they are contradictions but dont pretend theres no biblical or historical support for the idea. It just makes you look narrow minded

Nope. And I think you have the wrong title. I have said Jesus IS NOT god, period! not where he is or not. And I countered all your claims with BIBLICAL verses that are not MY interpretations but the bibles! What you have done on that thread is offer nothing more than verses that only suggest that Jesus may be god. Where as I have shown you verses that categorically state there is no god but GOD!.

SO, not wanting to cross thread here I suggest that you go back and support you very flawed clams I will be more than pleased to engage you.

Here you are>>>https://www.debatecraft.com/forum/c/religion/posts/iw/jesus-is-not-god

Hope to see you soon.

Off you go now.

Jesus had so little time left on earth, he could not devote all his energy saving the poor. He had to spread his love around.

Oh stop it ffs!

We are suppose to be talking about a man that was also a god aren't we? A miracle worker no less!!

And you still haven't managed to tell us why God had to become flesh nor why Christians believe that he did?

Jesus had to become flesh (human) to fully represent humanity, suffer and die as the perfect sacrifice for sins (since God can't die), fulfill God's law, offer empathy, and serve as the human mediator to reconcile people to God, defeating sin and Satan by experiencing human life, temptation, and death to bring redemption and reveal God's love. 

Key Reasons for the Incarnation:

1. To Be a Substitute: As God, Jesus couldn't die, but as a man, He could take the penalty for human sin, becoming the perfect innocent sacrifice needed for atonement.
2. To Fulfill the Law: Jesus lived a perfect human life, obeying God where Adam failed, fulfilling righteousness and earning righteousness for believers.
3. To Empathize & Represent: Being fully human allowed Him to understand human weakness and temptation, and to serve as our High Priest and representative before God.
4. To Defeat Sin & Death: By living sinless, dying, and rising in the flesh, He conquered sin, Satan, and death, liberating humanity from their power.
5. To Reveal God: The "Word became flesh" (John 1:14) meant God became tangible, showing His love, grace, and truth in a way humans could understand and experience.
6. To Reconcile Humanity: The incarnation bridged the infinite gap caused by sin, restoring the broken relationship between God and humanity through Jesus's life, death, and resurrection. 

In essence, Jesus became flesh so God could bridge the chasm of sin and offer redemption from within the human experience, something only a perfect, divine-yet-human being could accomplish. 

Jesus had to become flesh (human) to fully represent humanity, suffer and die as the perfect sacrifice for sins (since God can't die), fulfill God's law, offer empathy, and serve as the human mediator to reconcile people to God, defeating sin and Satan by experiencing human life, temptation, and death to bring redemption and reveal God's love. 

The only part of that above that agrees with what the bible actually says is that Jesus was nothing more than a human "mediator".

Debby wrote: to fulfill His mission and experience human life,

Why did he- god - have to experience human life?

According to Christian theology, God (as Jesus) experienced human life 

to bridge the gap caused by sin, serve as a perfect High Priest and Mediator, demonstrate ultimate love, provide a model for holiness, and enable humanity to become partakers in the divine nature, fulfilling salvation and revealing God's glory through suffering and grace. 

Reasons for the Incarnation (God becoming human):

1. To Save Humanity: Sin separated people from God, and only a perfect, God-man could bridge this divide, offering forgiveness and reconciliation through his sacrificial death.
2. To Be Our Mediator: Jesus needed a human nature to represent humanity before God, acting as the one mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5).
3. To Suffer and Sympathize: His human experience allowed him to be tempted and suffer, making him a merciful High Priest who could sympathize with human weakness (Hebrews 2:17).
4. To Fulfill Righteousness: Jesus had to live a perfect human life, obeying God where Adam failed, to fulfill God's justice and earn righteousness for others.
5. To Show God's Love: The incarnation demonstrated God's immense love for humanity by entering into their world and sharing their suffering, proving He hadn't abandoned them.
6. To Model Holiness: Jesus' perfect life provided an example of how humans should live, love, and pray, even amidst suffering.
7. To Transform Humanity: By becoming human, Jesus made it possible for humans, through the Spirit, to become adopted children of God and share in His divine nature (2 Peter 1:4). 

In essence, God didn't experience human life out of necessity for Himself, but as a chosen act of love and redemption for humanity, enabling salvation, reconciliation, and divine transformation. 

Debby wrote: to fulfill His mission and experience human life,

Stephen wrote: Why did he- god - have to experience human life?

Debby wrote: According to Christian theology, God (as Jesus) experienced human life.To Save Humanity: Sin separated people from God, and only a perfect, God-man could bridge this divide, offering forgiveness and reconciliation through his sacrificial death.

Indeed it is only Christian theology, an idea and nothing more.. And proves nothing , In fact, it shows Jesus to be ONLY a man. A mediator as all human Priests are.

To Be Our Mediator: Jesus needed a human nature to represent humanity before God, acting as the one mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5).

CORRECT, a "mediator" only. As Timothy states clearly :1 Timothy 2:5KJV

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

To Suffer and Sympathize: His human experience allowed him to be tempted and suffer, making him a merciful High Priest who could sympathize with human weakness (Hebrews 2:17).

So now your claim is that God had to take on human form to understand the suffering of men and why the can be tempted?

FFS! we are talking GOD! our creator here!. Are you saying the God that created us didn't understand his own creation? That couldn't understand our suffering, unless he became human?

I really do wish you would read your bible for yourself "Debby".You keep coming across as a clown and a bible dunce. Read these simple verses :

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Heb 4. 15-16kjv

I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Rev, 2-9 kjv

So you see, god understood his human creation perfectly. He knew our suffering and why we are sometimes tempted. He did after all, create Satan, the great tempter and corrupter of humanity too.

To Fulfill Righteousness: Jesus had to live a perfect human life, obeying God where Adam failed, to fulfill God's justice and earn righteousness for others.

Again you are making yourself out to be a complete and utter bible dunce. And here's why:

And he[Jesus] said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Mat 9-17 kjv

So here Jesus denies being even good and he certainly doesn't say that he is "perfect", does he?

In essence, God didn't experience human life out of necessity for Himself,

Stop it!! the god of the OT speaks about nothing but himself Me, me me, I, I, I. fk me haven't you read the commandments? They are nearly all about or to do with himself!

I give up on you "Debby". And I don't know why you bother yourself?

And if you want to discuss gods "Love " start a thread. I'll show god version of love. And I'll start with this. God of the OT only mentions the word love himself just once. And that is only in relation to someone else loving someone else.

According to Christian theology, Jesus was fully human, experiencing human life, emotions, and limitations (hunger, thirst, pain, death) while also being fully divine, a concept known as the Hypostatic Union, meaning He is one person with two natures (God and man) without mixing or separation, essential for His role as redeemer and sympathetic high priest. Biblical accounts detail His human birth, growth, weariness, and suffering, while also affirming His divinity, making Him the perfect mediator who can both represent humanity and save it.  

Evidence of His Humanity:

1. Birth & Growth: Born of a human mother, Mary, and grew from infancy to adulthood. 
2. 
   
3. Physical Experiences: Felt hunger (Matthew 4:2), thirst (John 19:28), fatigue (John 4:6), sleep, and pain. 
4. 
   
5. Emotions: Showed joy, grief, weeping, and fear. 
6. 
   
7. Death: Experienced physical death, as recorded in the Gospels. 
8. 
   

Theological Significance:

1. Incarnation: God took on human flesh, becoming fully human and fully God. 
2. 
   
3. Redemption: His perfect humanity allowed Him to represent humanity and offer a sacrifice for sin, undoing Adam's disobedience. 
4. 
   
5. Sympathy: His shared human nature enables Him to sympathize with human weaknesses and temptations (Hebrews 4:15). 
6. 
   

Key Doctrine: 

1. The concept of Jesus being both fully God and fully man (Hypostatic Union) was formally affirmed by early church councils, like the Council of Chalcedon, to counter early heresies that denied His true humanity (Docetism) or divinity.

According to Christian theology, Jesus was fully human[.................]

Yes we know, because the BIBLE makes that more than clear and that is where you should have stopped. Even one of those theologian scholars you like to mention and look up to has had to say:

"During his lifetime Jesus himself didn't call himself god and didn't consider himself to be god. And none of his disciples had even an inkling at all that he was god". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C96FPHRTuQU

Ergo only human not god become flesh.

Christian theology teaches Jesus had to be fully human and fully divine (God), the "God-man," for salvation: He needed to be human to represent humanity and die as a perfect sacrifice for sins (as only a human could die), and divine to have the power to atone for the sins of the world, making salvation possible and ultimate. This union of natures, called the Incarnation, allowed God to fully experience human life, suffering, and temptation, becoming a sympathetic High Priest who understands our struggles. 

Why Both Natures Were Necessary:

1. For Redemption: As a man, Jesus could represent humanity and die in our place, fulfilling God's justice for sin.
2. For Power: As God, His sacrifice had infinite value, capable of atoning for the sins of all people, not just one.
3. For Sympathy: His complete humanity (experiencing hunger, pain, emotions) allows Him to understand and intercede for human weaknesses.
4. For the "God-Man": He is one Person with two distinct, inseparable natures (divine and human), not half-God/half-man or God in disguise. 

Biblical Basis:

1. John 1:14: "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us".
2. Hebrews 2:17: States Jesus had to be "fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest".
3. Colossians 2:9: Affirms "the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form in Christ". 

Key Takeaway: Jesus' dual nature as 100% God and 100% man is central to Christianity, providing the bridge for God to save humanity, as emphasized by the doctrines of the Incarnation and the councils of the early church.