1990s-2000s Nostalgia Mafia (DP2)

Again, dude, I do not get your priorities at all. You've spoken repeatedly, over and over again from the start of this DP, of being able to solve this game and pursuing that. Yet, here you are, arguing that we shouldn't solve because there's anti-claim on the table and roles could get fucked with in the night... just after saying that you want Pie to role claim. Seriously, at least be somewhat consistent. I'll ask again: why, specifically, do you not want REF to claim? What hints has he given you about his role that make you trust him going into this DP? If you have none, what if any is the actual fucking point of waiting on his claim while you are actively seeking Pie's role?

2) you explain how anything he says affects what happened. I invite him to say something that affected it. If I’m wrong. As a scum hes just going to shut up and let it ride. The only person who would say something is town. So sure if he has info that changes my analysis. I invite him to claim or speak up

3) you tell me how him claiming helps get the lynch right? If he had relevant info he would say it. As scum if the lynch is wrong he doesn’t speak anyway.

So now the onus is on me to explain how an unknown claim from REF could affect the game. I don't know. Neither do you. He's a black box, he could have any role, so I can't say what his completely unknown role could do to affect the outcome of this DP or the next. The absence of that role claim certainly isn't helping remove him from POE or lock him into any expectation of what he'll do next NP. I have no idea how that helps us.

And if he's not going to speak at all, for the next 2 full days, then that should implicate him too. I'll ask again: why is this a reason not to seek his claim?

Vote Count

Awesome (1/4) Mikal 

Not voting: (5/6): ILikePie, Awesome5000, Airmax1227, Rex, Whiteflame 

With 6 players alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Day phase 2 will end on Saturday 9/20/2025 @ 6:00 PM EST unless there is a majority. 

Please explain to me both scenarios.

as town I concede. If he has something that altered last night. He should speak up

as scum. Please explain in which case he would ever derail a mislynch and what him fake claiming does to contribute to finding out I’m wrong. Any scenario you can imagine.

I'm not playing this vague game. The only value you've claimed to his silence is that we potentially get some unknown night action from him that isn't interfered with NP2. We lynch correctly this DP or we lose. Figuring out potential scum pairings should be part of basic town strategy this DP. If we're just going to lynch Awesome and hope for the best, we better at least have some idea who is likely scum partner is before we do it, and I don't see any reason why we wouldn't inform that as fully as possible.

I'm leaving this conversation here because this is going nowhere and I'd like to hear from one of the other four people left in this game. If there is widespread agreement that REF's claim doesn't matter because he might fake claim or just clam up if he's scum, or because he might be interfered with in the night if he's town, then I'll go with the group, but it makes 0 sense to me.

Again give me a reason that it makes sense for him to claim

1) as town is his info pertinent to this lynch. If so yes, he should claim. If no explain the value in having it now when it exposes him to anti claim if it does not offer a better target or provide something that invalidates my read

2) as scum do you think he’s going to claim

something that is inconsistent with other NP actions that have already been outlined? If so you think he’s dumb. Also as scum do you think he’s going to derail a mislynch when it’s gg.

my point is he’s going to claim something as scum safe enough to not change anything but if he’s town (outside of having info that alters this path) the only thing it’s doing is exposing him to anti claim

please give me any scneario like 1. Where anything he says as scum is valid. WhT

do you think. He’s going to be like. Oh yeah I role blocked him to derail it lol?

if he’s a town jailkeeper that targeted me. Then sure he needs to talk.

I'm convinced at this point that WF is scum and is trying to confirm the last mislynch by covering for his scum partner. Only thing about TP is that I can't see why a TP would fakeclaim as cop to clear another player. Seems like an unnecessary risk and more of a scum move. Pushing my claim is super sus. Mikal already made a good case. If we have an ironclad case, why claim today? If I die in the night (highly probable, I'm the last wildcard for scum) you will see it tomorrow. If not, I will claim first thing next DP because the game will be almost over at that point. Whiteflame is acting like anticlaim just doesn't exist. If I were scum and we were at MYLO/LYLO why not cc someone or fabricate results to secure the last lynch?

David said he 'can't answer' my question on whether an oblique claim could dodge anticlaim so that makes me even less amenable to it.

One thing that makes me scumread Awesome outside of Mikal's analysis is the fact that he says that he didn't block chat. Why the hell would you not do that? As town, why would you not deprive scum of their daychat during a critical DP? I feel like he's afraid that Max was bluffing about his role failing to catch him out on his role being fake. The motivation only makes sense as scum. What benefit could a non-affiliation confirming town daychat confer that would possibly outweigh depriving scum of one of their greatest advantages?

Also yes. I want pie to role claim because he’s all but said he’s innocent child. It’s entirely relevant. Also I asked for just his role and not his character

I mean if im wrong im wrong but I know mu

logic is right regardless of the flip. I have damming info on Awsome so barring skep affecting that. Him claiming does nothing

Not even that. As a scum you would just validate my results if im up the wrong tree. That’s my point. It does nothing

To move past this. Do you have anything to offer that could change or alters my results?

I love how both Mikal and REF are justifying the decision for the latter not to claim on the basis that this lynch is absolutely assured to be scum. I understand the basis for Mikal thinking that since he has solid evidence to that effect. REF should at least be a little unsure. Both of them keep talking about all the WIFOM reasons why scum would fake well or use their fake claim in a way that nets them an obvious lynch (as if there's no obvious lynch on the table that requires absolutely none of that).

Do any of the three of you agree that the priority should be to avoid further claims, even among players everyone has acknowledged are in POE, in MYLO/LYLO on the basis that we might get a night action that isn't meddled with? Seriously, polling the room on this.

You may as well appeal to max and pie. No idea why you are tagging your scum partner.

You may as well appeal to max and pie. No idea why you are tagging your scum partner.

Think you're slick, huh?

No, I'm basing the game at this point on balance, behavior, and trusting the results of people whom I townread. The flips of the two people you town-confirmed basically make you quaranteed town in my eyes. Less sure about Pie or Max, but you vouch for Max. Your results and his behavior make Awesome scum in my book, and WF to me seems scum by behavior and balance. Could it be pie? Maybe. But we can figure that out next DP.

No, I'm basing the game at this point on balance, behavior, and trusting the results of people whom I townread. The flips of the two people you town-confirmed basically make you quaranteed town in my eyes. Less sure about Pie or Max, but you vouch for Max. Your results and his behavior make Awesome scum in my book, and WF to me seems scum by behavior and balance. Could it be pie? Maybe. But we can figure that out next DP.

Series of simple questions

1) do you think anti claim exists? You yourself made an entire case it does because it’s nasty.

2) if skep is town. Does exposing him to anti claim harm us?

3) as town do you agree the only time you typically out your role is when you have relevant info

4) as scum do you think he would say anything that alters me causing a mislynch if awesome was town (if I’m wrong I’m wrong but it changes nothing) he would claim passive shit and let me run us off a cliff

if 4 is true then do you not agree that the risk of 1,2, and 3 is a reason for him not to claim. As him claiming as scum does not change anything. It only hurts us if he’s town

I'm done talking to these two until the rest of you get in here to expand the conversation. Tag/sus me all you want at this point, I'll focus on the rest of the group.

TP speculation is a distraction at this point because even if we figured out who they were lynching them would cause us to lose.

example: literally every question Mikal just gave me, I covered already.

The only thing you said was

him claiming at mylo should be done for Poe when we have a person that is already locked as scum. You still have yet to validate the above points. As town it hurts us and as scum it won’t change the mislynch. He’s not going to just claim godfather or jailkeeper. He’s going to claim something super obscure or safe and we will sus it and still kill awesome because of the results. If awesome is town we have already lost. Him claiming does not change that course.

all this back and forth is kinda useless. As I just need pie to say he’s inno or not and we either have Poe or pie is the last scum

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Mikal is not townlocked. If his result is correct, then he’s strongly implicated Awesome. That is not and should not be treated as a given. He’s demonstrated his Popular role. That’s it. He’s claimed a type of Caroler that is distinct from any I’ve seen before - part of the balance of that role is potentially being able to send results to scum, but now it auto-validates someone must be scum if they didn’t get a result. It’s possible. It’s confusing as hell from a balance perspective, particularly on a player who can’t be NK’d.

Just because he claimed early and pointed out mod confirmations for two players who are conspicuously dead now does not mean he’s town locked, and I don’t know why anyone aside from him would treat Mikal as obvious town at this point. It’s particularly baffling coming from REF. If he disbelieves the role balance in this game, as he said he does, both of us should be questionable to him but he’s all in on my being scum.

i have outright claimed my role. Validated popular and have been nothing but consistent this entire game with what I said. Other than how the role functions. Specifically said anyone could get it so I was less likely to be fucked with (thinking scum eould hope they could get results and fake it )

yes my role - which tbf is functionally useless as everyone can move. I happened to have one person said he can’t move and went with the logical answer

I have hinted at this the entire dp and even you said everything I softed made logical sense. Now you are backing tracking that as a balance once I am agree out with someone that claiming is useless because if anti claim.

the reason I’m asking pie - is inno child. He cannot have results

and not skep - he’s a gaping hole on what we can do. He may be able to get results.

is that anti claim could actively hurt results. It baffles me what case you are trying to make or even the logic.

I’ll say it again. If awesome is town the game is over

what pie says largely changes tomorrow from Poe

I will say the only missing piece to this puzzle is who unsaid shot

because the only person he was sus on was awesome and you. He did flip his read on you but off eveyrthing he said , he said he scumread awesome.

if someone can explain to me how my role didn’t work when max was also role blocked then im game to listen. Max would have had to have been anti claimed.

I think for a fact. It has to be awesome +1

or it’s exactly pie and skep

you can’t be scum and awesome be town because you would be pushing this already.

Back-tracking? I’ve said repeatedly, multiple times over the course of this DP, that I have trouble buying that we’re both in this game. It makes sense why you behaved the way you did given your claim. That’s true whether it’s real or fake. And I’ve been saying, over and over again, that your result is valid if that’s actually your role, which is an assumption that comes with absolutely no validation at this point. Yes, you boldly claimed early. Yes, beyond the slight variation of your Caroler role (which dramatically shifts how it balances itself), you’ve been consistent with that claim. What evidence do we have that you are actually the Caroler or BP? Is consistency evidence?

Consistency is a massive indicator yes.

On a claim that was never likely to get directly CC’d unless there is a Dreamer in the game or another BP? If you’re scum, you absolutely would have taken that risk. It’s not a massive one.

I would absolutely not have claimed out the gate. It would have to have been a fake claim. So unless you think im popular mafia pulling somrthing it largely makes no sense.

especially since as mafia I would not know the balance and have access to a fake claim (which David confirmed he provided)

so you think I openly claimed this when they were given a fake a claim?

so you think I openly claimed this when they were given a fake a claim?

I think it’s entirely plausible, particularly if you received a fake claim of Dreamer. Easy enough to intuit that there’s no Caroler, that the latter is easier to fake claim (you wouldn’t have to know if you were visited and failures have several explanations) and go ahead with it. It’s not my working assumption atm, but I can’t dismiss it, either.