Suikoden Mafia DP2

I say we lynch tomorrow

Low-key I wana vtnl 

and just had everyone in the game target Pie and Thoth and not say who they are going to target and if an action goes through we know which one is bullshitting. 

Im 100% confirmable. Thoth has backtracked after claiming Ascetic saying:

Thoth are you able to be visited by a role or is it blocked? Why is the word ascetic in your PM if not?

[It doesn't block them. I think I can be visited.]

I forgot about this.

fml

unvote

If you're Thoth and scum why tf do you tack the Ascetic onto Leprechaun

Cause he didn’t know what Mikal did at that point in time besides the fact that Mikal had something implicating on Thoth

I wana look back over why supa claimed.

he said Thoth was pushing him

The way Thoth is describing his role is that he’s immune to dying except by lynch. I don’t know why he’s concerned about dying. He can’t be targeted by non-lethal actions. He can’t be strongmanned. He’s basically immune to everything except being lynched

I mean I agree he is scum but I don't know where you are getting all that. My understanding is that he doesn't even know what an ascetic is. I asked him if he could be targeted by other roles and he said yes.

VTl pie

I wana go pie first then if he flips down get Thoth. Order doesn’t matter. I can’t shake this.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExbTVqeDRpa3V6bTdrbjl5amF6bnM4dzlhODg2eTM0dTBheTdoMm51NyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/ehgM41tjEIuXXRz1S7/giphy.gif

I also hate how Mikal is still saying that a Doc and a BG is a CC. Sorry I still think that is not a CC in a 13 person game where they have 2 different mechanics. TBH I am questioning Mikal here because I just feel he has a strong enough presence in this game where he’s going to command game and maybe force a couple of votes to go that way. Very little is known about the theme from most people and he’s the only one with commanding knowledge. I feel like he’s got to be town but I have a funny feeling because there’s no way that you play with Pie so much that you think he’s CC’ing an Aethestic role when he had my mislynch literally right there

I was actually thinking about this longer. I think usually Doc and Bodyguard do conflict, but usually doesn't really apply to this game. I am thinking in terms of 9 player games which we usually play. Now that I think about it, we have a 13 player game with multiple killing factions, a few extra protective roles might actually make sense. Then again, I am not sure there would be 4 of them, so I think bare minimum there is at least one scum in these protective claims. I also didn't factor in potential x shots which depending on how many protective shots we all share together could make more sense with the balance. I don't want to get too much into asking about that though because the townie response should always be "I have unlimited shots" even if they are one shot, to keep mafia guessing. That said, I will admit I maybe jumped the gun in assuming you were scum. Though I will say bodyguard is a common fake claim, I am not gonna lynch you for your role alone. Maybe I will thoth though, because there is behavior reasoning behind him as well as the claim is just inherently bad...

Sticking up for me as a TP and then teaming up with me would be some crazy ass shit.

But your such a good scum mate in general I probably would do it for you only. <3

Got a response:

If you are the BG, I successfully Strengthened you, and you used your role on the target of the NK, you would not die nor would your target. You also couldn’t be RB’d or redirected.

Bro I have this fucking sinking feeling we are going to vote Thoth and get fucked by Pie and Luna

It is odd you are so paranoid of me considering I actually haven't fvcked you over as scum once since you have returned to mafia. Yet I still have to see this argument being made every game we play lol

But your such a good scum mate in general I probably would do it for you only. <3

Love you too, buddy.

I just know they have like infinite recruit or some shit and we are going to kill and the game is over.

I agree with pie. If they have anything more than like a one shot recruit, this game is bastard and I officially dont give a fvck about the decision. recruitment in general is pretty OP if not managed well. Thats why you stopped seeing cults on DDO

Anyways I probably wont remove my vote from thoth here, but if we do vtnl I suppose its not the end of the world considering we had a mis-vig, we can count that as todays mislynch. Though I don't really understand the hesitance on thoth other than just irrational paranoia.

VTL Pie

The best-laid plans of wolves and town go oft awry, but my working hypothesis is:

1. Pie is scum
2. Pie may or may not be Ascetic; if not, he is probably claiming the role Janitored from Shining
3. Pie and his unknown scummate(s) tried to kill Mikal, which I moved to Shining
4. Realizing that their NK was worthless and that at least Pie was being scumread, scum figured they had to get a recruit tonight; that's a serious incentive, re: post #670
5. Assuming the recruit is tied to a specific person, they had to get the recruiter to EoD, even if an accusation that will be agreed upon as false will get them turbolynched so it's effectively a delayed Yakuza
6. Pie opportunistically counter-claimed Ascetic because he thought people would probably buy his counter-claim on a role that sounds outrageous, most likely because he is the recruiter, but possibly because someone else is the recruiter and he wanted to keep them off the block

From my perspective, knowing that I'm Ascetic, I want Pie voted out because I strongly doubt that he is Ascetic, although from another townie's perspective I would probably prefer a VTNL and collective Ascetic-check of myself and Pie. However, y'all need to harden your hearts for the possibility that both Pie and I will have been confirmed Ascetic tomorrow. In that case, speaking from an outsider's perspective, you should assume that exactly one of us is scum because two Ascetics make more sense on opposite teams. We couldn't both be Ascetic scum because scum wouldn't have counter-claimed each other. And we should VTL Rex.

Honestly I am trolling guys. The justification for the leprechaun is ridiculous LOL. I was hoping to piss somebody off and go back and forth with them for a while and nobody took the bait. You guys aren't fun anymore there is no way ref is like your name kinda sounds like leprechaun so I guess you have a pot of gold power LOL. I am proud of the claim though, definitely something I would try

What you’re claiming is that you cannot be NKed though. If you pick 3 names including yourself, it means that you’re immune right? If REF tells you that you are the NK, can’t you redirect to a person above you or below you? You’re saying that you’re unkillable.

The way Thoth is describing his role is that he’s immune to dying except by lynch. I don’t know why he’s concerned about dying. He can’t be targeted by non-lethal actions. He can’t be strongmanned. He’s basically immune to everything except being lynched

Have you asked Rex if you're allowed to include yourself in a 3 player selection

I'm not unkillable. I still die if the kill ends up on me. I can include myself in my selection, but I wouldn't necessarily want to depending on WIFOM and who I think the kill target will be. I can move the kill onto or off of myself as with any other player, if I'm in my selection.

Why is that not possible? Scum JOATs and Town JOATs have coexisted for eons

(Post #626) I may have misunderstood you slightly. I thought you were saying that I can't be Ascetic if you are Ascetic. If you were just saying that, if you were Ascetic town, then I could only be Ascetic if I were scum, I misunderstood you, but I get the feeling that other people did too.

In response to anyone saying I backtracked about being Ascetic: I just wasn't clear on how best to describe it or whether or not visitors on me would be roleblocked per se. If you have any questions about how exactly my Ascetic works, ask me so I can forward it to Rex and give you his answer.

"Strengthening" must be the final boss of pronunciation for English-as-a-second-language speakers.

I don’t see barbosa and just being aesthetic and I basically told him this before he claimed it. The lepant claim is retarted I don’t think Thoth claims it. It does make sense too and I don’t think Thoth wrote that

(Post #641) So you think my claim is retarded, but it also makes sense? That's retarded, but it also makes sense.

I am getting more suspicious of a WF / Thoth theme. That said a few of Thoth’s ATE’s post feels towny

(Post #609) ATE?

You’re a claimed JOAT with a 1x JK. Unless all your JOAT trait are protective that’s not really a healing IMO. And even that 3 protective is still not a CC because they are each different mechanically. Not a CC

This argument I can fully see. There being 4 protective should obviously draw flags but I’m not sure either to be honest. The only true protective roles are you and I. Purely protective. Mikal is a JOAT that had a protective role unless all of his roles are protective. Wylted is a 1x poisoner so there’s 1/2 of one, and Thoth. Even then, Thoth and Pie have an actual CC. So that takes out one of the claimed. Then it’s 2 real protective, Mikal’s JOAT, and Wylted.

okay I thought about this and I’m landing on Thoth. Given a question I asked skep. I think wf is also town locked

i don’t think the theme is empire vs not. Ill think longer on the theme but for now the town pool is

max

David

myself

wf

pie - if Thoth flips scum

the entire town pile should mostly be immune to recruit

wf - if Thoth flips town I need you to strengthen me

Actually disregard do not strengthen me

Not to mention wf and I got a response to the questions at the exact same time stamp within mins. So I believe he asked it

Vtl thoth (still can’t bold)

not sure if this is l1 or hammer but with sleep I just can’t shake the fact he said he has 2 roles that do not work at all like they are suppose to. I just don’t think skep gives him aesetic as a claim like word for word aestic and it doesn’t negate roles that visit you. Makes no sense.

I mean I agree he is scum but I don't know where you are getting all that. My understanding is that he doesn't even know what an ascetic is. I asked him if he could be targeted by other roles and he said yes.

I’m pointing out the inconsistencies in his claim. This is the definition of Leprechaun on MU: “The Leprechaun may each night redirect all actions directed at a specific player to the player either directly above or below them in an alphabetized list of currently living players. If any actions were successfully redirected, the Leprechaun will be informed of this.”

1) He’s saying he can pick 3 players as long as they’re next to each other

2) He’s saying REF would tell him if any of the 3 are NKed

3) He could then move the NK to any of the other 2 individuals, but only the NK. Not ALL actions, ONLY the NK

4) He said Strongman would move too. That’s anti-thetical to what a Strongman does. Strongman always reaches its intended target

5) He said he’s Ascetic but he can be visited? I also asked REF what message would a Cop get if they targeted me. REF said “your action failed.” Thoth here is saying they would receive a No Result:

I asked Rex right after I got my role card how Ascetic would interact with some hypothetical roles. He told me that the investigative roles I named would see no result and that the protective roles I named would be told nothing. I inferred from that actions are not roleblocked per se because I presumed that would inform whoever targeted me that they were roleblocked, which may not be true, but Rex hasn't responded to my most recent questions yet.

6) He admitted that he’s unkillable because he can choose his own name and the 2 people next to him on the list. That means, he can’t be target by non-lethal actions, he can’t be killed, he can move Strongmans but not other abilities. Essentially he’s basically a Bulletproof Ascetic Leprechaun.

7) If he’s unkillable, then we have a Bodyguard, Doctor, 1x JK, and basically a Bulletproof

8) His justification for Ascetic is that Lepant stayed on the side lines for a bit. What does that have anything to do with non-lethal actions not affecting you.