(Post #26) You are assuming that a Redirector does not force their target to use an ability they waived. How would you know that WF runs Redirector like that? Did you ask?
I have literally never heard of a redirector working like that, that's a completely different role (motivator I think?)
How do you feel that Wryly TMI'd?
The series of lynches which this town has engaged in has been disastrous for town.
You were on the first one. You didn’t care who to lynch out of Cerulean or Kohai. You were inactive for the entire DP until the last minute where you came to put a vote.
The first was a last-minute lynch in which we targeted an unclaimed player, so it wasn't so revealing. Even scum didn't know that Kohai was the dreamer. In the second we lynched the claimed jailkeeper on incredibly shaky basis, with Pie implying that he had a protective role, then today he's waffled on that and called his claimed role 'semi-protective'.
Wow, more gaslighting. How is it “waffling.” I said an another protective role could exist and may not want to reveal themselves, but that in itself wasn’t an even a major factor in Shining’s lynch. The major factor was that he claimed a character from a different season, and he completely 180ed a read, did not JK Cerulean who he thought was scum, and instead JKed me even though he thought I was a town PR. He was scummy af objectively. And the fact that only you were against it at the end is revealing. You knew he was town and wanted to use it to your advantage while your scum partner was in favor the lynch.
Scum is clearly between Pie and I, as if it weren't one of us would be dead right now and the game would be over.
Yes, and you are scum.
There is one reason that comes to mind for why you would have killed Wryly if you were a scum Neighborizer: she told you that she was a Tracker/Watcher, and you were afraid that she would see something you didn't want her to.
Exactly. She served her purpose in getting the role confirmation from her. And when he realized she’s the Tracker/Watcher it made perfect sense to have his scum partner do the dirty work while he sits on his pedestal and screams “I told you so,” while acting like he did something. When in reality, he just sat there inactive for hours upon hours.
I don’t think it’s Ceru, and I don’t think it’s Rex/Pie
It’s literally Thoth, Rex, or Pie in the POE at this point. Whoever of Rex and Pie is scum is likely the locking the other.
Thoth is also convienantly forgetting about No Ho Hank’s betrayal and trying to align that with a team as well which makes me believe he’s kinda at bat for Pie. I also don’t think he’s considering Pie enough considering that he’s just NOW claiming Hider
I think it’s Thoth / Pie. If I am wrong I am wrong but that’s what my gut is and after Thoth’s response I’m leaning that way
Kick logic to the curb and do the impossible!
I want to make sure I’m at 100% with my read and there’s no doubts so I don’t think I’m voting. I frankily don’t love the Neighborizer and Wryly still never put Rex in a town pile in DP2 even with Neighborizer. I get it, this doesn’t lock Rex as town but imo I still think there’s some bias of town reading someone because you are in a message with them
Kick logic to the curb and do the impossible!
There also is not really a claimed role which I would call “confirmable” or a wild card. Rex’s role fits that wild card motto that I set
Kick logic to the curb and do the impossible!
Interesting fact: Pie has Mentioned me 9 times since this phase has started.
I'll be looking things over now...
I don’t think it’s Ceru, and I don’t think it’s Rex/Pie
It’s literally Thoth, Rex, or Pie in the POE at this point. Whoever of Rex and Pie is scum is likely the locking the other.
Thoth is also convienantly forgetting about No Ho Hank’s betrayal and trying to align that with a team as well which makes me believe he’s kinda at bat for Pie. I also don’t think he’s considering Pie enough considering that he’s just NOW claiming Hider
I think it’s Thoth / Pie. If I am wrong I am wrong but that’s what my gut is and after Thoth’s response I’m leaning that way
Holy shit. Did you not read a single word of what I said. Your thematic analysis doesn’t mean anything when scum could ask about characters or roles. Or they straight claimed their character. It’s all WIFOM. And when was I supposed to claim Hider? Yesterday? DP1? Are you really saying I’m scum cause I coincidentally claimed last. I straight up just was not awake before you and REF claimed.
Let me ask you this. What behavioral reason do you have to townread REF over me. I’ve literally led the entire game.
I want to make sure I’m at 100% with my read and there’s no doubts so I don’t think I’m voting. I frankily don’t love the Neighborizer and Wryly still never put Rex in a town pile in DP2 even with Neighborizer. I get it, this doesn’t lock Rex as town but imo I still think there’s some bias of town reading someone because you are in a message with them
You and I both know that role confirmation does not equal affiliation confirmation. And WF subscribes to the same theory. Go look at REF’s reason for sussing me. It’s a whole load of garbage. He just gave a lazy reason in stopping Shining’s lynch while his scum partner was more than willing to
There also is not really a claimed role which I would call “confirmable” or a wild card. Rex’s role fits that wild card motto that I set
JK is confirmable. Tracker was confirmable if we lynched Ceru. Giving scum a role confirmation is actually broken. I gave a scum messenger once and scum easily won. It’s lazy logic
Interesting fact: Pie has Mentioned me 9 times since this phase has started.
I'll be looking things over now...
What’s new lol. I told WF to spam in the NP too lmao
The fact that he didn't outright counterclaim Earth is also suspect - doing so would set up a 1v1 in town's mind
(Rex, post 17)
Well, no? Hider to me isn't really a full protective like Jailkeeper is. Town!Pie has an incentive to not claim there in that he narrows the POE for the investigative even further than it already was.
I have a team in mind right now, but I think I'll have to take a look back to see if it makes sense.
I think it’s Thoth / Pie. If I am wrong I am wrong but that’s what my gut is and after Thoth’s response I’m leaning that way
I think so as well, for the fact that Thoth is not voting me. If he were town, he thought I were scum, and he thought Pie were town, there would be no reason to not to put a vote on me. His whole spiel basically pushes that narrative with great confidence. But if he and Pie are scum partners, him putting a vote on me would result in me not being hammered for an extended period of time, which would out him and Pie as the scum team and town confirm you, me, and ceru.
Hm, WF's other game *did* have a vanilla and a negative utility role (Enabler)...
He had already soft claimed a protective. That would make him an unattractive NK target, so he already basically limited the pool within they would kill just as effectively as if he had out and claimed hider.
If I wanted to mislynch Pie this DP, why kill Wryly, who townread me and was willing to lynch Pie?
Hypothetically, because your scum team has a 1x Ninja that was already used, you knew that a Tracker or Watcher had to exist because you knew I was telling the truth, so you had to hunt that PR to make sure you didn't get caught in the kill.
Hypothetically, of course.
We have a whole dang Mafia segment of this website and still no ISO function?
Hypothetically, because your scum team has a 1x Ninja that was already used, you knew that a Tracker or Watcher had to exist because you knew I was telling the truth, so you had to hunt that PR to make sure you didn't get caught in the kill.
Hypothetically, of course.
Wouldn't it be easier to just figure out who she town read most and have that person carry out the kill if there are two scum? That would be much easier with a private line of communication through which we discussed reads. The whole thing is so convoluted. I could see claiming that I opened a line of communication to manipulate Wryly and gain information (which, this is wifom/selfpsych, but I would not do. Anyone who ever played scum with me knows how cautious I am). I couldn't see doing that and then killing her when she would be much more open to the mislynch plans that they're claiming that I had. It makes zero sense. You notice how they ascribe multiple contradictory motivations to everything I do? I'm manipulating Wryly but I can't control her and I killed her but she trusted me and told me info that had me kill her. They're just throwing everything at the wall and sees what sticks - they did the same thing to Earth and that's what clued me in to Pie being scum. His reasoning was not concise and internally consistent. To be the scum player they think I am I'd have to be a stark, raving schizophrenic.
Profile - Mafia - Comments is essentially an iso since we only have one game going at a time.
Also, in Pie's scenario town has:
Watcher/Tracker
Strengthener
Gravedigger
Jailer
Hider
Informed Townie
Dreamer
and to balance this, scum has... what?
My shitty ass role that lets me open a chat with a player?
A ninja?
Seems hella unbalanced.
Well, yes, in that scenario, 3 of Town's roles don't really do much (Hider, Informed Townie, Gravedigger), one has to get pretty lucky to be useful, (Strengthener), one has two roles that actively work against it (Watcher/Tracker hampered by Gravedigger and hypothetical Ninja, and the other two have drawbacks (Dreamer being 1-shot and stoppable in multiple ways, Jailkeeper roleblocking when protecting). If scum has a Ninja and possibly a Manipulative JOAT with Neighborize/Redirect/Roleblock, I think that might make reasonable sense.
To be blunt, my take at the moment is Rex/Vader, but I want to be sure of it because there's a reasonable shot of Pie/Thoth or Pie/Vader being the team as well and I haven't fully explored that world.
It’s literally Thoth, Rex, or Pie in the POE at this point. Whoever of Rex and Pie is scum is likely the locking the other.
So your perspective at this point is that Thoth is 100% evil?
Wouldn't it be easier to just figure out who she town read most and have that person carry out the kill if there are two scum?
The problem is that we have zero information beyond your word about how much you and Wryly were talking in the Neighbor chat. They didn't seem to think you were particularly stellar during later Day 2.
I could see claiming that I opened a line of communication to manipulate Wryly and gain information (which, this is wifom/selfpsych, but I would not do. Anyone who ever played scum with me knows how cautious I am).
In a scum!Rex world, the intention behind opening the comms line could be to gain information/manipulate, sure, but it's more likely the purpose was to pick someone widely townread who could "confirm" you. Anything after that would be gravy.
None of this requires Wryly telling scum!Rex that they're Watcher/Tracker, just an investigative hunt. Especially considering p62 today shows that Rex has at least thought about Wryly softing.
Although, the one flaw in this theory is the potential existence of a roleblocker/redirector. If you had that, why would you kill Wryly instead of just roleblocking or redirecting and hoping to instigate a wrong result?
Let me ask you this. What behavioral reason do you have to townread REF over me. I’ve literally led the entire game.
(I will say that this is not a good defense when we're currently on the verge of being swept.)
To be frank, I don't know exactly how holy people treat "confirmables" like Neighborizer, Fruit Vendor, etc. here. Rex says that it would be a "shitty ass role" for wolves, but it does seem like it could be useful- on some level, Rex got through Days 1 and 2 partly because of being a "confirmable" role that's "usually Town," right?
To be frank, I don't know exactly how holy people treat "confirmables" like Neighborizer, Fruit Vendor, etc. here
Is Pie dead after cheerfully leading town into disaster after disaster while I stood athwart his path, my 'confirmable role' fluttering proudly in the wind? No? That's how much this site cares about confirmable roles. Like everything else Pie has said this day, it's grandiose bullshit.
(Also, sorry if it looks like I'm picking on you specifically- it's moreso that you have more individual micro nits to pick at whereas I think the Pie case depends more on the macro "This gamestate is what things would look like if a scum were leading the game.")
