Barry Mafia - DP3

Which I am going to continue to pick at because I have no shame and asking questions is easy.

What was the deal with the Vader vote? You never explained it and it was clear that you wanted Pie dead more, but you never changed that vote even though you thought Pie might be "in reach." The votes never stacked beyond 1 until very late in the phase, so he could have been a viable wagon, so why not vote there?

What was the deal with the Vader vote?

It was a reaction test. He unfortunately logged out before I got any reaction from him.

You never explained it and it was clear that you wanted Pie dead more, but you never changed that vote even though you thought Pie might be "in reach." The votes never stacked beyond 1 until very late in the phase, so he could have been a viable wagon, so why not vote there?

I planned to come back later and build a case. Unfortunately, due to holiday callouts I had a huge chunk of work dumped in my lap and never got the time to. It was why I was MIA for the second part of the DP. I also took (and failed, apparently) the temperature of the room and thought that there was a large consensus that Pie was acting scummy from just about every player. The momentum behind the Earth wagon shocked me because I thought the case was particularly bad.

The fact that Wryly isn't here is one of my biggest annoyances, as she could have easily confirmed that reaction test, since we discussed and joked about it in our chat. If I were scum and for some reason took the risk of opening up a private chat with her, I'd want her here to be corroborating my story dammit.

Just over 37 hours remain in the DP.

He had already soft claimed a protective. That would make him an unattractive NK target, so he already basically limited the pool within they would kill just as effectively as if he had out and claimed hider.

Again, I had zero reason to out that I was a Hider there. Especially with a crazy nuisance role out there, I wasn’t going to. And in general I never out my role unless it’s a direct CC, which this clearly is not or I am at L-1.

Hypothetically, because your scum team has a 1x Ninja that was already used, you knew that a Tracker or Watcher had to exist because you knew I was telling the truth, so you had to hunt that PR to make sure you didn't get caught in the kill.

Hypothetically, of course.

Exactly my point. Why did they kill Luna? Because he knew that you were the Gravedigger, so logically they had to find the Tracker/Watcher. Who is more likely believe a Gravedigger? A person who is the Tracker or Watcher aka Luna. Why did he neighbor Wryly? Because Wryly also believed that you were the Gravedigger.

They covered their bases perfectly with their NP1 actions. And brownie points for recruiting the least experienced townie who they could manipulate as needed. Combine that with the fact that WF hates these confirmable roles = town logic just like me and Luna, it makes perfect sense for REF to be scum and have that role.

Wouldn't it be easier to just figure out who she town read most and have that person carry out the kill if there are two scum?

WIFOM, but I’ll indulge. If you don’t kill Wryly here. She outs tomorrow and there is a possible strong town block formed with Wryly/Ceru. And that is never a team, so whoever the last townie is would know who to support because Weyly as a town investigative is 99% town.

That would be much easier with a private line of communication through which we discussed reads. The whole thing is so convoluted. I could see claiming that I opened a line of communication to manipulate Wryly and gain information (which, this is wifom/selfpsych, but I would not do.

That’s just the brownie points. You had a 50/50 shot of “confirming” yourself to the Town Investigative role. That’s a massive hit. You weren’t even being considered DP2 because of it.

Anyone who ever played scum with me knows how cautious I am). I couldn't see doing that and then killing her when she would be much more open to the mislynch plans that they're claiming that I had.

Read my first paragraph. Wryly believed Ceru since DP1. You can’t beat that townblock. And you can’t argue against that townblock. The third townie would always vote with the investigative role.

It makes zero sense. You notice how they ascribe multiple contradictory motivations to everything I do? I'm manipulating Wryly but I can't control her and I killed her but she trusted me and told me info that had me kill her.

How is it contradictory lmao. This is just funny. Manipulating Wryly was the brownie points, but she publically still sussed you in DP2. So yes, you couldn’t control her. And again the reason for killing her doesn’t have motivation.

They're just throwing everything at the wall and sees what sticks - they did the same thing to Earth and that's what clued me in to Pie being scum. His reasoning was not concise and internally consistent. To be the scum player they think I am I'd have to be a stark, raving schizophrenic.

And yet you never responded to my inquiry. What was inconcise and inconsistent about what I said. It’s a fact that JK is a common fake claim for scum RBs. It’s a fact that he completely 180ed his read on me. It’s a fact that his character was the only one not in S1. It’s a fact that he JKed me even though he thought I was a town PR while leaving his top scumread in Ceru alone. So yes, I do think you’re a stark raving schizophrenic but for these reasons. Cause anyone with a brain would see all of those things and objectively conclude that yup Shining is scummy. Only someone with inside knowledge would read that say Shining is a town protective role so he must be town. And also notice how he’s blaming me for that lynch even though Vader started the wagon and he’s all kumbayah with him. Not only that, but the entire town was scum reading him.

Although, the one flaw in this theory is the potential existence of a roleblocker/redirector. If you had that, why would you kill Wryly instead of just roleblocking or redirecting and hoping to instigate a wrong result?

I just wrote about in my previous post. Wryly has been townreading Ceru since DP1. That’s a formidable town block once Wryly claims DP3. At that point, the third townie remaining knows exactly which side to back because Town Investigative Wryly is basically confirmed. So they were forced to kill Wryly there, with the icing being on the top being the fact that REF could say anything he wants about what was said in that PM.

To be frank, I don't know exactly how holy people treat "confirmables" like Neighborizer, Fruit Vendor, etc. here. Rex says that it would be a "shitty ass role" for wolves, but it does seem like it could be useful- on some level, Rex got through Days 1 and 2 partly because of being a "confirmable" role that's "usually Town," right?

People believe it like the gospel. Even the notion of confirmability is treated like the gospel. It’s very poor logic. I literally won a recent scum game where I claimed DP3 Innocent Child to avoid being lynched DP1. And we won that game lol. I know for a fact Whiteflame despises the whole confirmability stuff. Luna does as well. But the community as a whole firmly believes in it.

Exactly my point. Why did they kill Luna? Because he knew that you were the Gravedigger, so logically they had to find the Tracker/Watcher. Who is more likely believe a Gravedigger? A person who is the Tracker or Watcher aka Luna. Why did he neighbor Wryly? Because Wryly also believed that you were the Gravedigger.

Thanks for the confession, I was actually wondering why you killed him. I overlooked that fact.

Is Pie dead after cheerfully leading town into disaster after disaster while I stood athwart his path, my 'confirmable role' fluttering proudly in the wind? No? That's how much this site cares about confirmable roles. Like everything else Pie has said this day, it's grandiose bullshit.

A.) You magically showed up and were part of the Kohai lynch DP1, but fine.

B.) The lead wagoner wasn’t me. It was Vader, so you’re literally gaslighting

C.) All the logic pointed to Shining being scum there, which everyone here except you recognized

D.) You did nothing yesterday to stop the lynch on Shining. In fact you’ve been AWOL basically this entire game. It’s quite funny that you show up DP3 and have posted more than all of the previous 2 DPs.

It was a reaction test. He unfortunately logged out before I got any reaction from him.

Wow, are yall seriously believing this?

I planned to come back later and build a case. Unfortunately, due to holiday callouts I had a huge chunk of work dumped in my lap and never got the time to. It was why I was MIA for the second part of the DP. I also took (and failed, apparently) the temperature of the room and thought that there was a large consensus that Pie was acting scummy from just about every player. The momentum behind the Earth wagon shocked me because I thought the case was particularly bad.

Would you like to explain how the case was bad. Cause everyone was on the wagon basically.

Thanks for the confession, I was actually wondering why you killed him. I overlooked that fact.

Lmao projecting much?

And yet you never responded to my inquiry. What was inconcise and inconsistent about what I said. It’s a fact that JK is a common fake claim for scum RBs. It’s a fact that he completely 180ed his read on me. It’s a fact that his character was the only one not in S1. It’s a fact that he JKed me even though he thought I was a town PR while leaving his top scumread in Ceru alone. So yes, I do think you’re a stark raving schizophrenic but for these reasons. Cause anyone with a brain would see all of those things and objectively conclude that yup Shining is scummy. Only someone with inside knowledge would read that say Shining is a town protective role so he must be town. And also notice how he’s blaming me for that lynch even though Vader started the wagon and he’s all kumbayah with him. Not only that, but the entire town was scum reading him.

I've pointed it out to the people who matter. I know you're scum because I know that I'm town, I'm not going to waste time trying to convince you that you're scum. Not lynching the only claimed protective role without a counterclaim isn't inside knowledge, it's called not being retarded. I have to admit that I'm baffled that town even went through with that one and am a bit disappointed in them for doing so. It's part of why I don't really care about this game that much - if you could convince town to lynch their only claimed protective role DP2, you'll probably be able to convince them to lynch me as well. You can spin it however you want. And I know you want credit for not starting the wagon, but scum is much more likely to hop onto a wagon that somebody else started, that's not a point in your favor. I'm just satisfied with having sussed you out so early, que sera sera when it comes to if town make the right decision.

I've pointed it out to the people who matter. I know you're scum because I know that I'm town, I'm not going to waste time trying to convince you that you're scum. Not lynching the only claimed protective role without a counterclaim isn't inside knowledge, it's called not being retarded. I have to admit that I'm baffled that town even went through with that one and am a bit disappointed in them for doing so. It's part of why I don't really care about this game that much - if you could convince town to lynch their only claimed protective role DP2, you'll probably be able to convince them to lynch me as well.

Again. Vader, who you’re all kumbayah with led the wagon for…why? Claiming Jailkeeper lmfao. I lynched him for behavioral reasons. The fact you’re just ignoring this and pinning on me is just laughable.

You can spin it however you want. And I know you want credit for not starting the wagon, but scum is much more likely to hop onto a wagon that somebody else started, that's not a point in your favor. I'm just satisfied with having sussed you out so early, que sera sera when it comes to if town make the right decision.

So now we’re at: “oh Pie is scum because he hopped on a wagon.”

😂😂😂

Wanted to go over how much Pie misrepresented DP2.

So Earth immediately puts Pie on his scumread list.

Pie then puts pressure on him.

Pie wigs out about Shining's scum read of him. For the rest of the DP Pie is on his ass, first for reads then for his claim.

Supas original scum read is me, not Shining.

Over the course of the next few hours, with Pie guiding discussion, the lynch conversation dwindled to a group which includes Earth. Supa, who is busy, drops in and places a cursory vote on him after Thoth character clas the titular character.

This is what Pie calls Supa 'driving' the wagon. Supa is mostly AWOL from this point on, as am I. Pie is the dude who first scum read and put Earth under the microscope. He's the dude who was driving the lynch after Supa just dropped a vote (not even the first vote, as Pie had voted and unvoted him twice at this point).

Why the misrepresentation?

A tip for catching scum Pie: he uses a tactic that I call 'conversation pruning'. He replies prolifically to people's posts, but only to their weakest arguments, ommitting their strongest points. People reply to him again, get put on the defense, and the whole discussion is framed around their weakest points from then on out as the strongest ones fade from the public debate.

Look at the points hes ignored. If he and Thoth are both town, why is Thoth not voting for me? Why did he pretend that Earth roleblocking him should have proved that he 'couldn't commit the nightkill' and couldn't be scum, as if there aren't TWO scum? If a point does not fit Pie's narrative, he quietly drops it.

Wanted to go over how much Pie misrepresented DP2.

So Earth immediately puts Pie on his scumread list.

Lol, it’s a list of…3 people.

Pie then puts pressure on him.

That’s a convenient way of putting. Whoever is reading this. I urge you to go back and read DP1 and read what I say about Shining. I force him to do stuff to generate a read on him because otherwise he is impossible to read and is inactive. Which is basically what he was DP1.

Pie wigs out about Shining's scum read of him. For the rest of the DP Pie is on his ass, first for reads then for his claim.

Yes, again. Like I said. The only way to read Shining is to force him to participate. You also conveniently left out that I wanted Thoth to full claim first because he was inactive himself.

Supas original scum read is me, not Shining.

Over the course of the next few hours, with Pie guiding discussion, the lynch conversation dwindled to a group which includes Earth. Supa, who is busy, drops in and places a cursory vote on him after Thoth character clas the titular character.

”Pie guiding the discussion.” Lmfao where the fuck were you? You could’ve just as easily participated, but you were in the shadows pretty much the entire time until you have to leave your hole today.

This is what Pie calls Supa 'driving' the wagon. Supa is mostly AWOL from this point on, as am I. Pie is the dude who first scum read and put Earth under the microscope. He's the dude who was driving the lynch after Supa just dropped a vote (not even the first vote, as Pie had voted and unvoted him twice at this point).

Why the misrepresentation?

See this is what I mean by gaslighting. Nowhere did I ever say that I scumread Shining. You can go read it. Asking for a claim does not mean scumreading lol. I’ve always maintained that Shining is hard to read for me

And you can go back into my town games and see exactly that I purposely vote Shining and ask him questions to get him to participate so that I can develop a read on him. It doesn’t mean I necessarily scumread him. I started pushing him heavily when he revealed that he jailkept me and now scumread me. And when Ceru asked why Shining didn’t JK Ceru, it further proved that Shining was scum.

REF also conveniently leaves out that Vader left an ultimatum that he was voting for Shining because of his role and there were…you guessed it…crickets from REF for the entire DP.

A tip for catching scum Pie: he uses a tactic that I call 'conversation pruning'. He replies prolifically to people's posts, but only to their weakest arguments, ommitting their strongest points. People reply to him again, get put on the defense, and the whole discussion is framed around their weakest points from then on out as the strongest ones fade from the public debate.

Would definitely like to know what I’m missing. It’s a chore trying to get over all your gaslighting. Especially now that you have all the time in the world to respond to me.

Look at the points hes ignored. If he and Thoth are both town, why is Thoth not voting for me?

I don’t know why Thoth is voting for you. You can ask that Thoth question. But while we’re on this topic, why isn’t Vader voting for me?

Why did he pretend that Earth roleblocking him should have proved that he 'couldn't commit the nightkill' and couldn't be scum, as if there aren't TWO scum? If a point does not fit Pie's narrative, he quietly drops it.

Oh wow even more gaslighting. Ironically, this actually helps my case. It means that I didn’t execute the NK on NP1. That’s just a cold hard fact. That brings the odds of me being scum down compared to you.

Wanted to go over how much Pie misrepresented DP2.

So Earth immediately puts Pie on his scumread list.

Lol, it’s a list of…3 people.

Pie then puts pressure on him.

That’s a convenient way of putting. Whoever is reading this. I urge you to go back and read DP1 and read what I say about Shining. I force him to do stuff to generate a read on him because otherwise he is impossible to read and is inactive. Which is basically what he was DP1.

Pie wigs out about Shining's scum read of him. For the rest of the DP Pie is on his ass, first for reads then for his claim.

Yes, again. Like I said. The only way to read Shining is to force him to participate. You also conveniently left out that I wanted Thoth to full claim first because he was inactive himself.

Supas original scum read is me, not Shining.

Over the course of the next few hours, with Pie guiding discussion, the lynch conversation dwindled to a group which includes Earth. Supa, who is busy, drops in and places a cursory vote on him after Thoth character clas the titular character.

”Pie guiding the discussion.” Lmfao where the fuck were you? You could’ve just as easily participated, but you were in the shadows pretty much the entire time until you have to leave your hole today.

This is what Pie calls Supa 'driving' the wagon. Supa is mostly AWOL from this point on, as am I. Pie is the dude who first scum read and put Earth under the microscope. He's the dude who was driving the lynch after Supa just dropped a vote (not even the first vote, as Pie had voted and unvoted him twice at this point).

Why the misrepresentation?

See this is what I mean by gaslighting. Nowhere did I ever say that I scumread Shining. You can go read it. Asking for a claim does not mean scumreading lol. I’ve always maintained that Shining is hard to read for me

And you can go back into my town games and see exactly that I purposely vote Shining and ask him questions to get him to participate so that I can develop a read on him. It doesn’t mean I necessarily scumread him. I started pushing him heavily when he revealed that he jailkept me and now scumread me. And when Ceru asked why Shining didn’t JK Ceru, it further proved that Shining was scum.

REF also conveniently leaves out that Vader left an ultimatum that he was voting for Shining because of his role and there were…you guessed it…crickets from REF for the entire DP.

A tip for catching scum Pie: he uses a tactic that I call 'conversation pruning'. He replies prolifically to people's posts, but only to their weakest arguments, ommitting their strongest points. People reply to him again, get put on the defense, and the whole discussion is framed around their weakest points from then on out as the strongest ones fade from the public debate.

Would definitely like to know what I’m missing. It’s a chore trying to get over all your gaslighting. Especially now that you have all the time in the world to respond to me.

Look at the points hes ignored. If he and Thoth are both town, why is Thoth not voting for me?

I don’t know why Thoth is voting for you. You can ask that Thoth question. But while we’re on this topic, why isn’t Vader voting for me?

Why did he pretend that Earth roleblocking him should have proved that he 'couldn't commit the nightkill' and couldn't be scum, as if there aren't TWO scum? If a point does not fit Pie's narrative, he quietly drops it.

Oh wow even more gaslighting. Ironically, this actually helps my case. It means that I didn’t execute the NK on NP1. That’s just a cold hard fact. That brings the odds of me being scum down compared to you.

Wanted to go over how much Pie misrepresented DP2.

So Earth immediately puts Pie on his scumread list.

Lol, it’s a list of…3 people.

Pie then puts pressure on him.

That’s a convenient way of putting. Whoever is reading this. I urge you to go back and read DP1 and read what I say about Shining. I force him to do stuff to generate a read on him because otherwise he is impossible to read and is inactive. Which is basically what he was DP1.

Pie wigs out about Shining's scum read of him. For the rest of the DP Pie is on his ass, first for reads then for his claim.

Yes, again. Like I said. The only way to read Shining is to force him to participate. You also conveniently left out that I wanted Thoth to full claim first because he was inactive himself.

Supas original scum read is me, not Shining.

Over the course of the next few hours, with Pie guiding discussion, the lynch conversation dwindled to a group which includes Earth. Supa, who is busy, drops in and places a cursory vote on him after Thoth character clas the titular character.

”Pie guiding the discussion.” Lmfao where the fuck were you? You could’ve just as easily participated, but you were in the shadows pretty much the entire time until you have to leave your hole today.

This is what Pie calls Supa 'driving' the wagon. Supa is mostly AWOL from this point on, as am I. Pie is the dude who first scum read and put Earth under the microscope. He's the dude who was driving the lynch after Supa just dropped a vote (not even the first vote, as Pie had voted and unvoted him twice at this point).

Why the misrepresentation?

See this is what I mean by gaslighting. Nowhere did I ever say that I scumread Shining. You can go read it. Asking for a claim does not mean scumreading lol. I’ve always maintained that Shining is hard to read for me

And you can go back into my town games and see exactly that I purposely vote Shining and ask him questions to get him to participate so that I can develop a read on him. It doesn’t mean I necessarily scumread him. I started pushing him heavily when he revealed that he jailkept me and now scumread me. And when Ceru asked why Shining didn’t JK Ceru, it further proved that Shining was scum.

REF also conveniently leaves out that Vader left an ultimatum that he was voting for Shining because of his role and there were…you guessed it…crickets from REF for the entire DP.

A tip for catching scum Pie: he uses a tactic that I call 'conversation pruning'. He replies prolifically to people's posts, but only to their weakest arguments, ommitting their strongest points. People reply to him again, get put on the defense, and the whole discussion is framed around their weakest points from then on out as the strongest ones fade from the public debate.

Would definitely like to know what I’m missing. It’s a chore trying to get over all your gaslighting. Especially now that you have all the time in the world to respond to me.

Look at the points hes ignored. If he and Thoth are both town, why is Thoth not voting for me?

I don’t know why Thoth is voting for you. You can ask that Thoth question. But while we’re on this topic, why isn’t Vader voting for me?

Why did he pretend that Earth roleblocking him should have proved that he 'couldn't commit the nightkill' and couldn't be scum, as if there aren't TWO scum? If a point does not fit Pie's narrative, he quietly drops it.

Oh wow even more gaslighting. Ironically, this actually helps my case. It means that I didn’t execute the NK on NP1. That’s just a cold hard fact. That brings the odds of me being scum down compared to you.

Did not mean to post that 3 times lol

Rex, do you not realize that I have until the end of the day phase to cast my vote? Leaning a certain way at one moment does not mean I should go alea-iacta-est. If I were 98% sure that you were scum, why give scum the 2% chance to quickhammer, rather than waiting out the day phase in case somebody brings up something that changes my view? Fools rush in where angels fear to VTL. Plus, if I were scum, voting for you would come off as a transparent attempt to bait a townie into following my lead so my scummate could quickhammer you.

When every single lynch goes disastrously for town, it is because a competent scum player is driving them.

Bullshit. Bullshit bullshit bullshit. Town can and often does engage in autophagy. Never interrupt your opponent while they are making a mistake.

Thoth is also convienantly forgetting about No Ho Hank’s betrayal

He did not forget about it. He just ain't that big of a Barry loremonger.

”Pie guiding the discussion.” Lmfao where the fuck were you? You could’ve just as easily participated, but you were in the shadows pretty much the entire time until you have to leave your hole today.

In the world where you are scum, Rex has a valid point about conversation pruning. The fact that Rex was not around has nothing to do with you guiding the conversation. This comes off as deflection.

Rex's arguments all boil down to Pie having led town off a cliff. You know what? If Pie led us off a cliff, we deserve to lose for letting him do it. We all need to stop kowtowing to Pie's strong verbiage every game. Saying something abrasively does not make you right.

Plus, if I were scum, voting for you would come off as a transparent attempt to bait a townie into following my lead so my scummate could quickhammer you.

So scum you wouldn't be voting for me. Thanks for the... counterargument?

The bottom line here is fine. If you think I led town to their graves, fine. But that doesn’t mean I am scum.

It’s really rich coming from someone who was inactive for 97% of DP1 and 90% of DP2 that Pie is scum because he was the only one active and trying to scum hunt. Was I wrong? Clearly I was. That doesn’t mean I’m scum. This game is virtually identical to the one game where Luna and Mikal were scum. I led multiple lynches that turned out to be mislynches. And funny enough, Luna was relatively inactive and Mikal was completely inactive. They let it happen. They sat there and did nothing.

This is literally the exact same thing. REF has done nothing this entire game. He was completely fine with letting me lead the town. So it’s really really fascinating that he’s blaming me for leading town to their graves while he sat there and did nothing.

Votes:

Pie (1/3): RexFavilla

RexFavilla (1/3): Pie

Just under 22 hours left in the DP.

So I think it is as this point that we know Pie and Rex are probably 1 of 1 scum. We also know there is a combination of one of those on a team, because if they were both fighting, I don't think the DP would still be alive. The question now is, who is the most believable and viable?

Catching up on pings and then going to reread