Solo Leveling Mafia - DP1

Alr I'm done catching up.

VTL Thoth

claim

Thoth 6/9 - Kohai, Mestari, Lunatic, Alyssa, Rex, Mag1c

Kohai 2/9 - ILikePie5, wylted

Alyssa 1/9 - Helz

Idea: If you vote, you update the vote count

Were you Xavionder on MU?

I found an account named Helz but all the games on it are from 2015-2018. So I didn't bother skimming them.

There's too fucking many of you and I'm too busy. Why did I sign up for this.

Anyway, I don't really get the Mestari wagon. We had like 2 wagons recently that blew up in town's faces just because a townie was obstinate. I slightly town Mestari. I don't remember how he plays, but I have a good gut read on him and we can always revisit him later. Lunatic and Wylted are hard town. Still not done reading

The Mes wagon was just hot air and tone policing, not that Mes's tone doesn't by nature instigate and incite.

I'm always on the fence on the notion of tone policing. On the one hand, tone should not affect argument analysis. On the other hand, pricks shouldn't expect to be pricks and never have it inconvenience them.

Yeah, you got me there. I specifically remembered Helz saying in one of the Mafia channels in the DebateCraft server that he knew Mestari from MU and thought he was really good, but it looks like my brain made that up. I think I mixed it up with where Helz said that he himself had devoted a bunch of time to studying Mafia theory. All these (from my perspective) newcomers get jumbled together in my mind.

This just isn't sitting well with me. I could more easily believe you just made an assumption. I'm debating whether or not it's such a poor recovery that it pushes into townfumble territory, but regardless, I'd like a character claim -- and no, I won't push for a full claim.

Regarding the actual sus being thrown at me, there's a pretty clear person that's being left off the list of people who's familiar with Mestari on a mafia level and a personal level that matches me (which I hinted at in #386, though I didn't spell it out to not provide Thoth with a get-out-of-jail-free card in case he is scum). Mikal (i.e. the person hosting this game) is just as familiar with Mestari as I am, both on a mafia level and a personal level (arguable as to who knows Mestari better per se, but it's a hair that's not worth splitting for this context). All it'd take is one question in Thoth's role pm of "Hey who's this Mestari guy who's blowing up the discord with sex jokes" for some level of understanding to be imparted. So sure, if Thoth flips scum then I could be scum by association, but there are other explanations to this.

In no world does scum!Thoth learn this info from Mikal and still say he just got confused about something he heard from Helz. He would just have been honest and said he learned it from Mikal. Problem solved. This isn't any kind of alternate explanation imo.

For the record, I feel I have been quite civilized this game. Also I don't really care if Thoth claims. I'd be down to lynch with no claim.

Is Quite Civilized in the room with us right now

I kid; I'd like to see you in more games and I'm only disappointed you didn't get to meet Magoroth

You've not seen be in a game with FT. I've not even properly insulted anyone!

He liked to boast that he was the only player who could catch me when I was scum. He likes to remind people that he has a 100% accuracy catching me when I'm scum, even. What he always left out was that he also scum read me 100% of the time I was town. An absolute twat, that one.

Bit of downtime at work before I have to drive home. Doing my bathroom break then reading

 I'd be down to lynch with no claim.

We're mafia soulmates.

Any other thoughts besides wanting to lynch Thoth?

Yes and I'm working on typing those

ts is mentally exhausting bruh

Well yes. I am very autistic and communication is something of a struggle for me. Duno whats AI about that but it is a thing.

Oh dear god no. Fucking AI is a norm in mafia here? Fuck my life.

Im going to resist saying what I want to about your AI shrink and ask that you keep it out of my life.

that's just a wylted thing. not a norm

I will say one more thing on this. Yes my writing style may be contrived. For some TMI I have done years of speech therapy and while just speaking and connecting with people may be something natural for you its something I had to work hard to get where I am. Its not a choice on my part. It is who I am. It causes me problems but its not something I can change. I would appreciate it if you left how I speak alone even if it bothers you.

Fair. I am catching up on the thread now

I am around. Feel free to ask me anything

I will say one more thing on this. Yes my writing style may be contrived. For some TMI I have done years of speech therapy and while just speaking and connecting with people may be something natural for you its something I had to work hard to get where I am. Its not a choice on my part. It is who I am. It causes me problems but its not something I can change. I would appreciate it if you left how I speak alone even if it bothers you.

That is awesome. That's such an incredibly difficult obstacle to overcome. You are wildly impressive for accomplishing ever you have.

Say somethingggggg

Ignore wylted, he was hunting with dowsing rods on that one

As a rule of thumb, don't assume anything Wylted says or does is the norm for anyone other than him.

Its cool. Im not upset about it. Just establishing healthy boundaries. It was a very weird line they took there but they are essentially confirmed town and even if they were not I do not see much alignment indicative about it. They do not know me and were not trying to offend. And I am quite honestly use to getting some amount of shit for being how I am.

I played on maybe 2 hydras on MU and smurfed a few times but Xavionder is not one of them. My games there will be older ones.

If you just want to know how I think here is a draft of my thoughts on scum hunting from years back breaking down fundamentals. May be of more use to you than digging for a game to grab meta tells. https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/45881-Helz-guide-to-improving-as-a-player-Part-2-Fundamentals-of-Scum-Hunting

So I am going to unpack this rather grudgingly. I dislike this entire line of subject but none the less I have drawn conclusions on it that I do not even like voicing. Every bit of the situation hits way too close to OOG and angle shooting all around for my taste but sense its a thing here is my take-

Mestari- So they show up in a discord and ask publicly what a Godfather is after roles go out. I will withhold what I think about them doing that but it happened and its been dragged into this game. A few thoughts on that-

1- There are mistakes and there is intentionally baiting. Any experienced Mafia player knows what a Godfather is which is why I see this as intentionally baiting. Its just to flagrant to be a slip imo.

2- Would a player do this as Mafia? I think no. It would be viewed as hard gamethrowing in most places to OOG leak their alignment and it makes little sense to do as mafia. While I am an insane enough person to actually use lynch bait plays as mafia and recently did so in a game (Lost wolves existed and I needed to be suspected just enough) its just not something players do. Assuming this was intentional this makes me feel they are town

3- Host meta- How would a host handle giving someone a Godfather role and publicly voicing it in open OOG pre-game chat? I would expect the host to immediately reroll the game and swat them on the nose. A town doing it would probably get an eye roll and a swat on the nose. One of these two things occurred.

These things said, For reasoning I absolutely hate exists in my head I believe Mestari is simply town. They did a stupid thing but it logically indicates (between their actions and the hosts reaction) that they are just town.

For Wylted they claimed Guild leader and have not been counter claimed. Not only that but nobody has pushed them on it. If they were a mafia claiming as much to out a guild leader I would expect either the real 2nd guild leader or at least one of their recruits to be gunning at them hard. This is not happening at all which makes me feel they are as close to confirmed town as you can get without mech.

For Lunatic they are mech confirmed town to me. I did get mech confirmation with a recruitment attempt and the same additional reasoning as I have for Wylted applies here for those who do not have my mech reasoning (although you can apply the additional bit of me confirming their action)

Wylted- Guild leader (with no counter claim)

Lunatic- Guild leader (Confirmed mechanically to me with a recruitment attempt)

Mestari- Absurd angleshooty nonsense resulting in a hard town lean

If these concepts are held by the player base we are in a situation (removing yourself) where we eliminate in a pool of 9 town and 4 mafia giving us 30% odds if we just RNG it. This is before considering for balance purposes that a third party is rather likely. Maybe some kinda benign or maybe some kinda killer to up the KPN. Add that and odds go up in our favor.

I will bring up that unless some unwritten rule exists I do not know about a no-lynch on a day with no factional kill is an option. Its also important to consider that just because N1 has no factional does not necessary mean that mafia does not have some other kill utility.

Now on the subject of guilds to unpack a few things there-

1- I think its an awful idea for guild leaders to reveal who they are recruiting. Effectively this translates to outing the towns Power Roles to the mafia. We should not be doing this. People should not be asking for this and it very much caught my attention that it has been pushed. Huge advantage to Mafia for knowing who has activated power roles and very little to gain for town outside of avoiding cross recruitment.

2- My 2 cents is that at least N1 guilds should recruit. More PR = better. There is the paranoid part of my head that questions if Mafia must also be recruited to activate their powers (which would be a super cool dynamic) but I suspect its not the case.

3- I would encourage players in guilds not to out their PR. Just no reason to do so in a chat that could have mafia in it until you have some result worth discussing.

Just my thoughts on whats optimal there. I think this is solid reasoning everyone can get behind and I am rather critical of some of the pushes I have seen to out who is recruited and such.

I will bring up that unless some unwritten rule exists I do not know about a no-lynch on a day with no factional kill is an option. Its also important to consider that just because N1 has no factional does not necessary mean that mafia does not have some other kill utility.

You think that mafia might be able to kill even if they don't have access to the factional NK? I think that's highly unlikely tbh.