Solo Leveling - Day phase 3

I really think people should focus on this specific aspect of ILikePie's reaction to Rex's claim-

They believe Rex is not lying. Yet they want the person they do not think is lying to give a full claim before they so much as reveal if they visited / who they visited. Those two concepts do not logically add up. They would add up 'if' Pie thought Rex was scum faking a claim. But they do not. 

I think it’s very revealing about what happened last night. At best it basically outs a member of scum. It will all make sense. Just trust me.

While at the same time they have motive if scum in nailing down exactly what the information against them is so they can counter it. I strongly feel Pie should be revealing some bits of information before Rex. To be specific-

There are bigger things at play than you know. Let him claim, and then I will reveal all, because my theory leads me to believe something

1- Who did Pie Visit if anyone (no need to claim action type yet)

2- Does Pie have any sort of Miller function

3- Was Pie told they were bussed or anything of the sort

Pie should clarify these things before Rex gives more information imo.

I'm interested in Pie claiming before Rex. Most notably because it seems clear to me that Pie knew Rex visited him prior to Rex outing.

I had a hunch.

I'm not a fan of Shining's claim either. Is there a reason for Shining to be a lightning rod?

He still hasn’t said a justification

At this point my POE is Pie, Shining, Kohai, Awesome, Helz. I actually like Awesome's claim. Helz is more likely 3P than mafia.

Character and justification lol? I’ll explain why this is hilarious to me after you full claim

Nah. Why the push for an insane amount of claims after we just bagged scum back to back? Did you guys use up all your fake claims desperately trying to keep them alive? Trying to get as many people as possible to claim before you have to, to reduce the risk of a counterclaim? There's literally no reason for me to make this up as scum, I see no reason to make it even easier for the remaining scum to find a safe fakeclaim.

Nah. Why the push for an insane amount of claims after we just bagged scum back to back? Did you guys use up all your fake claims desperately trying to keep them alive? Trying to get as many people as possible to claim before you have to, to reduce the risk of a counterclaim? There's literally no reason for me to make this up as scum, I see no reason to make it even easier for the remaining scum to find a safe fakeclaim.

Okay let me ask you one question then. Did you tell your guild that you were investigating me last night?

The problem is that I do not trust you. I have no reason to.

Explain to me why it possibly makes sense for Rex to reveal information instead of you revealing information first?

Rex has no motive to lie about you while you have every reason in the world to lie about your situation and wait to discover exactly what you need to lie about. You stalling is just keeping your options open which makes sense. But I am nailing that down and pushing the town to see exactly what you are up to if you are scum.

I am trying to slow walk the information needed to solve in case this is a TvT situation but if you do not claim I am 100% down to see you swing. There is no harm in you confirming if you are not miller and if you were not bussed and if you did visit a specific player or not. If you have something damning you can reveal to shove Rex lets unpack that after you clarify your mech or give a damn good reason that they should claim first.

"Trust me" is not a valid response that will be considered.

The problem is that I do not trust you. I have no reason to. 

I have no reason to say I can prove my innocence if I can’t prove it.

Explain to me why it possibly makes sense for Rex to reveal information instead of you revealing information first?

Because I can prove my innocence. He cannot.

Rex has no motive to lie about you while you have every reason in the world to lie about your situation and wait to discover exactly what you need to lie about. You stalling is just keeping your options open which makes sense. But I am nailing that down and pushing the town to see exactly what you are up to if you are scum.

If I’m lying about proving my innocence, you lynch me. It’s just simple.

I am trying to slow walk the information needed to solve in case this is a TvT situation but if you do not claim I am 100% down to see you swing. There is no harm in you confirming if you are not miller and if you were not bussed and if you did visit a specific player or not. If you have something damning you can reveal to shove Rex lets unpack that after you clarify your mech or give a damn good reason that they should claim first.

"Trust me" is not a valid response that will be considered. 

Then you’re just dumb because I’m telling you I can prove my innocence. You’re going to look silly probably in a few hours.

If you flip inno tomorrow, then we can investigate my guild for possible leaks/meddling.

If I’m lying about proving my innocence, you lynch me. It’s just simple.

Let’s put it this way. I’m telling you that I can prove my innocence, and if I don’t, you can lynch me.

There are only 2 scum left. If you think I’m doing this to develop fake claims

1) You’d have to think I’d be this bad to butcher them for everyone (I’m not)

2) I can only get one person’s claim with literally a million left

Actually we don't know who is in your guild, Rex. If you die tonight we create a messy situation.

I am fine with looking silly. I get shit wrong all the time.

But here is the thing- 'If' you are town there is absolutely zero reason you can not come out and say "I am not a miller" and "I did not get feedback that I was witched or bussed"

I can at least see reasoning to avoid confirming if you visited and who you visited. But you avoiding confirming those two factors just looks scummy as fuck to me. I do not see any world where town would not own up to that and as this drags on you look worse and worse to me.

If you flip inno tomorrow, then we can investigate my guild for possible leaks/meddling.

Im telling you that I don’t even need to be lynched lol. Just say yes/no and I will reveal everything

Pie, how can you prove your innocence?

I am fine with looking silly. I get shit wrong all the time.

But here is the thing- 'If' you are town there is absolutely zero reason you can not come out and say "I am not a miller" and "I did not get feedback that I was witched or bussed"

I was not told I’m a miller. Idk what Witched means, and bus drives aren’t notified

I can at least see reasoning to avoid confirming if you visited and who you visited. But you avoiding confirming those two factors just looks scummy as fuck to me. I do not see any world where town would not own up to that and as this drags on you look worse and worse to me. 

Pie, how can you prove your innocence?

I literally will. Have a little faith. If I don’t prove myself by the end of the day, lynch me.

Rex essentially confirmed the the guild knew he was investigating you, so let's move on to the next step of this process.

I’d rather lynch shinning before I lynch pie. Shinning’s claim is Bs. Can’t think of a justification and didn’t even know the name of the role.

If by EOD tomorrow Pie hasn’t proven his innocence we lynch him

Rex essentially confirmed the the guild knew he was investigating you, so let's move on to the next step of this process.

Let him confirm. Put it in writing.

Im obviously trying to get you to clarify if you have any reason to believe that an alignment cop result would be altered because of whatever you are or if a tracker/detective/motion detector/ anything else looking at movement has a reason to be wrong.

Confirming you do not have any reason to believe so now before Rex reveals narrows down the potential defenses you could have post claim which is what I am looking for.

Pie says he can prove by EOD today. Let's solve the PoE today.

What I am trying to avoid is the basic line of a player claiming a red check. Then Pie demanding specifics so they can go "Oh, well your alignment cop is wrong because I have a miller function" or "Your tracker result is wrong because I was swapped last night" etc.

Pie directly claiming if they visited and who at the very least is a step in the right direction. I am not even asking what they did or what their role is.

Pie is claiming that someone in Rex's guild interfered with the results. If he claims Miller after asking if anyone in the guild knew about the investigation, we lynch him. We are trying too hard to be fancy here.

My entire issue centers around the fact I can not place myself in Pies shoes and understand a town motive.

They feel they can prove themselves. Ok.. sure? But why refuse to reveal bits of information that nail down their potential of defense if they are this totally confirmable townie?

Then there is demanding a full claim from Rex. Why a full claim? Why not specifically ask for the information about the peek? It would slightly make sense if they thought Rex was lying but they have openly said they do not. This is a very weird stance that also does not make sense for town.

Now they are going after Rex's guild members. What would that possibly have to do with them if they are some confirmed townie that can prove themselves? The only thing that does is shade the potential that they were framed in some way.

To be blunt I am not able to put myself in their shoes and say "As town this makes sense to do" in multiple respects. While I can place myself in their shoes and say "As scum this absolutely makes sense"

Thats my take.

If they are so confirmable town they are free to do so before days end and all but man.. They are doing some weird bullshit if they are that I do not understand the logic of and they are not doing much to explain if I am just the stupid one here missing something.

Sometimes it's better to watch than direct. If you dictate every action and the order in which the actions are taken, you put a stranglehold on the space in which mafia can make an error.

While I do agree and I have strongly avoided saying quite a bit this game I am also pointing out very simple contradictions.

'If' Pie can hard confirm why not clarify miller/redirection/movement?

'If' Pie does not think Rex is lying why demand their info first?

'If' Pie even suspected Rex why demand a full claim?

'If' Pie is all confirmable why demand info on what is known to their guild?

None of these factors make sense to me questioning if Pie is town while they all make sense for a scum play. Im calling them out to push for pressure that Pie outs information before demanding information thats potentially damaging to the town (and serves no purpose to solve Pie) for Rex to out.

I think the trains today should be ILovePie vs Shining with their awful role claim.

I decline to comment further.

While I do agree and I have strongly avoided saying quite a bit this game I am also pointing out very simple contradictions.

'If' Pie can hard confirm why not clarify miller/redirection/movement?

'If' Pie does not think Rex is lying why demand their info first?

'If' Pie even suspected Rex why demand a full claim?

'If' Pie is all confirmable why demand info on what is known to their guild?

None of these factors make sense to me questioning if Pie is town while they all make sense for a scum play. Im calling them out to push for pressure that Pie outs information before demanding information thats potentially damaging to the town (and serves no purpose to solve Pie) for Rex to out.

I think the trains today should be ILovePie with the red check vs Shining with their awful role claim.

Fair. Apparently my internet is doing things and I believe we have hit a point where more conversation is unproductive from my side. Others can look at the situation and weigh in as they see fit on either slot but independent of the poor town positioning in earlier day phases we are in a good situation for today with two strong options.

Im obviously trying to get you to clarify if you have any reason to believe that an alignment cop result would be altered because of whatever you are or if a tracker/detective/motion detector/ anything else looking at movement has a reason to be wrong.

It has nothing to do with me